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9/11 Topic WITHOUT BillyDee and Minachist

I would like to see where we can take a 9/11 topic without BillyDee, Minachist and their ilk.

Every time there is a 9/11 topic, BillyDee and Minachist barge in and repeat the same old crap about Tin Foil hats and such.

Please you guys/gals could you let us have just one discussion on the subject without your interference?

Thanks



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A while back, Minarchist started a thread

soliciting "alternative" views on 9/11. In this post, Minarchist wrote:

"I just don't understand what motivation anyone other than a terrorist would have to have any part in this. If you do, please spell it out for me, because I must be some kind of idiot, but I just don't get it."

Here was my response:

You are not idiotic for not "getting it"; you simply haven't had the chance to weight the right evidence.

To understand the motive, I strongly suggest you read the following (sourced) essay by G. Edward Griffin, who appears alongside Ron Paul in Fiat Empire and America: Freedom To Fascism and who wrote The Creature From Jekyll Island.

Part 1: The Chasm
Part 2: Secret Organizations and Hidden Agendas
Part 3: Days of Infamy
Part 4: The War on Terrorism
Part 5: An Idea Whose Time Has Come (Video)

I also recommend the following excellent, sourced material to better understand what happened on 9/11 and the context in which it took place:
An Interesting Day: George W. Bush On 9/11
A Timeline Surrounding September 11th
Simplifying the case against Dick Cheney
The Trilateral Commission: Usurping Sovereignty
Patriots Question 9/11
The Truth and Lies of 9/11 (Documentary)
9/11 Press For Truth (Documentary)

Researching 9/11 is a minefield of information and disinformation, but I assure you that if you take the time to put in your due dilligence you'll find that there is more than enough credible evidence to prove complicity by criminal elements within the U.S. government beyond a reasonable doubt. This is an emotionally and psychologically difficult topic to research. Keep an open mind but demand quality evidence. Start with the material above.

Unfortunately, it turned out that this individual (Minarchist) was not interested in factual/logical information, only writing off those who present it as insane, or worse.

Even after I repeatedly presented him with sourced articles which clearly explain the motive (which was NOT purely financial), Minarchist continued to write things such as:

With 911 these people believe that financial motive is enough to motivate a massive widespread conspiracy to murder, and/or cover up the murder, of 3,000 innocent Americans."

More disturbingly, Minarchist wrote:

"The sad/dangerous thing is that once someone becomes convinced by his disillusionment, delusion is not that far way, and all kinds of abhorrent behavior can seem justified. Arguably, that's the kind mentality from which McVeigh was operating."

My response:

Now you are claiming that the people who do not believe that 9/11 was simply a surprise attack by 19 religious extremists, and have provided you with evidence based on documented facts and logic to support that view, have a terrorist mindset ("arguably")? Would you argue that these people all have a terrorist mindset?

After all of this, Minarchist once again made the following disingenuous assertion: "But hey, I'm open to considering alternative theories and explanations, if they are based in reason and logic."

To which I replied, "No, you're not. This was clearly a lie from the beginning."

Laugh

Good title.

For, they are they ones that know nothing and twist knowledge in favor of theirs.

.

.

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Billy you should cool it and leave them alone

They have the right to have a thread without you chasing them around and hounding them. Be cool you have been allowed to have your voice heard. Have respect for others.

Hey Billydee

I'm going to give you one chance to convince me that these buildings were not either not demolished or the people who owned and ran them did not know about the explosives. So here it is. I'm all ears but If you fail to do so, I will disregard all of your posts from here on out. You decide...

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

I'm just here to represent Dr. Paul's view on the matter, since

no one else is. This is not about me personally.

His views can be found at www.paulitesagainsttruthers.com

--------
Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y

well it's good to know

that Dr. Paul has such an independant thinker working for him.

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Hey BillyDee, here's a

Hey BillyDee, here's a hypothetical application of your philosophy (you know the one that says we should thank Bob Barr for voting for the "partiot act" and that Ron Paul voting "no" was irrational..)

Here it is, in another one of your quotes, below:

"If the goal is to maximize liberty in our society, then you do what reason requires to bring about a freer society. Before you take an action, you ask yourself if it is going to increase liberty, if so, then you do it. It's that simple."

To me, and probably most other people on this forum, a very practical application of your philosophy would be to grab your Bob Barr spamming, neocon mole ass and beat you so badly you'd be drinking your meals through a straw and unable to type your poison into a keyboard for a long, long time. Hey, in my opinion, it would "maximize liberty" to shut down your Barr / anti-truther, neocon B.S. retoric and allow people here to discuss and promote ideals that truly DO pertain to liberty. But hey, luckily for you, my moral code isn't conditional and built on "the end justifies the means" like yours seems to be, so you can rest assured that won't happen. I just wanted to give you an example of your philosophy in action so you could see how preposterous it is, especially when it applies to YOU.
I'll re-emphasize that this is only a HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE, so don't go twisiting it around as you are prone to do.

www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic

Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

That would not maximize your liberty.

