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The religion thread

I'm just curious after reading peoples posts in here what their core beliefs are to more completely understand their points of view. I am an atheist , agnostic , non believer.
So I'm just curious about how your beliefs relate to your belief in freedom.
My personal take on it is one of an absence of arrogant thought, People can't kill people simply because it does nothing for the human race, Some religions think of it as a cleansing? I see it as arrogance and bigotry.
what are your religious views about war ? Wasn't it originally written in your bible that " thou shalt not kill ?"



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Ignore the Church.

What you are describing are the laws and rules invented by the Church, many of which come from the old Roman religions. Connect with the Kingdom of God within you. Exercize your spirit, don't let it get lazy.
grant

But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?
Mark Twain

Well, that is not what I was expecting

I am an hard core "I don't know-er." What is REALLY obnoxious about me is that if you INSIST on telling me that YOU know, I am going to treat you like the hypnotized religobot you are. Whatever lies beyond the grave I will deal with after I am in the grave. Today, here on planet earth, I have my hands full TRYING to be responsible for THIS life in the midst of people who think some middle-aged white man who hangs out on a could is going to come fix whatever we screw up...
I like to divide the world this way: The known, the unknown, the unknowable. (Thanks to Carlos Casteneda.) Splitting things into known and unknown people are pretty good at, but they are SOOOO uncomfortable with the unknowable they like to cling to anyone or anything that takes away that uneasiness. We will achieve a whole new level of liberation when we realize the unknowable is that for ALL of us and learn to follow our BEST assessment of the KNOWN to guide our behavior.
Really, I am going to roast for an ETERNITY because my neighbor has a fine ass? Maybe it is a mule, I am not sure.

Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.

Connect directly to God.

Truely there would be liberty if religions were decentralized. The problem is are not enough religions, there should be about 6 billion different individual religions.

I am apPAULled at the number

I am apPAULled at the number of posts to this ridiculous thread. Not that the subject is unimportant (I am a Christian), but what the heck does any of this have to do with restoring Constitutional government to the United States? Is this Daily Paul or Daily Religion. Come on people. You ought to be ashamed!

It is level headed comments like yours...

It is level headed comments like yours that keep me from exiting this movement. I'm here solely as an individual for whom thinks that if we obey the constitution "first" things would be much better.

Though after further review of many comments, I'm beginning to question its true desires, at least many of its participants. I believe the fine Dr. is correct and I must individually do my part to restore the constitution. I find myself questioning my continued participation in this revolution.

Its my opinion that many involved have a more important goal then the constitution. Though your remark has given me comfort and has caused me to yield my exit, until further investigation to its true goal. Thank you for you time, from one individual to another.

What you believe to be true, is true to you... "until you change your mind"

What you believe to be true, is true to you... "until you change your mind"

"It's true goal"?

We must post what you wish us to post and believe what you believe in order to support the Constitution and end the Socialist state in America?

No, I don't think so.

We are not a collective, we are a revolution.

I know it gets up the nose of some Christians in this group that there are atheists, agnostics, pagans, wiccans, etc. That is understandable to some degree. Time to grow some thick skin and keep moving forward.

There is room at Daily Paul for all posts, is there not?

___________

Lisa C.

“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”

--Ron Paul

Join the rEVOLution here: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

Thank you for your reply...

Thank you for your reply, I often notice your snappy retorts.

I believe you may have misunderstood me with regard to my comment.

As you've understood them to be:
"We must post what you wish us to post and believe what you believe in order to support the Constitution and end the Socialist state in America?"

By all means, I was one of many who asked Mr N. to remove the flag option so I could view everyones comment(s). If you have any integrity, I do not think it is possible to make you believe anything....

In addition you say:
"We are not a collective, we are a revolution."
Don't you mean "Republic"?

I tend to be on the conservative side and try to focus my resources accordingly.

In ending you conclude:
"I know it gets up the nose of some Christians in this group that there are atheists, agnostics, pagans, wiccans, etc."

And too witch one of these aforementioned labels you've noted does the constitution protect?

Thank you, [THE CONSTITUTION FIRST], The rest is up to you and your states business...

