I am looking for information on running my car on water
Submitted by lynnopoly on Sun, 06/15/2008 - 19:33I remember a post a short while back that spoke about converting a car to run almost completely on water. Has anyone tried this, or does anyone know about the validity of the claim? Does it work on all vehicles? Can anyone build the converter from the kit?
From what I remember the instructions for the kit was like $50 and the parts ran around $60. Is this right? I can't find that post.
I found a few web-sites but I am looking for the DP'ers to set me straight.
Thanks ya'll
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Most people claiming these
Most people claiming these things are just out for cash. I'd love to see a real working prototype of such technology but never have.
LindaC
Lemon Grove auto glass repair
I signed up as an affiliate with these guys
They sell a complete "kit" as well as products to help maintain...
http://www.befreetech.com/jamaffiliates/jrox.php?uid=wildblue
"Unite Or Die"..
Good luck
The car is innately entropic, meaning it's a chaotic beast of disorganization. You can improve such a diaster of engineering but in general you have to start over from scratch.
Most people claiming these things are just out for cash. I'd love to see a real working prototype of such technology but never have.
Again, the internal combustion engine is the problem.
It's like saying how can you make a nuclear fission reactor better -- well you could integrate a plasma generator (i.e. man-made lightening) reactor to neutralize the nuclear waste. But why do that if you could just created a nuclear fusion machine>?
From what I have read, the
From what I have read, the technology of running your car on water was originally discovered by Nicola Tesla. Nicola found out that hydrogen can be extracted from water to produce energy. And because cars are fueled with energy, it was discovered that cars can actually be fueled by water.
You can purchase a hydrogen on demand system for as low as $200. The way gas prices are right now, you could fill up your car just four or five times for $200. But this system allows you to constantly have cars that run on water. Not only will it save you at the tank, but this system will also save you from having to spend $30,000 on a new hybrid car.
In addition to the amount of money you save, you will also be helping the environment. Running your car on straight gasoline is not good for the environment at all. But spitting out water will reduce your emissions and cause less global warming.
sacramento auto glass
Helping the enviroment?
Helping the enviroment? CO2 is carbon dioxide, the stuff your lungs and plants need to live. CO2 is 95% water. I suppose you believe in man made global warming too...
"The price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance"- Thomas Jefferson
There is no Left or Right -- there is only freedom or tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you." - Philip Brennan
"Invest only in things that you can stand in front of and pr
Got some ocean front property on the moon I'm sellin!
Don't waste your time. You'd need to pull a nuclear reactor to have the energy to crack water in a sufficient volume to run an engine. Even with plasma hydrogen generators it's not real. There is no free energy. These people trying to sell these kits or plans just rely on the dupes to pay the initial. I even saw a car with a ton of wind turbines mounted on the outside claiming it made enough wind energy going down the road to power it. Un true of course. Putting those "fans" all over the car wasted any aerodynamics the car had which would take alot more energy to push through the air.
There are hydrogen
There are hydrogen conversion plans you can buy for 50 bucks. I have not done it, but a friend of mine converted a Ford Tarus, SHO V8 engine and his highway mileage went from 17 to 26 mpg two years ago and hasn't had any problems.
www.water4gas.com
"The price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance"- Thomas Jefferson
There is no Left or Right -- there is only freedom or tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you." - Philip Brennan
"Invest only in things that you can stand in front of and pr
Maybe This Can Help You
I've actually done quite a lot of experimentation in this arena. There are several ways of "running a car off of water":
1) Fuel Cell - convert water to electricity to drive an electric motor (electric car).
2) HHO Gas Injection - inject HHO gas into the air intake (vehicle still uses gasoline). This yields an improvement in gas mileage, a slightly cooler-running engine and slightly more power.
3) Water Splitter Plug - injects water right up to the cylinders. Just before cylinder entry, a special injection mechanism fractures the water at a molecular level, yielding HHO gas into the chamber. A gentleman by the name of Stan Meyer invented this and had a dune buggy running this configuration for years (he has since passed away).
