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God does not want people to be taxed!

I would like to challenge everyone who is up to it. This is coming from a biblical opinion of both old and new testaments. I believe the bible shows that God does not want people to be taxed. The better method of money going to the "public good" is through free will offerings.

I know throughout history we have examples of people that call themselves "christians" and are all about taxing everyone. So citing catholicism and there non biblical acts would not refute my theory. Let me know if you agree too.

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Agree.

Sounds like a better than building a church building. And to go even one step further, a minister or priest isn't really necessary for people to gather, read the bible and give tithes to. You can just as easily join your tithes together and take care of some widows and orphans.
grant

I personally would like to see church go back to having services

in local parks and more public locations. Even smaller groups getting together at peoples homes would be good. There really is no need for a building let alone these muli million dollar super churches. take an offering for the man that preaches that day. We want ministers to make a living. As a matter of fact misters could have a better living because there would be no upkeep of all these buildings. If the people who met at the parks for services wanted to they could organize food drives or a day to canvass and witness. Why does everyone always make it about a building. Also instead of locking yourself up in a building you are part of the community not some stranger who is always hiding out in your bunkers. If someone wanted to walk by and lissen they could if they wanted to leave they could. What better way to let people know about Jesus. I know one thing I would rather have the church comeing up to me to talk about Jesus than cops making road blocks and carring assult rifles in my city streets. who knows we might have nicer neighborhhods because of it. Shoot the athiest would love this. From what I've learned on this site they love to debate it. Once you start them up debating it they can seem to get enough debate. lol so it even gives them something to do on a weekend afternoon. As for titheing the bible does say 10% is the right amount to give. I also feel after the minister receives his pay this should be very transparent to the whole body not just a few who work the books. It really doesn't matter if someone cheats though for me. My job is to give its their job to do right with what they get. God knows what I give. I'm not judged by another mans work only my own.

I think you will see it more in some places

It would be good to have it this way. I talked to a woman who is in her 50s today who said we should all sell what we have and live together. It caught me off guard because I would not have expected it from someone her age who has a good job and so does her husband. It was refreshing. I also think of the legal hassle it could be if done through a non profit organization. I am very much interested in doing so, but I would like to see it done without any government relationship (as much as possible). So we would be acting as individuals.

Simple

Giving to a institution or church that qualifies for a tax break is the same as giving to the government. Why would we need an organization to help the poor, if you see a poor person, help them, teach them, hire them, whatever it takes that you are able to do. Seems just foolish to enrich the government or a institutional church to take care of the poor, since it is something I can do myself.

Should be.

I understand that this is the way it should be, but even Washington broke away from the intent. Many farmers for lack of gold to trade with, began to trade Corn Whiskey as a form of money. This lead Washington to create the Whiskey tax, which had to be paid for in gold.

Simple

Pay Caesar what is Caesar's, pay God what is God's, if you don't use Caesar's money you certainly don't have anything to pay him with, so you will cease to serve him. Trade directly what you produce for what you need.
grant

Thats what Jesus said

Thats what Jesus said

"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski

bigmikedude's picture

It's nice of God to not want

It's nice of God to not want us to be taxed, but I don't see him standing down here closing the IRS. Granted he helps those that help themselves, "C'mon God, we have been helping ourselves, and we're kinda helped out down here, please hold up your end of the bargain." Amen

your little guy down here at the keyboard, bigmikedude

We turned from God

because we wanted to do things our own way. So God says, fine do it your way and when your society goes to crap and falls into corruption and oppression, when things get so bad that as a whole you cry out and humble yourselves before me, then I will return and destroy those who mock Me, the wicked and those who oppress my people.
Sorry but we aren't their yet, as long as we keep saying that we can fix it ourselves and make our own destiny.
The way I see it, and it may be futile, is we either get destroyed by the world for trying to do right or we get destroyed by God for our wickedness.
If you look at the numbers so far it doesn't look good. I only see one of our "leaders" who is trying to do right and doesn't speak with a forked tongue.

Go Ron Paul

that's not scriptural. It's

that's not scriptural. It's God helps those who cannot help themselves; not those that can help themselves. we have to give it all over to Him and admit we can't do it ourselves. The Church of Jesus Christ, not the specific Catholic church, has missed it though. it is our responsibility to change this world one person at a time, then you will have caring responsible people giving of themselves to others and not relying on the government to supply all our needs. then as people become independent and self supporting, they pass it on, and the irs becomes non-relevant and the world becomes a beautiful caring place. but it all goes back to caring for others as He cares for us.