I'm glad I've have the opportunity to observe the interests of others, it helps me form an opinion and act accordingly. As with you, it appears to me that you seem to be a rather snarky know it all, in my opinion

My Mother was a Sunday school teacher in Boston and my Nephew is a youth minister and that is their beliefs through action.

PS. I've had that tag line for awhile now out of respect for everyone, I've just recently added the ("until you change your mind") because what I believed this r3volution was about may not be what I believed it to be. Check the threads and see witch ones have the most comments...
I wish you well.

What you believe to be true, is true to you... "until you change your mind"

What you believe to be true, is true to you... "until you change your mind"

Augustine of Hippo fought the ideas of Pelagius.

Then of course history tells us that Augustine of Hippo came up with the concept of just war by the state, which was instrumental in beginning the Church and joining it to the Roman State. It was also at this time that the books for the bible were chosen, those which were not appoved were burned and those who were not in agreement were later declared heretics.

Pelagianism is a theological theory named after Pelagius (ca. 354 – ca. 420/440). It is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature (which God called very good), and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without Divine aid. Thus, Adam's sin was "to set a bad example" for his progeny, but his actions did not have the other consequences imputed to Original Sin. Pelagianism views the role of Jesus as "setting a good example" for the rest of humanity (thus counteracting Adam's bad example). In short, humanity has full control, and thus full responsibility, for its own salvation in addition to full responsibility for every sin.

Fought and God's Spirit WON.

Fought and God's Spirit WON. Pelagianism became Romanism.

Culture is Religion externalized.

Exercise your spirit.

I imagine that the early church had fewer problems, first because there wasn't a bible for people to have to read and look to for Christ and information about God. And of course they didn't have a church with a hierarchy overseeing the habits of the people. They connected to God through the spirit, not by trying to discover some hidden truth in a book. How many people have been killed because they understood the bible a different way or held on to different doctrinal belief? Many times the doctrines don't even have anything to do with what Christ was to have said, but what the individual wanted to promote. Perhaps this is why so many changes have occured to the words in the bible (or foot notes with explanations) and easily seen when comparing bibles, each bible tends to promote the doctrines of the particular church which backs and approves of it. Are we to worship bibles? I would suggest taking the bible read it and then get on with your life. Exercise your spirit and discover the Kingdom of God within You.
grant

Exercise you spirit.

I imagine that the early church had fewer problems, first because there wasn't a bible for people to have to read and look to for Christ and information about God. And of course they didn't have a church with a hierarchy overseeing the habits of the people. They connected to God through the spirit, not by trying to discover some hidden truth in a book. How many people have been killed because they understood the bible or held on to different doctrinal belief? Many times the doctrines have nothing to do with what Christ was to have said, but what an individual wanted to promote. Perhaps this is why so many changes have occured when comparing bibles, one bible promotes the doctrines of the particular church backs and approves of it. Are we to worship bibles? I would suggest taking the bible read it and then get on with your life. Exercise your spirit and discover the Kingdom of God within You.
grant

Gen.3:5

I hear.... "you shall be as gods, knowing good from evil".
Bring on the guillitine, iehuvihs will decide.

Culture is Religion externalized.

iehuvihs

great post.

yes.

it is within.
on the inside of the pure innermost compartment of who you are.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Children sinners?

I think you are refering to the concept of Original Sin, something outlined by St. Augustine, the same man that came up with the concept of "just war" by the state. I would question whether his intentions were truely to promote Christ or to promote the creation of the Church and State of Rome.
The better question is not "are children born sinners" but "who do you follow St. Augustine or Christ?
Christ was to have come to forgive all sins, so we are not born sinners, although we are born with a capacity to sin.
grant

"If you believe in fairies

"If you believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden, you are deemed fit for the bin. If you believe in transubstantiation, parthenogenesis and the rest of it, you’re deemed fit to run the country."
Jonathan Meades

www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic

Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

With docholladay fairies

With docholladay fairies around deciding... better armor -up or it's off too the "bin". Heil docholloday.

Culture is Religion externalized.

Am I a Christian? What does that mean?

