BARR and BALDWIN are NOT in competition with Dr. Paul
Apparently there are a few people who don't realize that there are two election cycles. They think Barr and Baldwin are in competition with Dr. Paul. That's wrong. There is the Primary, which is the race to try to get votes and delegates in an attempt to get nominated in one's party. After the nomination, then comes the "General Election."
If you support Barr (Libertarian Party) or Baldwin (Constitution Party), you're not opposing Dr. Paul or taking votes away from him. Barr and Baldwin are running in the General Election. Dr. Paul is NOT. After McCain is nominated, Paul is dropping out. He is not even going to be a write-in candidate, since he is not filing to do so. Write-ins for him will not be counted or ever reported. Dr. Paul will not write himself in. If he votes, he will vote for someone that's actually running. If you're rational, you'll vote for someone that's running too.
Barr and Baldwin are running in the General Election. Dr. Paul is running in the Primary. Barr and Baldwin do not take votes away from Paul, and vice versa, because they're running in two different contests.
If you care about liberty, you'll do two things: 1) Support Paul in the primaries to get votes and delegates to try to get him a speaking spot at the Convention. 2) Support Barr and/or Baldwin, with money and resources, in order to raise their polling in order to get them a speaking spot at the debates against McCain and Obama. The purpose of both of these tasks is so that the message of liberty and limited government can be heard in the the media. The purpose of this is to help influence Americans to convert to the philosophy of limited government.
The objective of converting more Americans to the philosophy of limited government, through debates, news, speeches, and books, is so that there will be enough Americans to elect a president with Dr. Paul's general libertarian/conservative/Constitutionalist philosophy in the future. Right now, the numbers just aren't there. Most Americans still want big government. At this point in The Revolution, as Dr. Paul has said many times, "It's about THE MESSAGE."
If you care about liberty, you will support Barr and/or Baldwin with money, resources, and campaigning now. 15% polling is necessary in order to get one of them in the debates. This is not in conflict with support of Dr. Paul in the Primaries and in seeking a Convention speaking-spot for him. If you care about liberty enough, you will do both.
If you're really dead-set on a self-indulgent write-in for Dr. Paul that will never see the light of day, support Barr and/or Baldwin with donations and campaigning, then write Dr. Paul in when voting time comes.
Barr VOTED FOR THE PATRIOT
Barr VOTED FOR THE PATRIOT ACT AND THE IRAQ WAR. That makes him an enemy of liberty, and no amount of 'spin' or apologitics will make that go away.
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
Well said!
Well said!
I concur
The fight for liberty has many fronts. Pick your battle but lets not target each other.
Paul or NOTA2008
"It is like a finger pointing away to the moon, don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory." - Bruce Lee
http://www.bmvgroupinc.com/ Never tie your shoes again. Ever! While helping me get to St.Paul!
"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
I Hereby Humbly and Respectfully Propose
That this thread, "Barr and Baldwin are NOT in competition with Dr Paul", is from now on the ONE AND ONLY THREAD used to discuss 3rd party politics and all non -Ron Paul related candidates. I will even BUMP it occassionally to ensure that the well-meaning members of the DP are afforded this priveledge. I would submit also that all debate should be friendly toward Barr/ other supporters and that any other threads that surface not directly pertaining to Ron Paul campaign related topics or general interest DP "potpurri" that may be offensive to someone working towards the goals hoped to be accomplished at the RNC be ignored until they are BURIED. I commit here and now to NOT BUMP non-RP threads by refraining from posting any comments, pro or con, on any other thread discussing non-Ron Paul politicians. (if a comment is just too good to let slide though, I reserve the right to post it here).
I will be supporting Dr. Ron Paul
To the end. IF he drops out THEN AND ONLY THEN will I even consider another candidate. But it will not be Barr. And I haven't even looked at Baldwin yet. Paul or bust. Take your weak post and weak candidate (barr) and go play in another sandbox.
Aku Soku Zan
Aku Soku Zan
Why won't you be supporting Barr?
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Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y
changes
That video above 'GLOWING Support' is excellent. I watched it last night, trying to get a sense of Mr. Barr - it speaks to RP people . It's Bob introducing Dr. Paul at CPAC 2008 - see below. http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY
I was thrilled to then see Dr. Paul speak to the Conservative Political Action Conference - CPAC 2008 - wow! An excellent CSPAN recording. http://youtube.com/watch?v=nWdtMftHTtQ
If Barr is a secret agent
sent by the elites to destroy Ron Paul, as some of the tinfoil hatters here allege, then they elites picked a pretty good actor I must say, because his respect and admiration is pretty convincing.