________________________________
the lesser of two evils is still evil

You nailed this- its great to have ..

another homeschooling mom here.

Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Homeshool

is the only way to go as far as my wife and I are concerned. We schooled our three. Congrats to all homeschoolers!!! Well done.

I don't believe Christ had any use for money.

I would claim that Christ was not in favor of the Roman Empire nor was he a Statist in any means or fashion. As for me I bow to one King and Judge.
grant

Direct trade and charity.

Not only does the government have a lot of money, but it also has a lot of property, it owns all the mineral rights in national parks, it owns most of the property in Alaska. What entity owns most property in the country, what owns most of the waterways, most of the highways, how much property is owned in museums by the government, which we have to maintain whether it is in our interest or not? The government isn't poor, just a many churches aren't poor as they have tons of gold and other property, yet still ask us to not be materialistic and give to them so they can feed the poor. Feed the poor my ass, when have you ever seen a cleric go hungry because of necessity. When have you ever seen a government employee go hungry. I will plant and give directly to the poor. I bow to only one King and Judge.
grant

Not much interest in gold or money.

Never found gold or money that attractive, as a farmer I would much rather have seeds, fertilizer and water. You can keep the shinny metal. I am sure carpenters would much rather have wood and nails instead of gold or money. And I am positive that God would much rather have love than gold or money.

In the New testament..

tax collectors were considered pariahs and the lowest of the low.
Remember the story of Zachariah (tax collector) and how the apostles berated Jesus for breaking bread with him.

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"The essence of freedom is the proper limitation of government". ~ Founding Fathers

Cut out the middle men.

I always find it humorous when I hear the (institutional) churches talk about non-materialism and how we should give them money to help the poor. Consider all the property that the churches own, all the gold it possesses and yet ask people to donate money to them to help the poor. Sell those damn gold items if you want to help the poor, sell all those statues and paintings if you want to help the poor. I prefer to plant and give directly to the poor, don't need a middleman to do it for me.

That is exactly what I do

my charity is direct. The handling of money needs to be extremely transparent.

Our government apparently has plenty of money and they don't tell us.
www.CAFR1.com

By the way, I don't get a tax deduction for most of my charity.

we do too.

no tax breaks for giving directly to the poor, but that is ok, we don't do it for that reason, as I'm sure you don't either.

.Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

god

does not want to be talked about.

she told me last tuesday while getting her nails done.

Taxes are bad in the bible it would rather a nation use customs.

When looking at Israel you must look at it as if it is the church anyone who comes to their country is considered a stranger (or a sinner who has different beliefs). Israel actually had a law for the country (or church) and a law for the strangers (or the sinner).

Ezra 6:8
for the building of this house of God: Let the cost be paid at the king's expense from taxes on the region beyond the River This is paid through customs not a tax on the native-born.

Matt 17:25-27

And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes , from their sons or from strangers?"

26 Peter said to Him, "From strangers."

Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free. 27 Nevertheless, lest we offend them, go to the sea, cast in a hook, and take the fish that comes up first. And when you have opened its mouth, you will find a piece of money; take that and give it to them for Me and you."

Luke 20:21-26

21 Then they asked Him, saying,"Teacher, we know that You say and teach rightly, and You do not show personal favoritism, but teach the way of God in truth: 22 Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"

23 But He perceived their craftiness, and said to them, "Why do you test Me? 24 Show Me a denarius. Whose image and inscription does it have?"

They answered and said, "Caesar's."

25 And He said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."

26 But they could not catch Him in His words in the presence of the people. And they marveled at His answer and kept silent.

Jesus (Son of Man) was autonomous (free) and had the sovereignty (Son of God - Holy Spirit) of sovereign (God) in him. It was a question he could not directly answer without revealing who he was (God). God is sovereign. It would not have been lawful for him to pay taxes. Also the Gold in the coin was the property of the man who handed it to him. The only thing that was lawfully Caesar’s was the image and inscription. So he answered the question honestly without revealing he was God. He could not reveal that until the day of the before Passover because that was the appointed time for him to die.

Gen 1:1 - Luke 23:4

Then the whole multitude of them arose and led Him to Pilate. 2 And they began to accuse Him, saying, "We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, saying that He Himself is Christ, a King."

3 Then Pilate asked Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?"

He answered him and said, "It is as you say."