I agree with you, religions do separate people into groups. And I am sure that even Christ wouldn't label himself a "Christian" with all that has been done in his name. Personally I don't try to convert anyone, I just enjoy sharing information and world views. However I do exercise a "belief" in Christ where I worship the Father and source of all the Creation on a personal level. I don't look to the stars to find God, and I don't believe I will find him in a book, including a bible, since I don't worship the bible. If Atheism makes another person happy, that is their choice. I pray they won't go to hell, since I certainly don't want to judge. In fact I even pray Satan will someday return to our Father.
grant

But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?
Mark Twain.

yes satan and his fallen angels will be saved

I believe in an early Christian belief named Apocatastasis.

In Christianity, apocatastasis is the doctrine of the ultimate reconciliation of good and evil. Apocatastasis maintains that all moral creatures -- angels, humans and devils -- will eventually come to a harmony in God's kingdom. It is based on the Biblical passage in 1 Corinthians 15:28 ("When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.") and was extensively preached in the Eastern church by St. Gregory of Nyssa and Gregory of Nazianzus, and in the Western church by Ambrose of Milan in the 4th century. Jerome (347-420) initially believed but then recanted, and Basil the Great (330-379), who opposed the doctrine, wrote that the majority of Christians believed it.

The belief was first articulated and defended by Clement of Alexandria (?-215) and Origen of Alexandria (185-232), two theologians who were schooled and steeped in Hellenistic philosophy and familiar with Gnostic and Mystery Cult writings. They freely adapted neo-Platonic terminology and ideas to Christianity while explaining and differentiating the new faith from all the others.[8] [9]. Some scholars credit Origen's On First Principles as the first Christian systematic theological work.[10] It contained key concepts of the Trinity and Free Will as well as Apocatastasis.

A little more than a century later, another systematic theologian, Augustine of Hippo (354-386), focused on a different part of the bible and formulated what later developed into the doctrine of double predestination, which is the belief that some people are predestined for salvation and some people are predestined for damnation.[11] In 543, the Synod of Constantinople condemned Apocatastasis as being Anathema, and the Anathema was formally submitted to the Fifth Ecumenical Synod of Constantinople (553). However, Origen's other theology about transmigration of souls and the possibility of glorified man falling again to restart the cycle played a role.[9] The Anathema against apocatastasis, or more accurately, against the belief that hell is not eternal, was not ratified despite support from the Emperor, and it is absent from the Anathemas spoken against Origen at Constantinople II.

Apocatastasis almost disappeared from Christian thought despite some respected theologians such as Maximus the Confessor, Scotus Erigena, Amalric of Bena and Hans Denck who continued to believe in the doctrine then generally considered heterodox by the Western Church. The belief became more public during the Protestant Reformation when all Catholic doctrines and practices were called into question, causing Adolf von Harnack, church historian, to state that nearly all Reformers were "apocatastatists at heart".

However, it should be noted that certain small groups who claimed to have preceded the Protestant Reformation, such as the early Anabaptists and Sabbatarian Church of God groups, did teach a form of apocatastasis and were condemned by the Latin and later Reformation churches. Groups, such as the Living Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, and other Post Armstrong Churches, which claim the Sabbatarian Anabaptists as ancestors, still teach that God will raise the dead and later call everyone who was not called in this age and that nearly everyone will ultimately accept that calling.

A related belief is Universal reconciliation, which is the doctrine that all human beings will be saved from eternal damnation or annihilation in hell.

[edit] Apocatastatic themes in the Bible
Origen's extensive writings showed great familiarity with the body of literature that eventually became canonized at a council in Carthage in 387.[13] The Bible, which contains multiple stories of apocatastatic fall from grace followed by redemption and restoration, formed the bedrock of his theology.
Latin Bible c. 1407These stories contain three key elements.