I assume you're talking about something like #2. In this case you'll need to build or purchase a "hydrolyzer", which is simply a mechanism for passing electric current through water to split it into separate hydrogen and oxygen molecules. There are various configurations for such a device and people are coming up with new ones every day. Meyer's much more efficient version of this is called a water capacitor. Be careful as there are a lot of people on YouTube and various sales web sites selling junk versions at steep prices.
The challenge with HHO gas injection is generating enough of it "on the fly" to run a large engine (bigger than a lawn mower) purely on the HHO gas itself (with no gasoline). The unit to produce this volume on demand and the electrical current consumed by such a unit is highly impractical. Producing HHO in advance and storing it is not feasible because (a) when stored it reverts back to water/water vapor, and (b) storing a volatile gas like hydrogen with a ready supply of oxygen in the same container is very dangerous. Based on these challenges, most people settle for generating a supplemental volume of HHO on-the-fly and injecting it into the air intake stream (to ultimately mix with the air/gasoline). However, unless you know a bit about modern engines (and how to program them) then there are more challenges.
There is the challenge of spark timing. In a stock (unmodified, no HHO) engine, the spark plug fires as the piston travels upward, just before it reaches the top of the travel. The reason for this early firing is because of the rate at which gasoline expands when it burns. Igniting the gasoline just before the piston reaches the top ensures that the "flamefront" of the burn reaches the piston at the right time. Hydrogen, however, when burned, expands at a rate approximately 8,000 times faster than gasoline. So, because the flamefront reaches the piston much faster with hydrogen in the mix, firing the spark plug before the piston reaches the top of its travel can actually cause pinging and reduce power, not to mention cracking a piston, warping/cracking a combustion chamber, blowing a head gasket, damaging a head and et cetera. It is extremely important to retard (delay) combustion with hydrogen in the mix. This is generally done with an OBDII "tuner" device. I use XCalibrator from SCT (www.sctflash.com). It is important to understand the spark tables, spark rules (open loop versus closed loop), spark sources and the interpolation processes before tampering with spark timing! Generally you'll want to retard your spark timing around 11-13 degrees across the board (all the timing tables for all loads, RPM bands, IAT ranges and et cetera) - then gradually advance the timing in 1/2 degree increments until the engine runs as desired. Pay EXTREME attention for pinging (listen for it or data log your knock sensors if your vehicle is equipped with them). Once you just barely begin to detect pinging, retard timing back 2 degrees. This is a slow trial and error process, making small adjustments at a time in conjunction with lots of test driving and data logging.
Another challenge with HHO injection is that, because of the change in burn characteristics inside the combustion chamber, you'll end up a different exhaust mix, which essentially "fools" the oxygen sensors into thinking that more oxygen is being drawn into the engine than is really being drawn. In order to maintain stoichiometric air/fuel mixture (14.64:1), the sensor will then tell the PCM to dump in more fuel (gasoline). Some extra fuel is okay to reduce pinging and make the combustion chambers run a little cooler, but with too much extra fuel (a "rich" condition) you can foul out the spark plugs and even put your cylinders in "washdown" (not good!). So some recalibration (programming) of the oxygen sensors is required as well. A wideband device is immensely helpful (although not required) in this area.
As it pertains to all the engine programming you'll be doing, you have to consider that you're tweaking your engine to run with HHO injection. If you lose the HHO supply (if your HHO generator breaks, or if you're out in the middle of nowhere and run out of water or electrolyte or whatever) then the engine will be very sluggish (and may not run at all). It certainly will not run the way it did "stock" until you restore the factory programming.
I have heard of some people buying/building HHO generators and "slapping them on as-is" with no programming/calibration. In such cases, the HHO generators are not producing much HHO gas. However, if your device produces a lot of HHO gas then there is the chance that so much current is required that an alternator upgrade would be needed.