That would put you in prison. In addition, advocating a society where people commit acts of violence against those they disagree with, does not maximize liberty. If you want to maximize liberty, you should be advocating that everyone allow everyone else liberty.

You're just not a very smart person. That's why you couldn't see that what you're talking about is not conducive to liberty.

John Stuart Mill wrote an excellent consequentialist defense of freedom of speech in "On Liberty." You should read it.

--------
Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y

Well then I'm going with my original theory

I don't think there were any terrorists at all. I think a couple of pilots probably just fell asleep at the wheel and veered off course, accidently hit the buildings and George Bush just told us it was a terrorist attack so he could invade Iraq. You'll buy that won't ya.

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

Rolls not 911

"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it": Mohandas Gandhi

'I always think of all you canvassors and precinct leaders and delegates at the front line and caucuses.
Good luck out there &Thank you. You're a gift.

'I always thank of all you canvassors and precinct leaders and delegates who were at the front line and caucuses.
Good luck out there &Thank you. You're a gift.

We all have our roles.

The truth is we don't know the truth.

Since the truthers keep posting about this topic, it is obvious that they are trying to persuade people.

You don't need to persuade proof.

We all have our roles.

Possible, yes, but so are other theories.

Keys to 911

It is a fact that he can't un- lock it to look under the hood until he gets the keys. No one can. Please leave this topic for other specialist sites. Please. Thank you.

'I always think of all you canvassors and precinct leaders and delegates at the front line and caucuses.
Good luck out there &Thank you. You're a gift.

'I always thank of all you canvassors and precinct leaders and delegates who were at the front line and caucuses.
Good luck out there &Thank you. You're a gift.

The buildings did not burn down

They were blown apart

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

If Michael Manystrom

doesn't do something about Billy Dee and his ilk, this whole forum will disappear mostly because it will be overtaken by all the trolls.

Sorry all you people who are for free speech and wanting us to put up with these pests... saying they have a right too...
my foot!!!

Any Ron Pauler should try it on any other candidate's list and see how long you last!.

Then why isn't this post a "troll?"

It obvious trolls people in, doesn't it?

--------
Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y

Kinda begging for it, aren't

Kinda begging for it, aren't you? How could they resist a heading like that?
www.paulforronpaul.com

ya, I suppose so but...

I was hoping they would listen to my plea and just let one slip by.
I guess that's not going to happen. Oh well.

---------------------------------------------------
"Don't make me come down there" - God

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Archons', we are taking our planet back and there's nothing you can do about it!

All sides should be heard

shouldn't they? I represent Dr. Paul's side on this issue.

--------
Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y

Who the hell are you

you present BS.

Dr.Paul's side is another

Dr.Paul's side is another investigation. I'm glad to hear you finally came around to his position on the matter ;)

Yes this is his position

www.paulitesagainsttruthers.com

I agree with every word he says here. 9/11 was not an inside job.

He hasn't called for an investigation. He just says he would support one if it were called for. But he says the investigation would be to determine "ineptness," not a conspiracy or that the government knew it was going to happen or made it happen.

--------
Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y

Hmmmm just like you

Hmmmm just like you represent his position on the 'patriot act'? You say he SHOULD have voted for it, even though in an irrational moment, he voted NO. Great job representing Dr. Paul there, cheif.

On June 6th, 2008 BillyDee says:
It was going to pass anyway, because it had overwhelming support. His one vote didn't cause it to pass. Rather, his one vote allowed him to alter it to make it less restrictive of liberty.

You apparently have no concept of rationality. If the goal is to maximize liberty in our society, then you do what reason requires to bring about a freer society. Before you take an action, you ask yourself if it is going to increase liberty, if so, then you do it. It's that simple.

--------

reply

On June 6th, 2008 docholladay says:
So why did Dr. Paul vote "NO"? Is Ron Paul wrong? He just isn't that cunning or smart? I'd really like to hear why his voting NO was such a irrational thing to do. I'll be eagerly awaiting your answer.

"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN

reply
I don't know the details
On June 6th, 2008 BillyDee says:
but, if he had the opportunity to get on the committee to water down the Act by voting yes, then that's what he should have done. He possibly could have brought it into accordance with the Constitution. Yes, it is possible for Paul to act irrationally at times, as it is for all humans.

--------

reply

On June 6th, 2008 docholladay says:
How, exactly, could the 'patriot act' be brought into accordance with the Constitution? I want a specific explanation, no bullsh#t runaround... Please... oh wise one, how?

