I am so SICK of people spreading lies about the income tax

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Just when I start believing that it is unconstitutional, my friend sends me this and brings me back to earth:

http://webskeptic.wikidot.com/zeitgeist-income-tax

You can't believe anyone anymore...

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Income taxes were ruled

Income taxes were ruled unconstitutional in the late 1800s. It's interesting that Income Tax was started the same year as the Federal Reserve. We did not have a federal income tax in America until the year 1913.

I've read that the 16th Amendment was not properly ratified.

Also consider all the ex IRS agents who have been speaking out against the IRS saying that income tax is not constitutional. One ex-IRS agent, after retiring to spend more time with her family, was trying to win a $50,000 prize by pointing out the law which requires Americans to pay tax on their income. After two weeks of scouring the law books she realized that she will never find the law, because it does not exist. She now speaks out against the income tax and the IRS.

One ex IRS agent stopped paying income tax around 10 years ago. A few years back he was taken to court over the issue. The prosecution would not provide the text of the law requiring the income tax to be paid. The judge also refused to provide the law after it was requested by the jury. The jury returned a unanimous verdict of not guilty because neither the prosecution nor the court could or would provide the text of the law.

Consider all the protests outside the IRS buildings in Washington where the people hold signs saying one thing: "Show us the Law!"

The IRS supposedly cannot show anyone the law, because it does not exist. This is my understanding of it.

...

Self Assessment & Voluntary Compliance

The income tax is based on self assessment and voluntary compliance. The income tax is a scam in order to get you to file a "first time" tax return.

How the scam works.

You are 18 years old and get your first job. You diligently fill out your employment papers and withholding forms authorizing your employer to withhold some of your pay. To be safe, you claim zero deductions. At the end of the year, you discover that if you file a tax return you will get a a partial refund of what was voluntarily withheld from your paycheck (If you don't file, the IRS keeps it all.) What to do, what to do? Hell! I want some of my money back, so you file your first return… Gotcha!

When one files their very first tax return, the filer has "volunteered" to be responsible for the public debt (forever). The IRS then creates a "Master File" on the filer using their social security or a tax ID number. From then on, the IRS computers keep track of the filer and expect a return EVERY YEAR. When a return is not filed for a given year when "income" was reported on a 1099 from an employer, the IRS computers start kicking out notices, etc.

But, what if one claims "Exempt" from withholding when filling their W-4? Nothing (except SS payments) are withheld. At the end of the year, there is no money to have to file to get back.

Am I crazy? Nah! I personally know dozens of people who have never filed a tax return… ever. The oldest of these is 73 years old. Not one notice, threat, or any action by the IRS. The key is to NEVER file your first return.

The reason why so many tax protesters lose in court is because all the IRS has to do is show the judge your very first return where you signed under penalty of perjury that you were a U.S. taxpayer.

The income tax IS voluntary until you volunteer for the first time… Then it becomes mandatory… for the rest of your life. Once you volunteer, you can never win in any court, because all arguments against the income tax are frivolous. Your word is your bond.

What I have written here is the truth, whether you believe it or not. No flames, please. Do your own research on the voluntary nature of the income tax and contract law. If you do not know your rights… You don't have any.

PS: Remember the rules for collecting the recent "tax rebate" money. It didn't matter whether you ever paid income tax, but in order to collect the handout, you simply had to file a return (that's all) to be eligible . $300.00 is not a bad investment for acquiring a new, lifelong economic slave. Suckers.

"It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

“Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality”

Your friend

Is a automoton. Programmed to think that American's need an income tax. Nobody wants it except the people dividing up the loot in Washington.

The 16th ammendment was passed in the night and under false representations.

This is not a subjective topic. It is an empirical fact that a free person would choose to keep their money instead of giving it away to a gorgon.

Of all the directions you get pulled, I would rely on the substantiated positions of Ron Paul more than almost anyone else. Especially on this near and dear topic.

jrb

Fortune Favors the Bold

I tried explaining this point before. The sixteenth amendment was a direct response to the court ruling cited in FTF. Hence their arugment is a bit spacious.

The reason Ron Paul argues it is unconstitutional is because of the fifth amendment, and the way the IRS operates. It shifts the burden of proof that one is in compliance with the law to the accussed, as oppossed to the state.

Fortune Favors the Bold

Ron Paul does not argue that the income tax is unconstitutional

But, yeah, the rest of what you said I believe reflects his views.

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Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-yTg).
Glenn Beck Program Jun 5.

The income tax goes against

The income tax goes against the principles of America. The income tax basically means the government owns your production (communism) and says how much of it you will take home.