As for the construction of the device, there are many different configurations. I came up with one that is a variation of Meyers' (although mine is not nearly as efficient, but definitely more efficient than many I've seen around the web). I found everything I needed at Ace Hardware and spent a total of $73 for everything (although I added a few bells and whistles that are generally not required and not included in the packages you'll find online). The HHO gas is injected into the intake body, downwind of the MAF and IAT sensors (as close as possible to the throttle body).
The general rule of thumb when making HHO gas is low voltage/high amperage. Also, use a "clean" electrolyte such as distilled vinegar or baking soda. Salt and others can be used, but will turn your water supply brown and sludgy. And MAKE SURE to use backflow check valves and flame suppressors with your device. You don't want an explosion under your hood. :) Use stainless steel or plastic everywhere you can - otherwise your HHO generator will not last long due to corrosion (from the electrolysis process). Make sure your device is electrically isolated from the rest of your electrical system (fuse or circuit breaker, current limiter and et cetera). HHO generators can draw lots of current (especially if you overdo it on adding electrolyte). You don't want the device to cause electrical problems elsewhere in the system. Finally, make sure you have the proper plumbing set up that will only allow HHO gas to enter your air stream. You don't want to dump water from your reservoir into your engine!
With all of the above said, HHO injection does work. I have a mildly-modified 4.6 liter V-8, which was producing around 340 horsepower before adding the HHO injection setup. I have a 12 gallon gas tank and consistently get right at 84 miles further out of a tank of gas with HHO injection than without. I would probably see more gain if I could learn to keep my foot out of the accelerator pedal, but what fun is that? :)
I have since, however, removed the setup from my car because I wanted to use the HHO generator for other experiments. It definitely will go back on the car when I'm done playing with it.
If you like I can send you my specs on the generator and related electronics and plumbing. If so, send me a message.
Has anyone tested this on a dynamometer?
There's a chance that the HHO gas could result in more efficient burning of the gasoline, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Does anyone have a link to an independent lab report of the mileage achieved before and after this retrofit?
-jcr
"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel
What you are talking about
What you are talking about is brown gas, or a hybrid hydrogen conversion. Try this webite water4gas.com. I have not done this, but I have a friend who has, and it was sucessful. The gas milage you get depends on the size of the electrodes. My friend has a Ford tarus SHO V8, he increased his gas mileage from 19 to 31 mpg. When he got his car smogged, the technician pooped in his pants it was so clean.
Good luck, it works.
"The price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance"- Thomas Jefferson
There is no Left or Right -- there is only freedom or tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you." - Philip Brennan
"Invest only in things that you can stand in front of and pr
I've studied this and played with it...
I built the design from JLN Naudin.
Now.. you need to understand a few things.
#1 - you are pulling energy from your motor using your alternator to make browns gas via electrolysis. There is a cost to your motor and this will slightly increase your fuel usage.
#2 - your results will vary on this stuff and you will spend more time and money than you will recoup.
#3 - you will replace the plates often as they will corrode from the chemical reaction within the chamber.
#4 - you need more than just water and 12vdc power. You will have to use a catalyst to increase the rate of the reaction - NaOH - good old sodium hydroxide.
So the question is - will you have a net gain within the system after you use slightly more gasoline as the alternator meets resistance doing the hydrolysis ? It seems that there is a net gain from what i've read, but that net gain does not get me excited personally. You are making a highly combustible gas very close to a hot engine.
Be careful.
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#3, and #4
The solution to problem #3 is to use electrodes plated with gold or platinum. I used carbon, but this causes its own problems (high resistance, meaning lots of ohmic heating, and the consequent loss of energy).
#4, I used magnesium sulfate for my electrolyte, as the reduction potentials of its ions are much higher than that of both hydrogen and oxygen.
My Shelfari page
From a perspective of chemistry...
You will never be able to run anything on the chemical power of water alone. Never. You must first put energy into the water to make it usable as fuel.
