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*** Ron Paul picks Giuliani as running mate (Kucinich reported as "shocked") ***

This post is to prove a point about how not everything that makes the forums should make the front page of Daily Paul. The system wherein any drivel that gets posted on the forum immediately makes the front page needs to go.

The current system leads to nothing but give a megaphone to people who would undermine community efforts...

examples: "give to my chipin", Nov 5th detractors, and "can I do this obviously illegal thing to promote Ron Paul?" type messages.

To insure that my point is made, I'll throw a "first" after this one.

So, site operators, how about we get this under control ASAP?

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Michael Nystrom's picture

Foolish

You are right about one thing - you do sound foolish. I don't mean to be rude, but I have to question how "net savvy" you are if you think that "Forum Topics" means official news. I would love to see Bilo or Hannity make the same mistake of blowing an unofficial forum topic out of proportion into news, because they'd be the laughing stock of the media!

To those who want censorship, and want an easy life with someone else doing all their thinking for them, so they can have it be decided for them what to read and what to think, I've got bad news for you. This is not the place for you. Sorry.

The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. - Alan Watts

Goober

I know it makes me sound foolish, but when I was first guided here by a fellow Paul supporter, I actually read the "forum topics" area as being actual news... I also remember thinking "who thought this was good enough to hit the main page?"

So if I (a net savvy Paul supporter) was to make that mistake, I know that Bilo or Hannity could do the same.

I agree, and I didn't fall for the trick!

As soon as I saw your headline, I thought "this is bullshit."

And I'm very glad to support the point you are making. I've seen
really good stories, very informative posts, disappear quickly at
the expense of some dribble with a sensational headline:

"HELP ME, MY DIAPERS ARE WET!"

As an example. Yes, I support any mechanism that can keep
this valuable forum productive and on target. I support censorship,
if that's what it takes to keep this forum valuable, constructive,
and informative.

MSM

Also, if you haven't noticed, the MSM is putting a lot of focus on the online efforts of Paul supporters... going as far as calling us spam bots..

Why give FOX any more ammo by having things on the homepage that they could easily spin as an edict to the Ron Paul community... to break the law in an effort to promote Ron Paul...

I can totally see Hannity or Bilo doing a segment on some misunderstood topic subject that splashed across the header of this site and skewing it to mean something totally different then what was intended.

I am not asking for censorship, just a more guided effort to only put actually news forth as this sites focus... not someone trying to find wheels for a 92 Celica or foolish things that hurt our effort.

Panties in knots...

The fact that people are upset about the point I'm making backs up the very point I'm trying to make.

WHY even have active forum topics on the front page? Since it's totaly on autopilot, there is no control over what makes it on to the front page of this site... a site visited by MANY MANY fans of Doctor Paul. Do we really need stuff on the main page with people trying to fan the flames of doing illegal things (posting on street signs) in the name of promoting Ron?

No... we don't.

I understand that this is a one man show, but as mentioned by several folks below, there are free addons that would "digg like" features to allow users to control what makes the front page.

As for my Nov 5 detractors comment... for about a week there, a concerted effort was made by certain members of this site (as well as other Ron Paul fan sites) to discredit and undermine the Nov 5th effort... this included creating closer deadlines for donations to try and draw funds away from the larger effort. All manner of FUD was used to try and and hurt the great effort... and it made the front page here more times than I can count.

Do we need this type of thing on the front page?

No... we don't.

speaking of "digg"

nice little dig at the anti-Nov 5th people (of which I am a proud member)

saying that we are trying to discredit anything is lying.

we are as focused on the "great effort" as you (unless you define the "great effort" as something other than getting Ron in the white house)

we just differ in our beliefs as to the best way to achieve this.

being anti Nov 5th DOES NOT mean we are anti ron or anti the campaign. Just means we thing the Nov 5th will do more harm than good.

Micheal, First let me say thank you.