Actually, it more closely

Actually, it more closely fits the definition of fascism, as Corp. U.S. owns nearly everything today through the peoples use of it's SSNs or TINs.

I'll argue that it is still unconstitutional

Even though it is backed by a constitutional amendment, I'll argue that it still remains unconstitutional.

The reason lies in the fact that we live in a Republic, not a Democracy. The 16th amendment is a direct contradiction of Article 1, Section 9..."no capitation, or other direct tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken."

The power to amend the constitution was a power intended not to change, but to add to it. It's what makes us a Republic, free from the whims of the times.

Ask yourself this...if a amendment was to be passed saying "Congress now has unrestricted ability to make laws which restrict religious expression and freedom of speech." Would that be a constitutional law?

The constitutional amendments do not give the government the power to write laws at will which are in direct contradiction to the intent of the constitution.

I believe that this is not a living document, rather, that it is the very document which gives the government authority over specific aspects of my being. If it is not followed in entirety, it is invalid.

What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!

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You're correct. It's

You're correct. It's unconstitutional.

Here's an analogy: Suppose they created a new amendment, a 28th Amendment, that banned semi-automatic firearms. It passes through the process legally.

Would it be constitutional or unconstitutional? Of course not. It can't be unless they also abolish the Second Amendment.

Article 1, Section 9 states: "No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken." That eliminates the constitutionality of any progressive direct tax, amendments to the contrary.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

Regardless.

True or not, paying income taxes is slavery.
Individuals working collectively, not a problem.
When the State owns everything or can tax everything including your income, that is a problem, because you are no longer a free person.

Ummm that website is horrible.

Everything in this thread about how the Income Tax is illegal under the constitution is what that site is disputing. Everyone who has posted here is showing why that website is nothing but a crack at trying to discredit what is known to us here at the Daily Paul about the Federal Income tax being wrong and unconstitutional.

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the 16th amendment was never legally ratified

we need proof that it was ratified....and it just isnt being shown to us at the moment.

"Stop paying lip service to the Constitution,and OBEY IT!"-Ron Paul

True, the 16th amendment

True, the 16th amendment wasn't legally ratified because it wasn't the original jurisdiction government that was acting but the private corporation that was formed in 1871. Just like how the corporation adopted the original jurisdiction Constitution of the United States of America as it's own, but dropped the 13th (Titles of Nobility) amendment.

13th Amendment:

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsp&fileName=03...

Here are some links to the first publication of the Amendment:

http://www.amendment-13.org/va1819images/va19stdept1.jpg
http://www.amendment-13.org/va1819images/va19stc1.jpg
http://www.amendment-13.org/va1819images/va19stbwlcert.jpg
http://www.amendment-13.org/va1819images/va19std13p30.jpg

Solution To The Income Tax

Even advocates of rescinding the income tax are tired of false assertions.

But whether the income tax is "constitutional" or not, it is certainly, as implemented, a vehicle for violating the spirit of representative government; and I say so on at least 2 counts.

1. We are needlessly forced to pay interest on debts we in fact have certified;

2. Monies taken under the guise of taxation for a stipulated purpose are robbed for other purposes.

These activities do not just violate implied agreements and responsibilities to the people; the violations ultimately (and have already) accumulate even terminal sums just of public debt. After all, the so called Federal Reserve System further imposes upon us a system which can only multiply private debt to collapse.

So all these things are signs of a renegade, if not wholly unlawful government, bent on denying its people representation.

There is one solution to all these things; and that is mathematically perfected economy. In our Parable of Perfect Economy, Benjamin Franklin tells a story of funding government without even the need for taxation. While the proposition is practical, what we need on the contrary to do (if we are to solve the imperfections of monetary and taxation systems), is for those who use the bridge to pay for the bridge as they consume of it -- which costs of course, are minimalized to the extreme by mathematically perfected economy. The bridge for instance might be paid directly and with complete elimination of personal taxpayer overhead (as imposed by "income" tax implementations) by a fuel tax, which of course would distribute costs according to use of the asset which we have decided to create jointly through representative government. Here's the story, if you'd like to give Parable of Perfect Economy a read:

http://perfecteconomy.com/pg-parable-of-perfect-economy.html

But in any case, if you want to eliminate the income tax and all other destructive consequences of the unjust taxation and monetary systems, you best give mathematically perfected economy immediate scope.