4 So Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowd,"I find no fault in this Man."
He only ask him are you the king of the Jews. Once he answered yes. Sovereigns don’t pay taxes to other sovereigns. The people under the sovereigns pay all taxes. So the tax question was not asked.

INTEREST

Deut 23:19-20

19 "You shall not charge interest to your brother — interest on money or food or anything that is lent out at interest. 20 To a foreigner you may charge interest, but to your brother you shall not charge interest, that the LORD your God may bless you in all to which you set your hand in the land which you are entering to possess.

Gen 1:1 - Ex 12:49

And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "This is the ordinance of the Passover: No foreigner shall eat it. 44 But every man's servant who is bought for money, when you have circumcised him, then he may eat it. 45 A sojourner and a hired servant shall not eat it. 46 In one house it shall be eaten; you shall not carry any of the flesh outside the house, nor shall you break one of its bones. 47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. 48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. 49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you."

One law two divisions of the law one for the native-born one for the stranger or better yet one for the church (ruled by the priests) one for the government (ruled by the judges). Most churches think there is one law no division. This is wrong.

Romans 13:1 is the scripture most religions today mess up.
They believe the authority is the leader of a nations put in power by God and the authorities are the cops. This is crazy cause our president is the executive branch that is the cops. T

Rom 13:1-7

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities (The law [sovereignty and autonomy - Christ Jesus]). For there is no authority (the sovereignty [Holy Spirit – Son of God – [Christ]) except from God (the sovereign), and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance [Son] of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.

Notice it changes to he at this point.

4 For he (the autonomy [Flesh – Son of Man – [Jesus]) is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword (the sovereignty [Holy Spirit – Son of God – [Christ]) in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes , for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

Taxes are to Customs as Fear is to Honor.

In other word taxes and fear are bad. Customs and honor are good

Thank you for your throughness

taxes to who taxes are due is key- If we are to obey the law, we need to go with the original intent of the writers of the Constitution.(and a tax on the fruits of your labor was NOT part of that intent- I assume you would agree with that).

Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

I can think of 3 examples

I can think of 3 examples specifically....

1: the Bible constantly talks about how the tax collectors were sinners... duh, because taxing is stealing and stealing is in the 10 commandments.

2: the one parable where the poor lady gives all her money, even though a rich guy gives more, brings up the issue of charity...

3: Jesus through the moneychangers and tax collectors out of the temple.

sorry I don't know the exact references in the Bible or whatever... I'm religious, but I don't have the Bible memorized....

maybe not but the church

maybe not but the church really really like money despite their talk.

The vatican owns a really big chunk of the world.

True

which tells you that the church is misguided and corrupt. The Pope is a big, big player in the elites. Remember his recent long visit. And they stated that part of the reason for his visit was political.

Matthew 17:25

When He arrived home, Yeshua spoke first, "Shimon, what's your opinion, do the kings of the earth-from whom do they collect duties and taxes, from their sons or from others?" "From others." he answered. "Then" Yeshua said, "The sons are exempt."

Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

hmmm

give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. oops...

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so you think God wanted the tax?

I did not say that God forbids it. Just that he does not want it. Thinking about the below is why I say this.

Payment of the Temple Tax
24 On their arrival in Capernaum, the collectors of the Temple tax came to Peter and asked him, "Doesn’t your teacher pay the Temple tax?"
25 "Yes, he does," Peter replied. Then he went into the house.
But before he had a chance to speak, Jesus asked him, "What do you think, Peter? Do kings tax their own people or the people they have conquered?"
26 "They tax the people they have conquered," Peter replied.
"Well, then," Jesus said, "the citizens are free! 27 However, we don’t want to offend them, so go down to the lake and throw in a line. Open the mouth of the first fish you catch, and you will find a large silver coin. Take it and pay the tax for both of us.

hmm,

well I'm not to fond of the version your using, however, both the scripture you used and the one I did show that we need to obey the laws of the land that we reside in. Now in a democracy, or a republic, the people decide the laws as a body. So the existence of taxes depends on what the people decide. So if our land has taxes, we pay them without protest and if it doesn't, things are good. If there are ways to go about changing the laws, they're open to us. I would say the Bible teaches us to deal with it this way because our purpose on the earth is to share the gospel of Jesus Christ, taxes are a non-issue.

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what you say makes sense

taxes are a non issue in terms of the commision that you speak of. In terms of voting in the republic that we are in it is good to know what is best to vote for. Hence people like Ron Paul who would eliminate the income tax.