The person or nation going through the cycle is fundamentally marked and changed by their experiences.
There is a subtle current of inclusiveness that weave through these stories. In the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas' Parable of the Lost Sheep, the lost sheep is one of the largest and the shepherd abandons his ninety-nine to search for it. When he finds it, he tells it, "I love you more than the ninety-nine" (Gospel of Thomas, v. 107). In the Christian Gospels, the shepherd searches for the sheep only because it is lost.
The person or nation sometimes return to something glorious and mysterious. It is a homecoming but it's not a place that they have been before. These are seen in the Eschatological prophecies for Egypt and Assyria in Isaiah (Isaiah 19:23-25), for Sodom in Ezekiel (Ezekiel 16:53-55) and for the entire world in Revelation (Revelation 21-22).
The word, apocatastasis, only appears once in the Bible in Acts 3:21. Peter heals a handicapped beggar and then addresses the astonished onlookers. His sermon sets Jesus in the Jewish context, the fulfiller of the Abrahamic Covenant, and says, "He [Jesus] must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything (apocatastasis), as he promised long ago through his holy prophets."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocatastasis

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

I'm a Messianic Karaite Israelite

I read the Bible everyday, and I try to follow what it says.

I'm almost anti-zionist (I don't agree with the secular Israeli nation), but I think that the US shouldn't take away their right to protect themselves, or demand that they give away their land for false promises of peace.

Politically, I agree with Ron Paul almost all the time. I don't agree on legalizing prostitution, I wouldn't necessarily vote with him on drug issues, and I'm not convinced on having a standing army unless we are threatened.

Many people in my religious circles don't vote, and the only reason I found to make me not feel voting was against the bible was that I only vote to 1. reduce or end wars, 2. reduce or end abortion, and 3. to reduce or end murders (I know that murders won't stop.

If you'd like more info or questions, contact me at danielcarr1987 at hotmail.com. I don't check my email really often, so don't expect an immediate response.

Diference of opinion.

I assume you believe that man comes from some kind of pond scum which evolved up to our present form from a primative man and then mutations occured to give rise to different eye color, hair color, skin color ect...So I assume you believe with time that men if separate into groups, then environmental pressure could possibly give rise to a new and better species?

An alternative to this hypothesis is that a Creator made the first man and woman with all the genetic variability in their genes to provide for all the different eye color, hair color, skin color ect...In this case if man separates into groups the gene pool will become weakened and this will lead to the end of the animal man. Divided we fall, united we stand.
grant

Evolution is just a Theory.

For evolution to be true, everything must continue evolving. Where are the half monkey, half man creatures who are in the middle of evolving from monkies into men?

Proof of Evolution

Why, I believe we have a half-man, half-monkey occupying the White House as we speak!

Case closed.

Proof of Evolution II

http://www.bushorchimp.com/

___________

Lisa C.

“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”

--Ron Paul

Join the rEVOLution here: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

No, proof of DEvolution!

No, proof of DEvolution!

Ape to Neocon.

sigh

Fortune Favors the Bold

monkeys did not evolve into men, rather the great apes and humans share a common ancestor. The process of speciation occurs as a result of groups of organisms isolated from each other physically who then, over a very long perios of time, adapt to their surroundings (although some adaptations, referred to as point line mutations, can occur relatively quickly if they are advantageous enough)

Fortune Favors the Bold

This was a great series by the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/prehistoric_life/human/human_evolution/

Not only have we evolved, we continue to do so: http://www.jayspeaks.com/images/the_evolution_of_man.jpg

___________

Lisa C.

“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”

--Ron Paul

Join the rEVOLution here: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

Oh!!!, you mean the Necons..........

More lies,we are being spoon fed by them.....(A sucker is born everyday)

"Observe the masses,and do the opposite."

"Observe the masses,and do the opposite."

The BBC might be called socialist but I'd hardly

call them neo-cons. You didn't watch the series and have no frame of reference from which to speak. It was an excellent series and I recommend it to all. Closing your mind doesn't make you more righteous.

I really don't care what you believe, Iron. I understand you are a "flat-earther" but I mean you no harm and would even fight for the right for you to believe your fables. I don't believe, however, you would do the same for me.

Sad.

___________

Lisa C.

“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”

--Ron Paul

Join the rEVOLution here: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

Thank you Lisa......

Peace !!!, I mean you no harm either, and I'll fright for your rights as well....But I don't think it is fare that you just jump on a post an attack some one for what he or she believes...So I will say Goodnight to you...(God Bless)

"Observe the masses,and do the opposite."

"Observe the masses,and do the opposite."

Ciao

___________

Lisa C.

“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”

--Ron Paul

Join the rEVOLution here: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!