You have done and continue to do an excellent job here. So much so in fact that this website has become the de facto HQ for many in the unnoficial grassroots movement. It is a tribute to your hard work. I also agree with your post about growing pains and this issue seems to be a prime example.

I think that a large concern here is that this site has become so legitimate(having been mentioned in an article about the campaign) that many fear that media sources and trolls will mistake what is posted here for the official campaign line or the mainstream thought of the Dr.'s supporters. It might be assumed in some cases that you moderate and endorse some of these posts.

I agree that this is a great free market of ideas. I just get frustrated when the Ill thought out actions of a few reflect badly on the campaign as a whole.

Anyway, I guess my point is that I agree with you on the whole Digg type idea and join you in your call to anyone with the tech skills to get it done.

I know you're out there guys, let's get this done.

And again, thank you for your hard work here. It is greatly appreciated.

----------------------------------------------------------------
A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
~Mahatma Gandhi

Michael,

I think the way it is is fine. it's clear that it's "active forum topics"... it's not being reported as news, etc...

Digg style lends itself to mob mentality too easily...

any intelligent discourse gets stifled.

Look up my post history and you see i very often disagree with the majority on what i see as viable points.

What Tarantula wants is VERY dangerous... "Nov 5th detractors"?!?!!? So we're at that point where we take blind obedience to the Nov 5th type ideas as dogma and anyone voicing a differing opinion just HAS to be a troll or "plant"? That type of closed mindedness is what I would hope to avoid.

Right...

Everythings pretty fine atm. It's just when the trolls come a marching in, and disturbing the peace that it becomes a problem. Hence, - a reporting system, is what is needed. :D

but how do you know who is a troll?!?!

I'm sick of getting in the same debate but Michael, please please understand:

not everyone against the Nov 5th idea is a troll.. there are very viable objections to it. (no, not "fear of govt", not "trying to break our spirits from the inside", etc)

not everyone against promoting that Hutton Gibson or even Mel Gibson supports Ron is a troll, there are also very viable objections here as well.

I personally am sick of people preaching one thing re: Ron's ideas yet when it comes to practice they expect blind obedience and assume any objections or attempt to have an internal conversation among Ron Paul fans is somehow "trolling".

Michael Nystrom's picture

Thank you

Thank you Evan42, for being one of the few around here who "get it."

Personally, I would say that the behavior that Tarantulas is engaged in is "Trolling"

1. Offensive/ misleading/ inflammatory headline
2. Continually bumping his own thread

Obviously he did it to make a point, but I think the point he made is one that is opposite to the one he intended.

The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. - Alan Watts

it's really a judgement call for you...

...considering it's your site and all..

but the Digg system is one where it allows the majority to control... and clearly the majority will prefer such a system

the pros of a Digg system would be that it would present a more consistent face of ron paul supporters to any newbies who stumble across this site... they don't see us arguing and discussing ideas.. they don't see our dirty laundry aired.

However the minuses would be that it would cease to be a viable place for such dirty laundry to be aired... it would just be a marketing site where we all pretend we all agree and are all smiles.

I personally am only in it for the first reason: I am VERY active in my support of Ron Paul and see several things that the grassroots do that HINDERS us (in my humble opinion). I like having a forum where I can present my opinion and hear counter arguments. However, the drawback is that any site that allows this does allow anyone to stumble across it and see our little bickering.

They would see people like me blatantly against associating Ron with Guy Fawkes, Hutton Gibson, or Stormfront... they would hear my opinion that we, at the grassroots level SHOULD be more conscious of how we are perceived by the MSM and undecided voters... that when trying to win politically, it is VASTLY different than trying to win militarily... yes, in a war, you may want only hardcore supporters.. you may not care how the "majority" perceives you, so long as you know you are right.

However we are not doing this method... no matter how much we love the founders, we are doing something vastly different... we DO care how we are perceived by the majority... we NEED them.. being morally right is not enough when trying to win an election. I know other candidates try to appeal to the majority so much that they compromise their morals, but this does not mean that you can't still keep your morality intact while ALSO being conscious that it is a political fight, not a military one (ron's the only one doing this in the race, however).

