ENOUGH !!
I've had it!
I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!
The bickering and infighting and backstabbing on this forum is beyond the pale.
There are too many people on here who, if you continue in your ways, will destroy this movement and relegate it to irrelevancy very quickly.
This is either the same, or a similar group of people who have pretty much put the lid on the Libertarian Party since the early 1980's and are working hard to effectively kill the party once and for all currently.
This idea of being a 'purist' has got to be shown for what it is: a move by the 'big fish small pond' types who want everyone to be exactly like them and the rest can burn in hell.
This place is starting to sound more like a cult than a political movement.
I know this "we're the true believers" hogwash has a long streak in America since the beginning, but that doesn't make it right or effective. The only thing such an attitude is good for is for helping those who would divide to conquer us.
ENOUGH!!
If you don't like the hand you've been dealt, and you can't stomach that many of the rest of us are looking at all of our options for November and the future, then take your ball and go home.
If you remain, and continue to insist on all or nothing purity - you will get nothing.
Dr. Paul is not crying and ending the whole thing because he lost. If he took your attitude, there would have been no second presidential run, and there certainly would not have been the Campaign for Liberty PAC. WAKE UP. LISTEN to Dr. Paul. He's telling you to quit being an a--hole and learn to ADVANCE the cause of liberty rather than trying to win it all in one fell swoop.
You will drive off many of the people who put blood, sweat, tears, and their fortunes into this campaign.
You will win NO CONVERTS by this all or nothing attitude.
You will only be preaching to your own, ever shrinking, peanut gallery.
We have enough enemies out there fighting to destroy Liberty, we don't need holier than thou a--holes within our own group to add to that list.
I have been on this train since the beginning. I've donated more than I care to count and more than I ever have for any cause. I still would like to see Dr. Paul get the nomination. But I can understand that it just isn't going to happen, barring a miracle.
LISTEN CAREFULLY - EVERYONE
Since Dr. Paul will most likely NOT be on the ballot in any state, you will have to write in his name.
What I am about to tell you is true for Louisiana. It may or may not be true for your state. BUT - you need to find out. Otherwise - you may be WASTING your vote.
In Louisiana it is near impossible to write in a candidate.
I am told that certain touch screen machines allow you to do this, but that has not been verified. Additionally, as I understand it, these machines are ONLY used for early voting. (not absentee) And then this is true only in certain parishes. (counties)
It is also true that write-in votes ARE NOT COUNTED in Louisiana UNLESS the candidate has FILED as a write-in candidate.
I am also told that if you vote absentee by paper, your write in is NOT counted. (there is no place for it on the ballot to my understanding)
That being said, unless you purists can convince Dr. Paul to file as a write in candidate wherever he can, then a write in vote in such a state is a WASTED VOTE - it is going in the trash. It will never be counted, tallied, or reported.
It isn't a protest. You might as well stay home. It's as if you never voted.
THAT is why there are so many of us on here that are looking at other candidates in minor parties to vote for. DEAL WITH IT.
Because we are looking at other candidates, DOES NOT mean we don't support Dr. Paul. It means we can accept REALITY. It means we wish to ADVANCE the cause of liberty in any way possible.
We ARE NOT choosing the lesser of evils. If that were the case, we'd be spouting about McInsane or Osamabama. But we aren't are we?
There is not a boogie man behind every tree. Grow up.
Now, go find out the laws on write-in votes in your state before you waste your time.
If you can't write in Dr. Paul, then consider one of the other candidates, or simply don't vote for president.
There, I'm done.
Ron Paul broke his word
Ron Paul said repeatedly he would stay in the campaign as long as so many people continued supporting him. I have no problem losing a fair fight, but the fix has been in on the part of the RNC and MSM since the very beginning and Dr. Paul's campaign has made no effort to legally punish the RNC or MSM, particularly the reprehensible Fox News. The McCain campaign is unraveling before our eyes; and, had Dr. Paul hung in there until September, he'd have the only organized grassroots campaign at what is going to be a chaotic and disillusioned GOP convention.
We can deal with this in a Paulian manner or a Jeffersonian one. I can tell you, with absolute assurance, time is running out for a Paulian solution.
I don't mind someone
I don't mind someone considering other options here from the very limited choices we now have. What I do mind, is someone twisting something Ron Paul said to make it sound like he is endorsing one or the other. Lets keep the facts straight is all I ask-he has not endorsed anyone else, (I heard him refuse twice again, when I listened just now to the 9 minute clip someone posted. He has consistently said NO he does not intend to endorse anyone & that people should vote who they most agree with on the issues. Lets get along and show him we were listening to what he said. Let's make him proud of us. GO RON PAUL, and keep growing strong Campaign for Liberty!
I agree, and Ron Paul has said directly
he is not endorsing a candidate (seee the thread with the video from ABC).
Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
who cares about the vote?
obviously our choices in voting are quite limited and shredded of meaning through the official rules, etc.
here are your options:
1) mccain
2) obama
3) write in RP
4) barr
5) baldwin
6) some other name on ballot
7) don't vote
None of these will REALLY do anything. We should stop putting forth energy on this subject and simply continue the #1 priority, which is educating, debating, and influencing the people around us. That means bite your tongue when they say they will vote for a major party, and vigilantly continue to inform them of the problems the major parties won't address.
Appeal to people intellectually - that is what is missing from politics. Everything has become a giant TV/image decision. We need to break the public from this paradigm. We need more of the people to truly understand the issues. Get them to read books, wikipedia, etc. Get them to inform themselves. Force them to make their intelligence, rather than the image factor portrayed on TV "news", determine their emotional opinions of candidates, which will ultimately compel their voting actions.
Break them from mass media coverage of the election. Ridicule the coverage as hack journalism - covering speculative opinions, rather than presenting facts, such as clear quotes about the issues and suggested policies. Do what Ron recently did to Obama: "CHANGE?! What Change?!"
We seek to change the people's philosophy of government. It doesn't matter how we vote - this election is lost. The only thing that matters is how we influence the political opinions of those around us. The best thing we can do is try to make them informed of facts, which the news media is severely lacking.
The key to voting
It's true that voting for any of the 7 in the list will in and of itself not REALLY do anything.
However, one measure of what percentage of the voters "get it" (in terms of changing their philosophy of government), is to see how many vote for a barr, baldwin or writein Paul.
I think if that number ever gets to 15% or so, especially more than in just one election, we can finally start getting more attention and making progress.
So to the extent that your vote helps us achieve that 15%, it does REALLY do something.
We just need to agree on whether it's going to be Barr or Baldwin. I think writing in Ron Paul is out because that's likely to not even be counted.
"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."
Minarchism
track
My concern is that this philosophy depends on the
the media/ debates. Which could backfire once Bob Barr opens his mouth and the media says that "This man represents Ron Paul supporters or he wouldnt be there". We can accomplish more through saddling up and taking the revolution to our local, state and federal government than having our ass handed to us on a plate through Bob Barr's inevitable treatment on a stage between McCain and Obama over his watered down version of the revolution. He'll just make Ron Paul supporters look like unprincipled, anti-government rebels without a cause willing to settle for the next trend -calling us spoiling hipocrites for backing someone simply to defeat someone else for having voted on the same things. Any "waking up" going on for real change wont come from a 15% former? neo-con seeking redemption and his choice of VP. just my opinion.
Pointing out the truth about
Pointing out the truth about a candidate (like Barr and his voting for the patriot act, the Iraq war, and his neocon ties, his spammers on the D.P., and suspicious MSM support etc) is not a vain pursuit. Most people who visit this site are discerning enough to make up their own minds, and sometimes 'spirited' debate or agruement is what it takes to reveal the true nature of a candidate (and his supporters). Many people don't have time to dig around and get past the veneer that surrounds a candidate such as Barr, and these debates are a good way for them to get a snapshot of the issuses, arguements for and against, and make up their own minds. Your rant sounds kind of like the grousings of a spammer who's plans have failed. This is America, and speech is still free, so to quote you: "DEAL WITH IT"
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
"Most people who visit this
"Most people who visit this site are discerning enough to make up their own minds, and sometimes 'spirited' debate or agruement is what it takes to reveal the true nature of a candidate (and his supporters). "
while there is some truth to this, because I love and value "spirited debate", the generalization that it makes evident the true nature of a candidates supporters cant always or even sometimes be that acurate-kook, nutty, obsessed etc and all those other things we're called.
"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski
Actually, I see and conceed
Actually, I see and conceed your point.... I apologize for the over-generalization. I was primarily refering to a$$hats like 'billydee' and whatever other numerous 'screennames' he's using.
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
Well ol doc holladay if I am a spammer you must be a McCain love
Well ol doc holladay if I am a spammer you must be a McCain lover, because I have been on the DP a hell of alot longer than you.
Here is the bottom line - Ron Paul is out of the Presidential Race, but he is in the race to restore Liberty to our country. Lots of us understand what he means about that, which is its NOT ABOUT HIM, its the MESSAGE.
Ron Paul realizes that anyone spreading the message is our ally, wether recently converted or long time purist. Wether Bob Barr, Baldwin or the old time Republican down the block.
The difference is that people going with Barr are just uniting the movement and the message. Divided we fall, United We Stand - it doesn't mean you have to like Barr for his prior votes, but you should like Barr for what he is saying now and for the last 4 years. Get out of Iraq, End the Patriot Act, End the IRS, Balance the Budget, Stop the Real ID, Get rid of the FED etc.
