LA Times: "Ron Paul fans, Ralph Nader wants your attention"
Submitted by primo1 on Fri, 06/13/2008 - 23:44
Excerpt:
In the wake of the decision by the 72-year-old Paul to, via his website, officially declare an end to his presidential quest, the 74-year-old Nader showed a political agility that has not always marked his many, many runs for the White House. Today, he released the following statement:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/ron-paul-...
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Great Quotes
"Better to light a candle, than to curse the darkness." - Confucious
"Slight not what's near, through aiming at what's far." - Euripides
"Those who cannot forgive others, break the bridge over which themselves must pass." - Confucious
We can never solve our significant problems from the same level of thinking we were at when we created the problems. - Albert Einstein
Whenever "A" attempts by law to impose his moral standard on "B," "A" is most likely a scoundrel. - H.L. Mencken
He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression. - Thomas Paine
Mistrust those in whom the urge to punish is strong. - Nietzsche
Nice.
Big pill to swallow for some folks.
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotparty.com/
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocracy.com/index.php?option=content&task...
"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
Pill imprint reads....
Pride.
Swallow your pride.
Ghetto quote
Same time, I don't know you man.
:)
All things considered, it looks like time is running short to get on most ballots and raise awareness.
Thanks for confirming that Ron Paul wasn't just hype, and challenging me to check more out.
If Nader
does not start a political movement or party, his running for ideas would only be relevant till November...
problem with parties
I think some Greens turned on him close to the last minute once, because they made an agreement with the democrats not to run anyone seriously.
One big problem
with Nader is that he still seems to be a Keyenist. The money-issue and the Federal Reserve system is at the root of the problem, as Ron Paul has pointed out and get the biggest applause for this, perhaps more even than the anti-war policy. The two are of course related: the US has much higher expenses with a war as a country, while certain corporations make millions/billions out of it. The issue that would stop that in its stracks is when the inflation is combatted and the Fed cannot unendlessly print money: then the govt. cannot spend money that they do not have on wars....
i don't know
Nader says watch them, and watch them closely. I assume, operating correctly, under the oversight and conscious awareness of the people, the federal reserve has some purpose. I say the same thing for Nader. He has been scarred so much from fighting the system, I want to watch him closely. At one time, GM hired prostitutes to compromise him, and he sued then and used the money to start citizen awareness groups. I'm sure he used some of it for himself too, at least I hope so.
Nader = unacceptable marxist, at
any speed.
_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."
For real?
He wants to cut the government to a fraction of it's current size, cut taxes, remove the patriot powers, and thinks it can still do some good for the people. That sounds like compasionate converatism to me. About half our taxes are spent on wars that cause the need for more taxes and more wars in a goofy cycle. Plus, other people in the world are real, and causing them grief unnecessarily causes us grief.
If you want to tell me how he's corrupted, or lying, or something real, please do so. Also, tell the world, we don't need to be tricked again, as we're looking for real hope. If we can't find a real controlled, capitalistic representative, maybe we'll think about this marxist thing, but I wouldn't get that desparate just yet. Actually, so far, I think that everyone that claims that is a trickster.
Obama's movement seems to think they are some sort of "marxist" movement, but they are so far off it's sadly funny.
Mr. Nader has dedicated the better part of his adult life
to growing the power of the central government. He likes to fashion a different mask for each period but, when it comes to asking him "how" he would accomplish this or that of his objectives, his answer has always been built upon expansion of the size and power of the central government and, in listening to 40+ years of his creative phrasology, his underlying means has never waivered. He has been consistent. I will give him that.
_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."
fool and folly
because he has a better answer than "do nothing"? It's not his fault if children can't use leggos.
There Is Real Dialog Going On Here
To my mind it is too early for a true revolutionary to decide where to place a vote that may take place in November. It is not too early to discuss who is with us and who is against us; to get our minds right and help those of right mind; to pursue right purpose with right action.
We are not able to divine the future...but right here, right now if we keep our aims high, the right end will be achieved.
I say we don't focus on policy, or even principled differences. Rather, there are those awakening and those who still sleep. There are those who think and those complacent to allow others to do the thinking for them. You see the difference isn’t really left and right at this point; and our mission is beyond that polemic.
As those of good faith and revolutionary spirit come together as colleagues to accomplish real reclamation of rights, I trust that our memories of the true differences between the ‘boot stamping on a human face’ vs. the blue sky which free debate and inquiry promises will ultimately allow OUR fundamental principles to secure the blessings of liberty with the help of our new friends from the left.
From the one who warned us of the stifling power and influence of the Military-Industrial Complex:
“May we pursue the right, without self-righteousness. May we know unity, without conformity. May we grow in strength, without pride in self. May we, in all our dealings with all people of the earth, ever speak truth and serve justice.”
--- Dwight D. Eisenhower
light it up (the torch of liberty, i mean)
I believe many here are of good faith, and want a solution. I do sense some thinking we can do this "revolution" without the will of the people, leaving an elite minority to figure it out. That won't work for many reasons, I hope you can see. You will need the public's help.