And to debate whether or not we "should" have to appeal to the majority is irrelevant... this is the battle we are choosing to wage - a political one that does depend on the "unwashed masses" agreeing with us. "Should" we have to appeal to the masses in order to get our rights back? Probably not. But if that's the attitude we're taking (armed resistance/revolution) I really wish someone told me before I wasted $2300 on campaign ads, as I could have used it for ammunition.

Michael Nystrom's picture

Tarantulas - What is your suggestion?

Hey, you're so smart - here is my reply:

http://dailypaul.com/node/5317#comment-35989

It is very easy to criticize and to be an ass. The type of behaviour you are engaged in - bumping your own crap - is the kind that gets you banned.

So - Everyone wants Digg style commenting. There is a place to start. Why don't you go research that for me, find a programmer and get some quotes on how much it is going to cost?

Michael

The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. - Alan Watts

You can use Views and

You can use Views and Fivestar to do this. Are you already using Views to list the active forum topics at the top? If so, this should be even easier to set up.

While the original poster did not go about starting this conversation in a very constructive manner, the conversation itself is worth having. It seems as though your frustration is disproportionate to the lack of consideration given by the original poster. Is this the result of being, as you say, the sole operator of the site? If so, it might be worthwhile to invite some of your more trusted users to act as moderators and share the burden.

Visit The Paulunteer
Ron Paul Republican Grassroots Newsletter
Brian Bailey, Editor
Ron Paul 2008
Southwestern Illinois County Coordinator

Bury Function

We need a bury function like on Digg

Works for me

There is something special going on here. Thanks, to Micheal and the DailyPaul. Micheal let these knowledgeable people help you make the
DailyPaul evolve into all that it can be. Thanks to all in the DailyPaul community, united we stand. The Constitution rules!

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

What do you propose? Maybe

What do you propose? Maybe a Digg style voting system?

Michael Nystrom's picture

Digg Style System of Voting

Great- That is great. I love that idea, too. I have no idea how to implement it. I am not a programmer. Any Drupal experts out there?

Michael Nystrom
Not-a-programmer
www.dailypaul.com

The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. - Alan Watts

:(

That hurts. lol. ;p This would be one of the easiest systems to implement. [maybe] But it doesn't solve the problem at all; as you stated in your thread. I'd prefer you leave it like it is, than implement a digg style system (in short though, supports group think, leads to populist posts etc. (my reasons commented on extensively in the proper thread - linked below)

I know you said you have no idea to implement all these, as your not a programmer. - Maybe you could ask, send out a msg / attach it onto one of the formal fund raising letters sent out, by the campaign, asking for a programmer. ? Just a possibility. Hope it works out. Thanks

Michael Nystrom's picture

Tarantulas

To respond to your point - I would say, first, think:

There are no "site operators" here. There is one site operator - me. One person. Dig? A volunteer. A dude with a full time job, with a family, with a life outside this forum. I set this site up on my own initiative to support Ron Paul. Thanks to the magic of technology, it may look like some big behemoth of a corporation or whatever is behind it, but it is the initial effort of one person. Dig?

I have asked for suggestions on how to make the site better and received a ton of them. That is great. Super. There wasn't anything up there that I hadn't thought of myself, but guess what? I have no way of implementing any of them, because I am not a programmer.

In the free market, everyone is free. It is buyer beware - don't forget that. There is no heavy handed government deciding what is and is not valid. You have to THINK for yourself and make your own decisions. This is a free, open forum that operates on these principles. If people post irresponsible things with irresponsible titles like yours, then that is the world we live in - that is the free market.

Your examples:

examples: "give to my chipin", Nov 5th detractors, and "can I do this obviously illegal thing to promote Ron Paul?" type messages.