Regards,

mike montagne -- founder of PEOPLE For Mathematically Perfected Economy, and author of mathematically perfected economy (1979)

http://www.perfecteconomy.com/

Regards,

mike montagne -- founder of PEOPLE For Mathematically Perfected Economy, and author of mathematically perfected economy (1979)

http://www.perfecteconomy.com/

mathematically perfected economy

Dude your insane rantings are hilarious, keep up the good work!

PS in your spare time you might want to do some reading on basic economics, cause you clearly have no clue.

Believe what you want.

One thing I’ve never seen or heard anyone bring up in this RP Revolution is that since income is legally defined as profit or gain, salary & wages (even exchanges of pay for service with no gain produced) are not even income.

--Cliff, Sioux City, Iowa

"One thing is clear: The

"One thing is clear: The founding Fathers never intended a nation where citizens pay nearly half of everything they earn to government." --Congressman Ron Paul, July 17 2001

You might also be interested in this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qPkZWDsf3U

Agreed

That's obvious; and I fully agree; but the gold standard, especially if it coexists with interest, has no power itself whatever to rectify the ongoing process of damage.

http://perfecteconomy.com/pg-why-precious-metal-monetary-sta...
http://perfecteconomy.com/pg-about-interest.html

As you see, Ron has argued for competing currencies, which, in the vein of Austrian dogma, will be subject to interest. As interest multiplies debt in proportion to a circulation (http://perfecteconomy.com/pg-probability-of-worldwide-econom...), how can we possibly benefit from the unqualified dogma; and if this movement (which started way long ago) is to succeed, how are we going to succeed unless we unite on *the answers* to these issues?

Of course, I don't deny the answers exist; on the contrary, I invite their discussion -- and particularly, lucid discussion by the candidate(s).

Regards,

mike montagne -- founder of PEOPLE For Mathematically Perfected Economy, and author of mathematically perfected economy (1979)

http://www.perfecteconomy.com/

Regards,

mike montagne -- founder of PEOPLE For Mathematically Perfected Economy, and author of mathematically perfected economy (1979)

http://www.perfecteconomy.com/

anyone know what would happen

if when you went down to a Social Security card and when they hand it to you you said, "excuse me there seems to be an error on this card. This is not me. I have never used all caps for my name could you please get me one that does not use all caps. When they say we cannot do that this is how all ovf them are done. You then ask who a person is suppose to talk to about an error in the data on the Card. Keep demanding to have the write information on the card. I wonder what they would do if you fought that in court?

It really wouldn't matter

It really wouldn't matter how they spelled one's name so long is it states on the card that it is the property of the SSA and not the person holding it.

Thanks

for all of your input. I have learned a lot already. I just get really frustrated.

I am kind of sick too

Under the income tax you do not have a right, under the law, to claim even one penny of your earnings as yours and yours alone.
The government now claims the right to tax from the first penny to the last, at any rate it deems necessary, up to, and theoretically exceeding, 100%.
Does this seem like a type of taxation contemplated by those adopting the Constitution?

And check this while you are at it!

The man that KNOWS! http://truthattack.org

LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A BARREL!
Drowning in debt? About to be eaten
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right NOW! Free to join!
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I agree there is no law that

I agree there is no law that requires a man or woman to pay an income tax, but when one uses the SSA's SS#, it is not the man or woman that is being required to pay the tax, it is the SS created trust, which belongs to the Corp. U.S., that is paying the tax.

In fact, the SS Act of 1935 states, among other things, that it is for"...raising revenue and for other purposes."

no need to "check this"

What I stated about who has first claim on everything you earn is, as far as the "law" is concerned, true.
The income tax is as anti-freedom as you can get.
I don't need anyone to tell me whether or not this is a fact.
The income tax is better than owning slaves, if I had been a slave owner in 1860 and had the option of keeping them or "freeing" them but being able to impose an income tax on them, it would be a no brainer, I would have no problem seeing the income tax as the better deal for me.
You can argue about the income tax all day, but it cannot be squared with any degree of real freedom.

The difference is one is not

The difference is one is not compelled, though one may believe one is, to contract with the SSA. It is all voluntary.

Go here...

http://www.GiveMeLiberty.org/revolution

Get informed. Read and sign the petitions.

So you were converted that

So you were converted that it is unconstitutional and you read one article on the internet you have not corroborated and are now convinced it is constitutional... I call BS!

But just in case like others have said you need to study the issue. What is unconstitutional is a direct income tax on individuals. Trading labor for compensation is not defined as income that is where the fraud comes in.

The 16th amendment was ruled to impose no new taxes by the US Supreme Court. So please explain if it imposes no new taxes how it makes individual taxes on compensation for labor constitutional?

Do your research or you will prove yourself ignorant at best, a troll at worst.

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