"The talk must stop." -- Is it my imagination or is there a lot more pro-Illegal immigrant junk being peddled on the forums?

There's nothing wrong with the basic idea of a fence.

A fence is massively cheaper than guarding the border with soldiers posted every half-mile. And saying that it won't work because some people may get through the fence is a lot like suggesting goats and cattle should be allowed to roam free and graze in whomever's yard they want to, because if you try to fence them in, "they'll just find ways to climb over or under them".

The only reason I don't like the idea of the fence is because I don't trust the federal government to do ANYTHING, and the federal government never does anything inexpensively or honestly. They'll run the cost of a fence up 100 times what it should be, and make it into some sort of high-tech FEMA/OHS Orwellian symbol intended to scare the hell out of people.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

Illegal immigration is only a problem because our economy is suffering and because of our welfare state. If we had a good economy then we would not be complaining about illegal immigrants and we would probably be welcoming them. Building a border is not going to do anything, plus I dont want USA to be like China. The only way to fix this problem is to stop offering them free services and take away the incentives for them to be here.

Fortune Favors the Bold

I see some sentiment towards "just deport all the illegals." This is not a realistic solution. Even if it were, it would entail a large scale military operation, whose cost in terms of liberty would surely outweigh its benefit. Furthermore, illegal immigration has become so intertwined with our economy that to simply remove them all would wreak havoc.
This problem didn't happen in one day, and there aren't any magic solutions.

Personally, besides ending the subsidization, i think the most helpful thing would be to repeal NAFTA. Notice how the illegal immigration flood started after NAFTA came into effect. The US and Mexico, like the US and China, are currently locked into a parasictic/symbiotic relationship. I describe it as such because it is of benefit to the elites of both countries, while at the expense of those countries' poor and middle class.

Also, try to keep in mind, the illegal immigrants are not evil. They are people acting in their own self interest and the interest of their families, like everyone else.

I think it is up to us to change the nature of the immigration debate. Rather then look it at from the perspective of the "evil" immigrants, we have to re-define it as a problem where both the people of America and Mexico suffer from their corrupt governments and the businesses that support their policies.

The inflation and crashing economy will stop most of the illegals coming over on its own. Maybe we should go to Mexico and find jobs once the dollar tanks lol. Maybe the peso will be worth more then lol doubtful but maybe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4tq7g0K-PQ

http://www.surfthechannel.com/info/television/Penn_%26_Telle...

I saw this episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit and they showed that it takes only a few seconds to cut through the fence or get over it. I think not giving them access social programs is a step in the right direction but they aren't coming here for the social programs. They want to work to make the big money. If Mexico would just allow more economic freedom in their country then they wouldn't want to come over here. That's the root of the problem.
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"We will never give up. We will never give in." - Dr. Ron Paul

First and foremost, there is no such thing as "freedom of migration" in a natural order. People cannot move about as they please. Wherever a person moves, he moves on private property; and private ownership implies the owner’s right to include as well as to exclude others from his property.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/hermann-hoppe3.html

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Thank you for the post, spacehabitats

Hey all you bleeding heart libertarians...don't you agree with Dr. Paul's principle of ending the welfare/warfare state??

California and Los Angeles are in a serious budgetary crisis. Schwarzegger has cut down on library and school hours and closed parks to deal with our budget
crisis. Our Mayor Villaragoisa has cut staff, teachers, class and lab hours,
increased fines for parking tickets, impound fees, car registrations, given
us a new monthly 34. trash fee, included in our DWP bill (including renters).
Our schools are overcrowded, hospitals are closing, prisons overflowing,
and our traffic congestion is legendary...we have just been dubbed the most congested city in America.

Could this possibly be a part of our financial woes...

Tuesday, January 08, 2008
Illegal Aliens Cost Los Angeles County Over $1 Billion per Year

If you're on heart medication, take some before reading this:

LOS ANGELES COUNTY -- New statistics from the Department of Public Social Services reveal that illegal aliens and their families in Los Angeles County collected over $37 million in welfare and food stamp allocations in November 2007 – up $3 million dollars from September, announced Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich.

Twenty five percent of the all welfare and food stamps benefits is going directly to the children of illegal aliens. Illegals collected over $20 million in welfare assistance for November 2007 and over $16 million in monthly food stamp allocations for a projected annual cost of $444 million.

“This new information shows an alarming increase in the devastating impact Illegal immigration continues to have on Los Angeles County taxpayers,” said Antonovich. “With $220 million for public safety, $400 million for healthcare, and $444 million in welfare allocations, the total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year – not including the millions of dollars for education.”

Posted by Mayor Sam at 1/08/2008 10:27:00 PM
Labels: illegal immigration, los angeles county, mike antonovich
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http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04733.pdf
GAO Report on cost of educating illegal alien schoolchildren

In California, $6-7000 each student per year, according to this report.
I have now heard it is up to $10,000.

I am all for rounding them up, taking any money they have on them out of their pockets to pay for the fuel and border patrol payrolls, putting them on a bus without even so much as air conditioning to save fuel and American tax payer's money, and shipping them right back over the border. Not even a complimentary bottle of American water for the trip back. Only an application for American citizenship.... printed in ENGLISH ONLY!