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Non-resistance is Salvation; Resistance is Ruin.

I think we need to keep this in mind when we attend the Convention in September. One of our goals is to get Ron Paul elected, however in the big picture of things, we have a greater goal, which is to change our society. We will lose all ground if our movement turns violent, so I am preaching again for us to remain calm, get involved in local politics if Ron Paul does not get elected, and let's make this movement work.
R3VOLution stands for LOVE not evol (evil).
grant

"One man may not kill. If he kills a fellow-creature, he is a murderer. If two, ten, a hundred men do so, they, too, are murderers. But a government or a nation may kill as many men as it chooses, and that will not be murder, but a great and noble action. Only gather the people together on a large scale, and a battle of ten thousand men becomes an innocent action. But precisely how many people must there be to make it so?--that is the question. One man cannot plunder and pillage, but a whole nation can. But precisely how many are needed to make it permissible? Why is it that one man, ten, a hundred, may not break the law of God, but a great number may?"

Non-resistance is Salvation; Resistance is Ruin.

It is incomparably less dangerous to act justly than unjustly, to submit to injuries than to resist them with violence, less dangerous even in one's relations to the present life. If all men refused to resist evil by evil our world would be happy.

Q. But so long as only a few act thus, what will happen to them?

A. If only one man acted thus, and all the rest agreed to crucify him, would it not be nobler for him to die in the glory of non-resisting love, praying for his enemies, than to live to wear the crown of Caesar stained with the blood of the slain? However, one man, or a thousand men, firmly resolved not to oppose evil by evil are far more free from danger by violence than those who resort to violence, whether among civilized or savage neighbors. The robber, the murderer, and the cheat will leave them in peace, sooner than those who oppose them with arms, and those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword, but those who seek after peace, and behave kindly and harmlessly, forgiving and forgetting injuries, for the most part enjoy peace, or, if they die, they die blessed. In this way, if all kept the ordinance of non-resistance, there would obviously be no evil nor crime. If the majority acted thus they would establish the rule of love and good will even over evil doers, never opposing evil with evil, and never resorting to force. If there were a moderately large minority of such men, they would exercise such a salutary moral influence on society that every cruel punishment would be abolished, and violence and feud would be replaced by peace and love. Even if there were only a small minority of them, they would rarely experience anything worse than the world's contempt, and meantime the world, though unconscious of it, and not grateful for it, would be continually becoming wiser and better for their unseen action on it. And if in the worst case some members of the minority were persecuted to death, in dying for the truth they would have left behind them their doctrine, sanctified by the blood of their martyrdom. Peace, then, to all who seek peace, and may overruling love be the imperishable heritage of every soul who obeys willingly Christ's word, "Resist not evil."

ADIN BALLOU.

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Not Good

In God We Trust!

This whole post is most troubling and should come to a hault.
Let us talk about what needs to be done.
We need to pray about all our difficulties and trials that lie ahead.
He who alone made the 1st revolution a success, must be the same One to lead us to victory in this revolution. All this arguing about force vs non- force is very unfruitful and needless. If we think we can do anything without Him, then indeed we are doomed to fail.
The most powerful force on earth.......prayer!

" In Thee O Lord do I put my trust " ~ Psalm 31:1~

FRN protest

Take the income tax bribe that George bush wants to give you to stimulate the Chinese economy, withdraw the money out of the bank in Federal Reserve notes and burn them. You will be following in Ron Paul's example of not accepting government subs and you will also be making the dollar stronger.

Not enough agents to round us all up.

Perhaps the week of the Convention, every Ron Paul supporter could call in sick, or close their business in support of Ron Paul for President. For the less motivated they could stock up on food for the week and stay home refusing to go anywhere and not have to buy gas. Endless number of ways to protest, if enough people do it they certainly will not be able to build FEMA camps fast enough.

finally!!!!!!!!!!

we agree on something...hallelujah ! yes, yes, i totally think this is a good idea, lets one of us start a thread tomorrow to see if the idea takes off,,,,deal?

Here you go JeffH.

First I don't believe that the use of force to defend youself and our country is anything like the agression on a populace that never made so much as a verbal threat towards us. Obviously they are all different in nature.
What I implied was that many people claim that Christ justifies the use of force to kill someone in self defense.
Many claim that Christ justifies people to kill in defense of one's country to be free.
And George Bush uses the Christian doctrine as justification for killing people to bring them freedom.
Personally I don't believe killing in any form is a doctrine of Christ, not willing to kill to prove my point, but this is what I believe.
grant

You seem to suffer from selective memory syndrome.

Here, let me help. You said in a post below...I'll bold the part that I've referenced for to assist your memory a bit...

"If nothing else than use my post as an exercise.
On June 3rd, 2008 iehuvihs says:
Perhaps you are right, perhaps I am working for uncle George...oh, I mean President Bush. Only thing is, he uses the exact same arguements you sustain. He supports the exact same "Christian" doctrine of justifiable war.
I don't, but I would think I should have the right to present an alternative."