There is a body of physical law called Thermodynamics. Specifically, I'm going to attack this from the perspective of the First and Second Laws.
The First Law states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. There is no free lunch. It takes energy (lots, actually) to make your car move forward. So that energy must come from somewhere.
The Second Law states that Entropy always increases. In English: When you make energy change forms (chemical potential in gas to kinetic energy in moving your car), you lose a certain percentage of the energy as useless heat.
Now a little about water. Every chemical compound has a specific amount of energy inherent in its formation. This energy is called the Enthalpy of Formation. Elements have an EoF equal to zero. So....
H2 gas = 0 KJ/mol
O2 gas = 0 KJ/mol
Water, not being an element, has a non-zero EoF. According to Wikipedia, that value is -285.8 KJ/mol. The minus sign indicates that when water is formed from elements, that it will release energy. Lots of energy. 1 mole of liquid water is about 18.01mL at standard temperature and pressure. So burning enough hydrogen to create that 18mL of water releases 285.8 KJ of heat energy (but might also be electrical, as in a fuel-cell).
Because joules aren't in common use in most circles, I will express this in horsepower. If you built a water engine that produced one mole of liquid water (18mL) per second from nothing but hydrogen and oxygen, that motor would produce about 388.58 horsepower... assuming 100% efficiency.
285.8 kilojoules-per-second = 285.8 kilowatts...
1 horsepower = 735.5 watts...
Now for the bummer: You need to split 18mL of water per second to feed that engine. And that takes....
1 watt = 1 volt x 1 amp... So for 285.8kilowatts...
The reduction potential of water into HHO is about 1.5 volts, so string 8 cells in series for your vehicle's 12 volt system...
comes out to 35,725 amps.
Can your alternator push 35,000 amps?
If so, how much energy does it take your gasoline motor to turn the alternator?
How heavy is the water you are using for feed-stock? Gotta push that too.
So to run your car off water, you will need to collect all that energy from somewhere. You would be best off producing the HHO at home and bottling it for use in your car. That may actually be feasible.
The point is: There is a reason we don't power cars off water. You would improve your gas millage more by disconnecting your alternator to free up the mechanical energy to move the car forward.
My Shelfari page
And then there is the real world, where cars run on water
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBm8ogwnpG0
We have all been lied to. Our area of expertise tends to be our biggest blind spot. We are smart, we studied hard, and we have the respect of our peers. We KNOW.... except we were deliberately lied to.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
An object lesson
Decades ago, the math department at the University of Houston had a counter in the front office. On it were a box with a slot in the lid and next to that was a slot cut through the counter top. The box was labeled "Theorems." The slot was labeled "Trisecting an Angle."
You see, people frequently walked in off the street to present their work. The most popular item was a method of trisecting an angle with a compass and straight edge. It was well known that the problem had been proved conclusively to be impossible. But people still came with their proofs, insisting that someone take a look. "Just drop it in the slot," was the reply.
Stand Meyers did it and
Stand Meyers did it and others are now close to doing it also. this will get perfected eventually and people will be able to run there cars from it without gasoline.
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Get Prepared!
Only dead fish go with the flow...
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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!
Get Prepared!
I think
You might say that we don't understand enough yet to use water as a direct source of energy in a combustion engine. I think, from a stoichiometric perspective, that water contains quite a lot of energy, considering the heat you get when you oxidize hydrogen.
Stan Myers possibly developed a method of using peak capacitor failure to crack the bond by pulsing the charge. He also had a number of other items designed into the process (of which I'm largely ignorant) . My personal belief is that we'll find an inert catalyst that will allow a process of cracking the water without via electrolysis without the heavy amps.
I recall...
I recall reading another experimenter's notes on this topic. Since separating the O and H isn't important for this application, the guy was using AC. He varied the frequency of the current. From what I gathered, he was trying to "shake" the water apart, with limited success. Unfortunately, he was unable to cheat Nature, but did arrive at a higher conversion efficiency using current from his wall (already AC).