The message is the most important, not the man
If you can imagine getting Barr into the National Presidential Debates to speak our message - Ron Paul specifically stated this numerous times that he hopes and wants Barr to be in the debates. WHY? Because he is spreading our message.
you disappoint me billy. I
you disappoint me billy. I thought you were alot more intelligent than this nonsense. so what they say about you is apparently true. be who you want to be but suffer the consequences. you know, Ron Paul talks about it all the time. Personal responsibility.
"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski
Bl@w me BillyDee.
Bl@w me BillyDee.
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
I am still...
voting my conscience...Ron Paul...
Berwick, Columbia County, Pennsylvania
Ron Paul 2012 - The People's Choice
rEVOLution SuperPAC: http://www.revolutionpac.com/
WTP Federal Lawsuit to BAN ALL ELECTRONIC VOTING
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2011-07-26...
Ha ha - well said SamAdam
Just a note, writing in Ron Paul is like trying to fly to the moon in a cardboard box - ain't gonna work.
In my state, and oh about 25 plus other states you have "Sore Loser" laws that prevent someone in the primary from being written in. So basically if you even write someone's name in on the margins of your ballot, they will toss the ballot as being tampered with. Also if you have one of those nifty touch screen voting systems - you can't do squat. However, if you really really want to write in Ron Paul's name and you have to call your county clerk first and see if there is a place for a write-in, you might be able to do that on an absentee ballot. If there isn't and you just write his name in on the margins, they will toss it in the trash.
But that is not the point - Ron Paul ended his campaign for the Presidency, so he is no longer in that phase. He is in the phase of creating a huge movement for Liberty and everything else the Constitution stands for.
Its the message and how many people you can get the message out to
I built a rocket out of
I built a rocket out of cardboard one time and in my dreams it worked just fine
gosh, those laws are pathetic-takes the vote right away from a person -sore loser- didnt know about that-makes me sick. I think alot of old laws should ce challenged as generations mature and pass on
"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski
The message with Bob Barr is
The message with Bob Barr is "It's okay to violate your Oath of Office and betray the Founding Fathers".
I don't care about his mea culpas. I already know what he is based on his voting record.
And my personal opinion is he's a pretender trying to cash in on the movement.
I would rather write in Mickey Mouse than vote for Barr.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Neither is voting for a
"Just a note, writing in Ron Paul is like trying to fly to the moon in a cardboard box - ain't gonna work."
Neither is voting for a neocon imposter like Bob Barr, (he's obviously not going to win so it's nothing more than a protest vote, either) so if I'm voting for a candidate who isn't going to win either way, I'm sticking with the principles I believe in and voting for Ron Paul..... not some guy who voted for the patriot act, the Iraq war, and who has supported neocons in the past.
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
ENOUGH!
of this "wasting your vote" bullshit. If you cast your vote with conscious intention from the core of your being, it is not wasted. Vote for the TRAITOR Bob Barr, who voted for the Patriot Act, if you choose to do so.
its my vote I'll waste it if
its my vote I'll waste it if I want, no not really. but I wonder what Paul, as a Republican, will do. probably NOT vote or write in his own name? dont you have to change registration to vote in general election?
wont not voting send a strong message? wouldnt the difference between primary turnout and general election turnout be great enough to garner attention?
"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski
Good advice
That is what I plan on doing. Write in Ron Paul. Nothing to be mad about.
Ditto
Ditto
"The Preceding Advertisement
"The Preceding Advertisement Was Paid For By The Committee to Elect Bob Barr President."
What a silly outburst. Nothing you just said could be farther from the truth.
Bob Barr created the problem for himself when he signed the Patriot Act seven short years ago.
The Libertarian Party created the problem for itself when it nominated Barr and neoconservative Wayne Allyn Root as presidential and vice-presidential nominees.
Root admits he's only been a libertarian for ONE YEAR. Before that he was a self-proclaimed "Millionaire Republican" who: (a) Publicly endorsed the idea of a McCain/Lieberman 2008 ticket; (b) Donated $1000 to Joe Lieberman's campaign (-three guesses how much he donated to Ron Paul or other Libertarian candidates); (c) Has publicly proclaimed Ron Pual to be "weak on the war on terror" and "sounding like one of the Blame America first crowd", and proclaimed the primary cause of the war on terror is that "Muslim extremists hate us because we're a Democracy".
Root isn't even educated enough to know we're not a Democracy.
This isn't about purism. It's about the Libertarian Party selling out its own movement.
BSUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Smile.
You are breathing today. Principle or lack thereof is why the US is where it is today.
Everyone has choices. Lead by example. Just because the powers that be give you three options..Barr, Obama, McCain. dosen't mean that you have to play their game.
They didn't want to let us be a part of the process or listen to our input on the matter of following the Constitution because they don't follow it themselves even tho they took an oath to up hold it.
Now excuse the rest of us while we vote our Principle and get the United States back. The message is growing daily.
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
I appreciate your zeal
but Im still not voting for Barr : ) But I would fight for your right to do so.