Obama is what happens when "movements" are done by an elite minority, who claim to do the will of the people, but leave it out.
I do agree though, it is to early to make any choices, other than what we'll do right now. I also propose just waking others up, from any "side", and looking at our options. This struggle has gone on for a long, long time, and just maybe, it won't happen resolve without you. On the other hand, if we think only one "side" has the ultimate answer, I doubt it will go any further. Almost everything's been tried but working together. I do really mean almost, as who knows, just more people aware, and following their own light is what we need. All I know is the few are not enough.
"Almost everything's been
"Almost everything's been tried but working together. I do really mean almost, as who knows, just more people aware, and following their own light is what we need.".............
Some see this thread as an endorsement for Ralph Nader. And perhaps it started out that way. But it has changed. Thanks to your input, we are seeing the potential of working together. Of trying to fix what's broke for the good of our country.... Not what is best for the Party. Ron Paul's message is so powerful that any voter who will forget about Party loyalty for a minute, would see the power in the message in spite of the fact that one does not have to agree with him on every issue. With mutual respect and the willingness to learn, who knows what we could accomplish?
As far as Ralph Nader, I will do some research to see what you and others, like so much about him. It is only fair.
I can sum it up. He's
I can sum it up. He's anti-establishment. He's fought for ballot access and debate access. He understands what representative government is and that we are not getting it. If power should ever befall Nader he would not withhold a signature to endorse the necessary laws it would take to restore voter confidence. Universal National Ballot Access, Fair Debate Access, power to the people to withhold consent with a binding "None of the Above" on the ballot, and paper trail on all votes cast.
Same is true for any 3rd/independent party candidate. These parties still fight for ballot access and will be lucky to get debate access. Any of these candidates would back these proposals. The major parties will not.
What your final verdict of Nader is, is irrelevant. What is relevant is that his diehard following could grow from disenfranchised Democrats not happy with their choice this year. We have absolutely nothing to fear from Nader. He is not our enemy. He cannot take votes away from our cause. He can only take them away from the Democrats.
If some Democrats that are not happy get wise they can support Nader without hurting their own side when they know we are not supporting McCain in any way shape or form, ever.
We should be encouraging Nader and his fans to get involved with making sure we have a clean and competitive election. Try to view things with an open mind. Try to imagine how things should be and not as they are. In fact try to imagine the final debate before the November election to be between Nader and Paul as all other contenders had to drop out for lack of enthusiasm.
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotparty.com/
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocracy.com/index.php?option=content&task...
"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
Aaaaaaaaaaah. If only...........
“May we pursue the right, without self-righteousness. May we know unity, without conformity. May we grow in strength, without pride in self. May we, in all our dealings with all people of the earth, ever speak truth and serve justice.”
--- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Don't hold your breath Ralph
If Ron Pauls wanted to vote for a socialist they might as well pick Obama.
Nader is a waste. He is depressing too.
Darn it! As a huge voting bloc, we need a consensus on who to...
vote for. But as of now until the St Paul conventionS..I'm steadfast on voting RP.
Didn't he ask you not to?
If that was true, a wasted vote seems silly to him too. What's the "for now" plan?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/021556.html
I'm more of a "silly dreamer" and even I think it's more productive to think about and discuss whose actually running, and learn our options, until some other option comes along. At least even if he doesn't get to represent "republicans", they can't blame the election on Nader voters if the republicans win. God that would be progress.
Please, if this is any kind of real “revolution”, only vote for McCain if you believe, honestly, he’s the #2 guy out of everybody in America best for president. At least if you write in your real choice, you're helping a true, representative president, who can't afford to get on all the ballets get in someday. Dr. Paul or Nader would be welcome to me and many I think.
Please, let me "go left" a minute, to show you this is real.
I still think this “100% free market, no restrictions” is a little exploitive. A lot of people with capital have it based on labor of others, and there are still repercussions of slavery. I’m sure they made sound fiscal choices, but you can’t tell me, even with “free market”, the Rockefellers or Bushes have had no extra advantage to somebody who's family was started penniless in a capitalist society. Reparations weren’t honored completely. Wasn’t it a horse and plot of land for each, or some small, simple promise? What’s the inflation on that? That’s just part of America; we stole the land from Native Americans too. Even with the "double talk" tricks, how much of America is legally the Native Americans' based on broken treaties? That’s why to some Obama “makes everything seem better”, without having to do anything.
I don't want to argue if it's good or bad, just to tell you these are fundamentals to some "lefties". So that said, if Dr. Paul wins, I don’t agree with everything, but it would be so much better than the fake options some are only now realizing we've been told, and somehow a partial fix to the corruptions that caused the above (not the consequence, but it will stop them from piling up). If we can't have a democracy, a real republic would probably be OK comparatively, from what I’ve read.
Full disclosure
So that' some of the crazy left stuff. I'm willing just to get a representative government back, and I know many left would view it as a breath of fresh air. We're in the present. These "intervention" bombings have been going on since Reagan, or before, and definately continued through Clinton, so there is no bias. they are part of the stuff that I think Dr. Paul and others are saying is contributing to terrorism. If you can not fall for a fake Liberty person that wants war and Patriot Action, I think you'll have some allies on the left. We've been burnt with Obama though, so we need someone we can trust.
http://www.antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=6712
Welcome.