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Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y
Bush was pretty convincing,
Bush was pretty convincing, too, right after 9/11.....
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
Barr VOTED FOR THE PATRIOT
Barr VOTED FOR THE PATRIOT ACT AND THE IRAQ WAR. That makes him an enemy of liberty, and no amount of 'spin' or apologitics will make that go away. Another reason not to support him is that the only people he's got pushing the bejesus out of him believe things like this:
"But my principle is to vote for that candidate who I think is going to do the least damage to liberty. I don't care whether he's "evil" or not." BillyDee
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
He voted for the Patriot Act in order to water it down
He voted for it, because that was the only way he could get on the committee to water it down: http://www.nolanchart.com/article3876.html It was going to pass anyway, without his vote, so that was the rational thing to do. He should be commended and thanked.
By the way, I'm glad you like my quote. I'm very quotable aren't I?
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Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y
Yes, quotable alright.....
Yes, quotable alright..... so was Hitler and Stalin. To say Barr or ANYONE should be thanked for voting for a piece of leglistation that is one of the worst assults on freedom in American history is like saying that Hitler should be thanked for the holocost. Who knows..... some other 'worse' tyrant might have come along and killed even more Jews if not for Hitler. You are beyond reason.
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
You don't get it do you?
It was going to pass anyway, because it had overwhelming support. His one vote didn't cause it to pass. Rather, his one vote allowed him to alter it to make it less restrictive of liberty.
You apparently have no concept of rationality. If the goal is to maximize liberty in our society, then you do what reason requires to bring about a freer society. Before you take an action, you ask yourself if it is going to increase liberty, if so, then you do it. It's that simple.
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Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y
So why did Dr. Paul vote
So why did Dr. Paul vote "NO"? Is Ron Paul wrong? He just isn't that cunning or smart? I'd really like to hear why his voting NO was such a irrational thing to do. I'll be eagerly awaiting your answer.
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
I don't know the details
but, if he had the opportunity to get on the committee to water down the Act by voting yes, then that's what he should have done. He possibly could have brought it into accordance with the Constitution. Yes, it is possible for Paul to act irrationally at times, as it is for all humans.
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Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y
How, exactly, could the
How, exactly, could the 'patriot act' be brought into accordance with the Constitution? I want a specific explanation, no bullshit runaround. Please... oh wise one, how?
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
Still waiting on your answer....
BillyDee??? BillyDee??? Where'd you go???? I see you're still online... where are you??????
Dr. William "Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
By
removing the unconstitutional elements of it.
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Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y
Which elements ARE
Which elements ARE Constitutional? If you removed all the unconstitutional elements, you'd have a blank sheet of paper.... OR, you could just vote "NO" like Dr. Paul did. C'mon. Get specific, Billy Dee. Which parts of the patriot act shoud be kept?
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
he won't answer
he won't answer, and if he does it will be cryptic or he'll answer with a question.
been there done that!
----------------------------------------
Ron Paul Supporter Since 1997
“We have allowed our nation to be over taxed and over regulated and over run by bureaucrats, the founders would be ashamed of us for what were putting up with” Ron Paul
“We have allowed our nation to be over taxed and over regulated and overrun by bureaucrats, the founders would be ashamed of us for what we're putting up with.” Ron Paul
The pieces
I have no idea how many times Ron has said that the Revolution isn't about him. It is about the message. I do believe that both Barr and Baldwin are sincere in trying to carry on as much of this Revolution as they can. The dogged loyalty to one man, Ron, could hamper the momentum of the Revolution when he finally steps aside. He's determined that he will keep his house seat and will not be seeking the presidency if he doesn't get the Republican nomination. We all should be mature enough to respect his decision and continue to seek and support other candidates for liberty at all levels of government, even the presidency. Believe me when I say that I wish Dr. Paul had taken either the LP or CP's offer, they did both offer the nomination to him even breaking party bylaws to do so, but he didn't. So now the Revolution is fragmenting, splitting because it feels lost with out a leader, when in reality it never really had or needed one. What we all need to do is hitch up or pants, and continue to fight for liberty as each of us sees fit. That may mean supporting Barr for some and Baldwin for others, we've felt the need for the Revolution to re-unite behind a single candidate, but that's not as important as maintaining a unified resolve to work for liberty. We can't let personal candidate preferences get in the way of that ideal. If this Revolution is to continue we need to pick up the pieces after Dr. Paul drops out and reforge the Revolution into more than just the one man and one race.