"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN

reply
On June 6th, 2008 BillyDee says:
By removing the unconstitutional elements of it.

reply

On June 6th, 2008 docholladay says:
Which elements ARE Constitutional? If you removed all the unconstitutional elements, you'd have a blank sheet of paper.... OR, you could just vote "NO" like Dr. Paul did. C'mon. Get specific, Billy Dee. Which parts of the patriot act shoud be kept?

I'm still waiting on an answer......

"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN

www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic

Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

I answered you on another thread

Please stick to the issue here.

--------
Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y

Well, whadya know!

Here I am "barging in" again.

For Dr. Paul's opinion on 9/11 "Truth" see: www.paulitesagainsttruthers.com

He says 9/11 was not an inside job, and that if you care about him you will cease the 9/11 "Truth" rhetoric because it hurts his image and costs him support.

--------
Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y

BillyDee, I have to keep

BillyDee, I have to keep tracking you down because you keep running away from the tough questions. Dr. Paul is in favor on a new independant investigation, so then, why not do another one if for nothing other than to assign responsibility for as you call it 'government incompetence'?? If our leaders were actually incompetent, they should be held accountable and AT LEAST removed from office. I mean, THREE THOUSAND Americans died just on 9/11, not to mention the servicemen killed in an needless war, the devistation of our economy and the evisceration of our Constitution. All as a result of this one event, for which our government had NUMEROUS warnings and for which our defenses were 'stood down'. Were these 'incompetents' removed from office, disciplined, or fired? No.... most of them got promotions. Would you support that investigation, Billy Dee? If not, why not? If I killed ONE person due to my own incompetence or negligence, I'd be in jail right now. Why do we treat our so called 'leaders' any different? Why shouldn't they release 'classified' materials, black box data, Pentagon videos, etc? In a rational world, no one would rest until the incompetents were removed and replaced by those who WERE competent, but we don't live in a rational world, do we "BillyDee"?

Why shouldn't John McCain meet with the truth movement? You never answered. BTW you didn't answer the question about the 'patriot act' either.....

"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN

www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic

Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

I have not problem with an investigation

into who neglected to put the pieces together to figure out that we were going to be attacked.

Why would anyone oppose that?

If I were McCain I wouldn't meet with the "Truth" movement. Dr. won't meet with them either. The only time he had an encounter was at a house party having nothing to do with the Truth movement, and a kid asked him a question about another investigation, and Dr. Paul didn't realize that he was talking about inside job conspiracy theory stuff. Some in the media used that to make it look like Dr. Paul was a Truther. The Truthers fell for it, as did a lot of the public. Anyone politicians who meets with the "Truth" movement costs himself votes. The 9/11 Truthers who tagged along with the rest of Paul's campaign cost him a lot of votes.

I don't know what your question is about the Patriot Act.
--------
Barr's GLOWING support and admiration of Paul: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lKt2s0LjUHY Dr. Paul says Barr is an ally (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448/page/1)
and would do "a very good job" as president (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YaqKf-y

So votes are more important

So votes are more important than the truth? All he'd have to say is "I don't believe it was an inside job, but I AM willing to hear them out." That wouldn't cost him votes, it would probably gain him votes...

"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN

www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic

Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

I wonder what type of 911 Dr

I wonder what type of 911 Dr Paul would prefer, if any?
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :
911

Manufacturer Porsche AG
Production 1964–present
Assembly Germany
Predecessor Porsche 356
Body style(s) 2-door Coupe/Cabriolet/Targa
Layout Rear-engine rear wheel drive/
Rear-engine all wheel drive
Related Porsche Carrera GT
Porsche Boxster
Porsche 912
Porsche 959

Porsche 911 in hillclimbThe Porsche 911 (pronounced as nine eleven, neun elfer in German) is a sports car made by Porsche AG of Stuttgart, Germany. The famous, distinctive, and durable design has undergone continuous development since its introduction in autumn 1963[1]. Mechanically it is notable for being rear engined and, until the introduction of the all-new Type 996 in 1998, air-cooled.

Since its inception the 911 has been modified, both by private teams and the factory itself, for racing, rallying and other types of automotive competition. It is often cited as the most successful competition car ever,[citation needed] especially when its variations are included, mainly the powerful 935. The black one 'Schwartz' in german is the best colour. Probably.

In the international poll for the award of Car of the Century, the 911 came fifth after the Ford Model T, the Mini, the Citroën DS and the Volkswagen Beetle. It is the most successful surviving application of the air (or water) cooled opposed rear engine layout pioneered by its original ancestor, the Volkswagen Beetle.

'I always think of all you canvassors and precinct leaders and delegates at the front line and caucuses.
Good luck out there &Thank you. You're a gift.

'I always thank of all you canvassors and precinct leaders and delegates who were at the front line and caucuses.
Good luck out there &Thank you. You're a gift.

You KNOW that is not going to happen

they must have a trigger on their computer everytime 9/11 comes up they pop up to try to discredit everyone.