1. If people continue to bump their own crap to keep it at the top, e.g. 'give to my chipin' I can, have and will continue to ban that type of behavior. That is disruptive, obviously, but I have to know about it. (So let me know about it) If they're not bumping it themselves, it will die a natural death and be buried off the front page within a few minutes, as someone stated. Big deal - that is the free market at work. Sorry - I can't think for you or for anyone else on this site. You have to scan the headlines and decide what you're going to read or not.

2. "Can I do this obviously illegal thing...." If it is obviously illegal, then tell them - don't get off and rant about how stupid people are. As I've said repeatedly - take your cues from Ron Paul. Educate them. That is how it works in a community - don't hand that responsibility over to someone else, or expect that someone else is going to take care of it. Step up to the plate yourself!

This is a community. We're all in this together. We are all responsible for ourselves, and for each other.

This is one of the most important things I think that we all need to learn. Life under a Ron Paul presidency will be different than it is now because we'll all have to take on more responsibility and think for ourselves. We can't just expect to tell "other people" to "take care of it."

Michael Nystrom
Operator
www.dailypaul.com

The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. - Alan Watts

I disagree with prescreening

It doesn't take long now with the large number of posts going up for a lame post to work its way off the front page. The free market in posts does work.

Famous Quote from Justice William O. Douglas

"The Constitution is not neutral.
It was designed to take the government
off the backs of people."

Famous Quote from Justice William O. Douglas

"The Constitution is not neutral.
It was designed to take the government
off the backs of people."

Guys take your message / ideas HERE -

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/4966
;) read all the posts before commenting aswell, lot of suggestions out there.

Comic Strip on the Constitution

I don't know. If you added some funny text, it would have been a good posting. Here is funny Ron Paul related comic strip from today:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/Germanbusiness/const.jpg

I have to ask: Do the postings here get Google spidererd?

That is important because, if we mention something that rarely gets Googled, it will show up.

bumpage...

bump

I think

There exists a logical, fair and sound system that could be developed with a little bit of thought and effort. I agree that "any old post" shouldn't necesarily be able to jump to the top of the list. There should be some sort of quality rating. I think this would make the site even more effective.

Also, some system for earning "kudos" or "respect" within the site from other members? Man this would be pretty sweet. Daily Paul would be the best forum around.

_________________________________

Freedom - Peace - Prosperity

From the look of the site, I

From the look of the site, I would say that the owner developed it using Drupal or Wordpress. If this is the case, there are numerous plugins that would accomplish this with just a few minutes worth of work. That leads me to surmise that Michael does not wish to implement such a system.

However, I agree that this can be a fruitful discussion.

Visit The Paulunteer
Ron Paul Republican Grassroots Newsletter
Brian Bailey, Editor
Ron Paul 2008
Southwestern Illinois County Coordinator

bump

bump

Absolutely agreed, and...

The thing is, it takes a LOT of effort to either set up a self-moderation system (like Slashcode), or to manually approve and moderate the best things to the front page.

I can't imaging how many hours Michael Nystrom spends working on this site every day, but I expect its a LOT. He deserves a lot of credit for all that hard work...

And now we're talking about adding more work, one way or the other.

Sure, it really, REALLY needs to be done. The quality of posting has nosedived lately (due in part to a lot of dubious posting activity by "new" supporters of Ron Paul & Daily Paul). Sure something has to be done...

But will you put your money where your mouth is? Would you donate $5, $10 or more to see the Daily Paul cleaned up?

I sure would. Michael, as soon as you put your moderation system in place, let me know when you post your own PayPal "Donate" button.... You've got my $10.00!

Why not a " Thumbs Up" or "Thumbs Down" like Youtube?

That system seems to work really well and it's all based on open democracy. People can rate each other's comments once and those comments either go up in importance, or down in importance.

This should be fairly simple for a good web designer to implement.

Maybe we should all 'Chip In' to raise money so Michael can hire a web designer to fix the Daily Paul.

What do you think?

third

A voting system would likely take a little doing to implement, but not impossible.

Even a email to the site ops about things that are worthy of sharing might be good enough.