Oh yes they are
All three are running for president of the United States...that would be in direct competition with one another. Too bad the Libertarian Pary and the Constitution Party did not unite behind Ron Paul and pledge their support to Paul...it's the person rather than the party anyway. Now THAT would have been a united effort...and one that would have had impact all across America. Both parties could have added his name to their ticket as a Republican representative. There is more than one way to skin a cat. And if Washington is the cat...then the third parties had better figure out a way to join forces or it's going to be too late. Ron Paul is the best choice...and the other two parties should not have competed but rather joined the fight since Paul's values compliment theirs.
oh, and I for one don't want
oh, and I for one don't want him to have a speaking spot, I want him to be the next President of The United States of America
"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski
Thanks for sharing what you want - my turn
So, you would like Ron Paul to be the next President of the United States?
Me too! And... I would like to have wings, make love to Salma Hayek, and have a Bugatti Veyron in the garage of my Swiss chalet.
Now that we've got that over with, let's put our feet back on the earth and talk about what we can really do in the general election.
"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."
Advocating for minarchical libertarianism since 1984...
"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."
Minarchism
track
The numbers will never be
The numbers will never be there, and Ron Paul knew this and therefore chose to represent the Republican party. What is interesting to me is that maybe the Revolution is not a force that can join the parties like so many thought. Loyalty is thick. and alot of the crap against you is because you are indeed asking those people to shed their loyalty and take a gamble on the Libertarian party? nice try but hell no. I happen to agree with Paul on this one and think just as much can get done by the Republican party with the values and platform of yester year.
"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski
The numbers will never be there?
You think a presidential candidate with Dr. Paul's philosophy will never be elected in this country?
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Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y
they sure as hell are!
we are trying to have an upset victory for Ron Paul at the St. Paul Convention
and before that is over they are taking votes from Ron Paul.
In the sixties Rockefeller was favored as a shoe in for the nomination but he was shouted down by rowdy Goldwater supporters and Goldwater got the nomination. So if we fight, get loud and in their face we can do this unless you are already supporting the neocon Barr or just can't win Baldwin then you are not supporting Ron Paul so yes they are taking support from Ron Paul. ARE YOU IDIOTS?
The big problem here is that you have all these parties running in different directions instead of uniting behind the one man who's political views most fit their own with the greatest chance of winning. WHY don't they get it?
Unite you fools behind Ron Paul and then let's see what we can all do together as we unite in one cause to get Ron Paul over the top.
Right now they are just disbursing their support fragmenting in different ways and losing losing losing. When will they get smart? NEVER!
Upset victory for Ron Paul in St. Paul?
Get real. Please. It's time.
How many delegates will Ron Paul have? 35? 50? Even if he has 100 delegates they will be the laughingstock of the convention. If you're not prepared for that, don't blame me. Their yelling will hardly even be heard. The idea that it might be persuasive is preposterous. How can anyone be so detached from reality? Let me guess, you're a Truther who believes the Bilderberg Group is a conspiracy to ... (who knows what), that creationism is science (and evolution is "just" a theory) and the R3VOLUTION might have a lot in common with LaRouche and his followers.
We have a helluva lot more work to do before candidates with the libertarian agenda are taken seriously, not the least of which involves getting the heads of people like you out of the clouds and back down to Earth. Now, Ron Paul has made unbelievable progress this year, to be sure, but we're not even close to the critical mass that will be required so that we could start pulling off upset victories at Republican conventions.
But, if that's where your head is, I guess I can understand why you're upset about threads like this. Remind me not to be around when reality finally sinks in for you. I suspect it's not going to be pretty.
"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."
Advocating for minarchical libertarianism since 1984...
"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."
Minarchism
track
Point well made
Now that we know our top choice, Dr. Paul, will not be in the general election, let's focus on who the R3VOLUTION should support in the general election. Unless dailypaul.com has no more purpose, that would seem to be our highest priority.
So, who is the best choice for the R3VOLUTION to support in the general election, and why? Barr or Baldwin? Or someone else?
"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."
Advocating for minarchical libertarianism since 1984...
"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."
Minarchism
track
I suggest Barr
due to him already polling around 6%. Baldwin is way below that I'm sure. It would take too much money and resources to get Baldwin to the 15% debate requirement.
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Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y