This much I can say for sure: Using AC will limit the losses you incur due to resistive losses in the circuit. BUT, there is still the problem of losses when converting your car's DC into AC. That loss can be reduced to less than 5% with careful circuit design.
I hope you are right about the catalyst. Such a material would go a long way toward alleviating the costs of our energy needs.
My Shelfari page
a good place to start
He are some people that work with it....
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/
a good place to start your journey...its a long road and not completely discovered yet but many are still working on it.
DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON KITS!....most are just scams
Google "Smack Boost""... his works, but not 100%... you still use gas.
Look at this guy and what he made....
http://www.wkrg.com/consumer/article/water_for_gas_is_it_a_p...
Enjoy,
No cars run in all water it,
No cars run in all water it, is boosting the gasoline burn with hydroxy gas for a more efficient burn and it works thousands myself included are doing it. I second Smacks booster look it up he has website
http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/
I have a Smack booster and it works but it takes some tinkering to install it. People are getting any where from a few more miles more to the gallon to up to 80 miles to the gallon. It all depends on your vehicle and the size unit you are using. There is no one size fits all every vehicle is different.
-----
Get Prepared!
Only dead fish go with the flow...
-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!
Get Prepared!
hey lynn....
any luck with this ? ( I know this thread.. is old...and all but thought I would ask)
please let me know.....
thanks
JackParkman probably knows about it
Cause he always has so much to offer. Oruval knows about it but he never contributed anything.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
why is it that truth.. sometimes hits the funny bone...
too funny!! (although sad as well....)
Contributing?
Good job.
Great question!
Here try this. Jim is a dear, sweet friend of mine.
These are some of his 'free energy' inventions and projects:
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/index.html
Send me an email and I'll see if you can contact him direct.
It's total nonsense.
It's total nonsense.
And what's with the obscene name-calling in this thread? This is the exact kind of thing that Sunny is talking about. Moderators, do your duty.
I think that the problem
I think that the problem with this stuff is that it constantly see people talking of how they are about to test it out. And the only examples I've seen that come close involve people installing this system and getting a couple percent better gas mileage. Where is someone with a car I can come and see? I think that it is impossible to bring this to the global market.
New Jersey Auto Glass
Linda, you may be unaware of what goes on in this realm of
what is called, 'free energy'.
The Rockefellers monopolized our entire system. There are literally thousands of 'free energy' devices, engines, systems to go off the grid based on Tesla's ideas, that are 'underground'. These people making these things absolutely cannot market them.
I invite all of you to view the video from the 90's called, 'The Race to Zero Point Energy'.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7365305906535911834
Like I said above, the Rockefellers have 'monopolized' our entire free markets. We have no 'free markets' at least right now.
Those who are seriously interested in converting their engines may do so entirely on your own. However, you may not want to bring this in to the dealer after wards. Unless you want a visit with a couple of black suited guys who will want to see 'your engine'.
Youtube has videos on homemade HHO cells.
This technology uses HHO cells and from what I've seen it does work but will only give you a tiny increase in mpg. You could properly inflate your tires and get the same kind of increase. There are lots of things you could do such as tune ups to make sure you car is running in tip top shape and get the same increase. If you are doing all of that stuff already then sure HHO cells could help but I've seen youtube video's of them exploding too so be careful.
Youtube is a really neat place to find information about alternative energy sources including building your own wind turbine, solar arrays, hydro turbine (if you are fortunate to have a running creek nearby). Lots of things about it.
12%- 50%
... fuel mileage improvement is not tiny. Every soon to be worthless dollar counts these days and for the minimal costs (less than $100) you could save gas, get more performance (10%-20%) and clean up exhaust emmisions (NO carbon). What's not to like? Please don't marginalize and dismiss this as a futile waste of time. HHO is an alternative to a $40,000 hybrid vehicle that will still spew CO2 from the tailpipe and have battery issues down the road at some point.