Thank you for joining in. Your insight and reasonable explanations can only help the r3volution, not hurt it.
One conversation I had recently with an Obama supporter went like this: He approached me with an enormous smile and said that he heard that I was a delegate for Ron Paul. He excitedly proclaimed that he was a delegate for Obama. He then went on to praise Ron Paul and Ron Paul's supporters. The conversation was entirely about why Ron Paul was spot on in regard to the Iraq War. All was good until I asked him what he thought about the Patriot Act. His answer was, that it was to protect Americans from terrorists.
When I offered him my thoughts, his smile disappeared and his arms crossed. I knew to let the subject drop. He needed to do some research. I pleasantly suggested that he could easily read up on it by going to the ronpaullibrary. I believe if he chooses to read up on the Patriot Act, he will realize that our rights are seriously under threat by this administration.
I know that he is spellbound by Senator Obama. That may never change. But how can it hurt if the Obama supporters learn more about these issues?
Let's Stop Carping And Hang With The Riff Raff On The Left
Most of us well understand that majorities will oppress, which, of course, is why our republic, when functioning properly, must balance the power. But there is little doubt our republic isn’t functioning in any way which even approximates balance.
Historically, it took Jeffersonian democracy to reset the federalist excesses and Jacksonian, populist and progressive reforms to check the oligarchs during other episodes of restoration. At this point, I don’t fear the rising tide of resentment we can hope will achieve critical mass and counter the status quo which we know is tyranny.
Think of our experience in the GOP conventions. We don’t suffer from too much democracy, but too little. If our people of good faith are part of the populist rebellions which will emerge we can ride the tiger rather than just grab it by the tail when it goes on a rampage.
The people on the left who are of good faith, we can influence. As for the bad element, it’s best we pull in close and be alert.
Let’s find others, wherever they are to be found, who aspire to be part of the solution…. And hang tight.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/52931#comment-523872
I'm willing to try
I agree, LibBerte, and admit I am just starting to understand the "right" perspective. I come from a lifetime of seeing the other side, and can also admit something is wrong and we all want our government back. Republic, democracy, it cannot be run on lies. If we are going to have to have representatives, they can't be controlled by the same people that control the media. It is a democracy of coersion, however you want to look at it. I must hope the people can straighten this out, you included, because I don't see anybody just doing it for us.
As long as most people are tricked, you don't even have real representatives. Look at what happend to Dr. Paul, as soon as he started questioning the lack of reasoning and law.
Joint effort.
I have always believed that the Obama supporters were ripe for the R3volution. The reason I believe that is because the Obama supporters I have talked with don't seem to possess the same "party loyalty above all else" that McCain and Clinton supporters seem to have. The Republicans at the GOP meetings and conventions went out of their way to make sure that we all understood that party loyalty was expected and not to be questioned. We were not welcome if we disagreed.
But just as I had to do, the Obama supporters will have to do research on the issues, but I believe that this is possible to achieve. I believe with some knowledge about the erosion of our rights under George W. Bush and this Congress, we could come together. I think a joint effort is quite possible.
I, too was was intrigued by the Trevor Lyman project. http://www.dailypaul.com/node/52931#comment-523872 And why couldn't one of our good writers perhaps run this by the folks at dailykos? If it means a possible solution to some of the serious problems the American people face, I am all for it.......... Just my opinion.
My thought
Coming from the left, I can say most Obama supporters are only still supporters because they want to believe the delusion. There has been enough going around to know his money is not magically appearing from this "internet world", and it is being bundled from corporate companies. Even McCain is not mentioning this for some reason.
Obama supporters are currently fanatics. "If a black man is president, there can't be anything wrong". I think we are coming from different worlds, so I won't even try to explain this, other than it's genious.
Some may be willing to switch, but their support is not based on reason, obviously. A corrupt Chicago politician with no record, other than a bad one, saying he'll stop the corruption, even though his staff is full of "former lobbyists", and the money is coming from employees of the same companies.
It is not reason, whatever it is. They want to believe. Do you have people like that where you come from?
Doublethink Rightleft
“The keyword here is blackwhite. Like so many Newspeak words, this word has two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past, made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the rest, and which is known in Newspeak as doublethink. Doublethink is basically the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”
– Orwell’s 1984, Part II, chapter IX - chapter I of Goldstein's book
NICE
OKAY LETS 25% OF US VOTE BARR, 20% BALDWIN, 17% NADER 8% MCCAIN, 3% OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yay.
Ha
Baldwin opens his mouth and Ron Paul falls out .....
Chuck Baldwin is the logical extension of the Ron Paul campaign -
Chuck Baldwin is the only guy out there keeping the Freedom Message
alive!
Baldwin is not an RP clone.
His writings indicate that he is for government involvement on moral issues. That is anti-liberty and stifles free will. Whithout all the votes from the "dirty liberal" side, tyranny prevails once again.
VOTE PACT - http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/06/18/votepact/