So, you made a direct comparison to what I've said and what President Bush has done. You're entitled to your jackboot licking opinion, but suffice to say you've made it perfectly clear what side of the defense of American liberty you're on.

We're watching you. Thanks for making it easy to pick you out.

.

.

"The body is but a vessel for the soul,
A puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny.
And lo, the body is not eternal,
For it must feed on the flesh of others,
Lest it return to the dust whence it came.
Therefore the soul deceives and despises."

Nonresistence = FEMA Gas Chamber

Resistence = Liberty

Even Jesus knew there was a time for action. History has taught us this lesson over and over and over and over....

"The body is but a vessel for the soul,
A puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny.
And lo, the body is not eternal,
For it must feed on the flesh of others,
Lest it return to the dust whence it came.
Therefore the soul deceives and despises."

Thank you Chaplain Steve.

I certain don't claim to have all the answer either, but I am willing to explore.

Here is the difference...

I meant to post this thread here...sorry for the confusion!

An abortion clinic is a place someone has the choice to go in and use their services. This certainly does not justify an armed response. However, if someone takes your daughter and forcibly gives her an abortion, you have a right (nay...a DUTY) to respond with force.

Just to clarify my earlier point. And thank you for continuing in this thread. Despite those who would rather you stopped talking, I admire and support debate and free speech. Keep it up.

Until the Election is Won!
Chaplain Steve
Ron Paul - Lion of the Constitution

Until the Election is Won!
Chaplain Steve
Ron Paul - Lion of the Constitution

If you don't want to help, can you please get out of the way?

Tell me how someone who calls themself Pro-Life, to save a child's life can blow up an abortion clinic or shoot a doctor. According to your definition of saving an innocent person from death, they are just doing the right thing and I am wrong for not shooting the abortion doctor. In the same way I will not kill someone in the name of freedom or to "save the country", and I certainly don't need you to kill for me to save the country, since I don't want to be in your debt. So I prefer to try and educate alternatives, people have the right to choose . I don't believe all government employees support FEMA camps.
Here are some options for them to protest, non-violently.
Selective refusal of assistance by government aides
Blocking of lines of command and information
Stalling and obstruction
General administrative noncooperation
Judicial noncooperation
Deliberate inefficiency and selective noncooperation by enforcement agents
Mutiny

You're so far off base you're not even on the field anymore.

As a matter of fact, you're so far off base you're not even in the parking lot...across the street...down the road...in a different town than the game.

You draw all these parallels that only you can see, then refuse to debate them or even explain how you arrived at such conclusions. It's childish, and only serves to emphasize the true nature of your posts.

Answer my question. How is calling for defending ourselves and our country anything like calling for and carrying out a war of agression against a populace that never made so much as a verbal threat? Did you miss that question below after you posted your drivel? Or perhaps you missed it when I reposted it....twice. Nahhh! I don't think so. I think you're a chickenshit with a not so hidden agenda who can't support your words with anything even coming close to common sense.

We're watching you and the people like you.

Here is the difference

An abortion clinic is a place someone has the choice to go in and use their services. This certainly does not justify an armed response. However, if someone takes your daughter and forcibly gives her an abortion, you have a right (nay...a DUTY) to respond with force.

Just to clarify my earlier point. And thank you for continuing in this thread. Despite those who would rather you stopped talking, I admire and support debate and free speech. Keep it up.

Until the Election is Won!
Chaplain Steve
Ron Paul - Lion of the Constitution

Until the Election is Won!
Chaplain Steve
Ron Paul - Lion of the Constitution

There are many ways to bring government under control.

Nonviolent revolution, for example, tax strikes, boycotts, mass refusal to obey government orders or a general strike – especially in arms factories.

Maybe you

missed the part where the government has turned tanks on it's own people. HHHMMM ? Lets see, Waco ( full of women and kids who were shot and gassed AND burned alive ), Ruby Ridge ( women and kids and the dog killed ) and those pesky little tax people Ed and Linda Brown amongst many others, yeah hold a tax strike and see what happens. They even pick up the protesters.How many people do we really know about, that's been missing or dissapeared? Do we really know about ALL OF THEM? They have tanks and riot gear and plenty of ammo, since they are buying it all up at the gun shows. They have weapons we could only dream about. They also have camps ready for the 750,000 on the terrorist watch list INSIDE the USA. Guess what? You and I paid for it with our slave dollars. They slave us in a system of which there is no escape and they bleed us dry.They have been gearing up for this for a long time now. This is the plan, a one world government in which the playing field is leveled. This is the plan. Try to boycott and arms factory and see what happens. It wont be pretty. I wish I could live in your world just to escape. I know the truth and let me tell you, it's something you wont be able to escape for long.

JUST STAY HOME. Like I mentioned before somewhere here...

My husband suggested that EVERYONE stay home and not go to work for just one week. (Personally, I think 3 days would be enough) WE the People control things, most just don't really believe that now. For it to work everyone would need to participate, but there is no single non-violent action that would send so powerful a message. I don't mean to stop emergency services, but there would certainly be some down time for them if everyone just stayed home. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Talk about a Strike!!!

Vali

'...truth is loved in such a way that those who love some other thing want it to be the truth, and precisely because they do not wish to be deceived, are unwilling to be convinced that they are deceived." --- St. Augustine, Confessions (10:23), 5th c.

'...truth is loved in such a way that those who love some other thing want it to be the truth, and precisely because they do not wish to be deceived, are unwilling to be convinced that they are deceived." --- St. Augustine, Confessions (10:23), 5th c.

vali

a most excellent idea. what if we were to time this with the freedom march in july for those who can not attend?

jeez, maybe we can just vote

jeez, maybe we can just vote them out of office,,,,lol

Wow!!! I think you're onto something solid there!

And better yet, lets all run for office.

Isn't this thread fun?

Sticking your head in the sand and talking out of what's....

...left sticking up in the air don't cut it.

Explain how my belief that we ought to use force to defend ourselves and our country if necessary is anything like calling for and waging a war of agression on a populace that never made so much as a verbal threat towards us.

Explain it. Try. I need a good laugh.

It is our duty to resist tyranny!

Fail not in your duties to fight tyranny or you will be slaves.
The peaceful revolution has alot more juice in her yet.
Hell there were ten years of begging england for redress before people started to really take action.
Although if we wait ten years I fear it will be too late!
Prepare for the worst and pray for the best.
I also believe in peace but I will have liberty in this life or it is all for nill!
Give me liberty or give me death!

Opresso De Liber
Life,Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness!
Conscious of Our Creator and Source of our Liberties.

I have never said you don't have the right to use defense.

There are some libertarians who say that no one should employ violence even in defending himself against violence. However, even such Tolstoyans, or "absolute pacifists," would concede the defender's right to employ defensive violence and would merely urge him not to exercise that right. They, therefore, do not disagree with your proposition. In the same way, a temperance advocate would not challenge a man's right to drink liquor, only his wisdom in exercising that right.

I have never said you don't have the right to use defense.

There are some libertarians who say that no one should employ violence even in defending himself against violence. However, even such Tolstoyans, or "absolute pacifists," would concede the defender's right to employ defensive violence and would merely urge him not to exercise that right. They, therefore, do not disagree with your proposition. In the same way, a temperance advocate would not challenge a man's right to drink liquor, only his wisdom in exercising that right.

Libertarian Spirituality

I will take responsibility for my soul, thanks. How about you do the same? If you feel you're being called to do this, knock yourself out. My "moral compass" tells me that the masses of people who have been lied and manipulated to such an extent that some unkind folks now call the "sheep" are not the folks to turn over the reins of society to.
Separating the church and state - it is a beautiful thing. Separating the church and your spirituality is even better, I highly recommend it -especially in the current political / religious situation.

Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.

If nothing else than use my post as an exercise.

Perhaps you are right, perhaps I am working for uncle George...oh, I mean President Bush. Only thing is, he uses the exact same arguements you sustain. He supports the exact same "Christian" doctrine of justifiable war.
I don't, but I would think I should have the right to present an alternative.

merely attending church

or mouthing the words does not make one a Christian. bush is skull and bones,,,skull and bones worship lucifer...do some homework

Don't think so

Your arguments are so weak it's pitiful. It's like debating with a child, really.

You try to draw a parallel between the reasons I give for calling for patriots and Christians to defend themselves and the reasons Pres. Bush uses for killing innocent people in foreign lands? How exactly does that work? Please point out the similarities you see, so we can all laugh at you at the same time.

C'mon iv, you mental munchkin! Respond!

Respond. Tell me how calling for the use of force to defend oneself and one's country against force is anything like killing innocent people who never even made so much as a verbal threat. Explain it. Try. I need a good laugh.

Explain it. I dare you to.

This message is great!! for

This message is great!! for those againt RP and the r3volution.

Here we go with the "Jesus" stuff again....

....another poster here is correct, that it's a matter of what you believe to be moral. If you feel that your absolute best effort is to lay down on the RR tracks and get squished by the neocons that don't give a shit about you and your beliefs...well, that's your perogative. Leave ALL of your religious material out of this forum....it's pointless and to me, offensive. Remember the separation of church and state. We're talking about government here....or lack there-of...this is no place for religious sermons.
I for one, will be spending my stimulous check on weaponry and ammo. I hope you're getting better prepared for what's comming to this once-great nation of ours.
------------------
BC
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!

------------------
BC
Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry