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Pennsylvania Residents PLEASE HELP!!! PennDot Class-Action Lawsuit

ALL PENNSYLVANIANS PLEASE HELP! Class-Action Lawsuit Against PennDot's Implementation of the Real ID.

They have started implementing the Real ID! I just found out it's been going on behind our backs, in secret, long before the news reported on it in June. When I applied for my drivers license 4 months ago they told me that they were not implementing the Real ID, but next time I come in, they said, It would be. They lied! We should be all outraged. Please help!!! Our rights have been violated!

Join the current fight of a slightly large brushfire here in the Commonwealth...
(post from http://talkback.lancasteronline.com/index.php?showtopic=72834)

Yesterday, the Real ID was not shot down. Crummy legislation, Rep. Thomas's HB2537 was not amended to hold PennDOT accountable for sharing our personal information with third party source, Visage, whom PennDOT signed a $45 million contract with in 2006 to 'keep PA safe from ID theft and to make sure we aren't terrorists'. We the People have been working our TAILS OFF to get Rep. Rohrer's HB1351 passed, which held PennDOT accountable... Yesterday on the floor, Rep. Thomas disrespected Rep. Rohrer with foul words and held a vote for his own shoddy legislation.

So what now?

There is a class action lawsuit being filed against PennDOT. PennDOT never told anyone that they would be taking the photos that they already have on file and putting them through FaceExplorer, a technology that makes a print similar to a fingerprint of your face. This cancels out Habeas Corpus, and destroys your 4th Amendment rights. Our information is already stored securely offshore. (!!!!!!)

Call the ACLU, who is 100% on our side with this. We've started the ball rolling on Jun 26, 2008 with the lawsuit. The ACLU's number is 215-592-1513, choose extension 1, and leave a message. They ask that you leave your name, address, phone number, and a one sentence reason why you think your civil liberties have been violated. Also, don't leave more than one message per person, as they acknowledge all messages they receive.

Our legislation does not care and would rather keep running off of lobbyist moneys and favors for each other. Governor Rendell should absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, be impeached. It was found yesterday by testimony of a PennDOT representative, that Rendell as been the one in bed with Homeland Security. We have not continued to hammer on him, because he really really doesn't care, and we feel like we are wasting our time.

From an email I received on July 10, 2008. ALSO call or email Renee' Baumgartner If you are interested in joining the CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT.

PennDOT has been using L-1 Identity Solution's FaceExplorer software to convert our digital pictures into a biometric image. This violates our 4th amendment rights. It is also violates Article I, Section 8 of the Pennsylvania's Constitution.

If you have a PA driver's license or ID card, there is a very strong probability that your picture has already been converted to a biometric image.

We, as citizens of Pennsylvania want it to STOP. NOW!!!

If you are interested in joining the class-action lawsuit against PennDOT, please send Renee' Baumgartner (real.idlawsuitpa@gmail.com) your:

Physical Address
Phone number
Email address

All Pennsylvania residents can join this lawsuit, regardless of whether you have a new license or ID.

This information will be used strictly to keep you up to date on the details of the lawsuit, and for the lawyer who takes the case to help us win back our freedoms. No information will be shared with anyone but Renee and our attorney.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact her. Information is below.

In Liberty,

Renee' Baumgartner
564 S. Duke Street
Lancaster, PA 17602
717-286-8042 (cell)

Co-Coordinator in PA for Restore the Republic
Member of Campaign for Liberty, PA

Jim Compton
717 243-9967
RTR Pennsylvania State Coordinator
http://freedomtofascism.com, www.restoretherepublic.com

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PennDot Class Action Lawsuit Update

PennDot Class-Action Lawsuit
July 23, 2008 - Update #1
Renee' M. Baumgartner

I want to personally thank all of you who have joined this lawsuit. This is the first step toward fighting to secure our rights to privacy against a very aggressive system that is determined to embroil us in a web of biometric technology.

For those of you who are not aware: L-1 Identity Solutions has already made it clear of their plans to incorporate biometrics in practically every facet of our lives. Of course, they believe this is a good thing. We all know that it is identity theft in the worst way. You can check out their website, if you haven't already at http://www.l1id.com.

I apologize for not getting this update out sooner. I have been engrossed in some heavy research on L-1, Viisage, biometrics, and especially the AAMVA. There is a lot of technical mumbo-jumbo to weed through as I move forward with many of the technical questions I know I will be subject to in the near future.

First, I am aggressively seeking out representation for this case. I have emailed ACLU to see how they want me to proceed and if they will represent us, but they are only one of many organizations that are available. What is most important at this stage is to secure as many plaintiff's as possible. So, spreading the word of this lawsuit on every website you can will move the numbers up. I currently have 120 plaintiffs on the list. It is possible that we will have to fund some of this lawsuit, or maybe none. It all depends. So the more plaintiffs the better, and no one will be required to pay, I am sure we can raise what we need through donations if need be. Again, this is just a possibility.

I want to personally thank Bill Faust for generating approximately 50+ of these plaintiffs. I also want to thank Jim Compton for sending out over 300 emails to the AFTF members in Pennsylvania and putting up a blog on DailyPaul. This generated another 50+ plaintiffs. The other 15 plaintiffs came from my local Lancaster County Campaign for Liberty group. The more plaintiffs we have, the more teeth this lawsuit has, which in turn will create a lot more publicity. I have already received a call for an interview about the lawsuit, but I will be turning it down until things get off the ground.

I am looking to have a meeting with a specific attorney within the ACLU. He was away in Europe at the time I spoke with the ACLU office. I spent over an hour going over various arguments of the case with Pam (in the Pittsburgh office) and it is then that I realized that this lawsuit will bring up more complicated arguments other than just proving a breach of our privacy. For instance, by law one cannot be forced to give up a "right" in order to enjoy another "right". Driving is still defined as a "privilege" because it is regulated, so arguing that driving is essential to our "right to travel" and our "pursuit of happiness" which makes it a "right" rather than a privilege will have to be argued also. This is opening up a whole new can of worms but one I am determined to win.

There are a few different scenarios as to how this lawsuit may move forward. I will be legally a Paralegal in 10 weeks. It is important at that point that I am careful with what I say, or how I answer questions, as I will not be able to give legal advice. Not that I could, this case is bigger than all of us.

One scenario will be that the attorney may want to file a motion for injunctive relief. Which basically asks the judge to order PennDot to stop immediately from collecting any more biometric data on Pennsylvania citizens. I am being told that these lawsuits can also go on for years with one motion being filed, only to be followed by a counter-motion. One after the other for as long as the other side wants to draw it out.

Our job is to keep pushing and get the word out for more plaintiffs to join us because the other scenario will be a huge push for publicity of this lawsuit so that we can put more pressure on the legislature before SB1220 (Senate "Anti-Real ID" Bill - coming up in the fall) comes to the floor for a vote. This bill is vital because it would hold PennDot's feet to the fire. This bill, if passed, would make it against the law for PennDot to hold any biometric data on any of us for the use of driving a vehicle or getting an ID card. It actually goes further by making it illegal for ANY state agency to require biometric data (unless you are convicted of a crime).

HB1351 was the House bill originated by Rep. Sam Rohrer. There were a handful of people who worked very hard to personally go to the capitol in Harrisburg to get as many Reps. to co-sponsor the bill as possible before it went to the floor for a vote. We managed to get 96 co-sponsors on the bill, but Rep. Thomas (from Philly) basically gutted the bill, made up a new bill, HB2537, and took out the words that would have held PennDot accountable for their FaceEXPLORER software. A debate ensued on the House floor as Rep. Rohrer tried to add an amendment to Thomas' bill that would have added the words back into the bill to stop PennDot - but the amendment didn't pass. The vote was 92-108. (Stay tuned for the link I will be sending to those who request it, of the video of this debate on the house floor. It hasn't been uploaded to the web yet, but it will be shortly.)

We have only 50 Senators. I would urge all of you to make phone calls or send emails to co-sponsor it, or make sure to vote FOR it in the fall. If we can pass legislation to end PennDot's actions, we may be able to avoid a lengthy lawsuit, but we can rest assured that pressure from the lawsuit will have done its job.

There is more technical information available if anybody wants to email me for this. Those who are interested in learning more about this can go to Aaron Bolinger's website at http://www.nvcca.net and click on "documents" at the top. There is plenty of information there that can fill you in on details of the Viisage contract with PennDot and hearing information. Aaron Bolinger and Jim Compton have been instrumental in educating our legislature of the horrors of the Real ID.

I also have the correspondence that took place between Rep. Sam Rohrer and PennDot and also to the Governor. This is very informative reading concerning PennDot and what they are doing. I urge you to look at the hard work Sam has put forth for all of us. It has been made public and added to the House records. It is a PDF file of 48 pages. For those who request these letters, I will send them promptly. Amazing stuff.

You can also access the bills in this letter by going to:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us and clicking on the Senate or House and use the "Find legislation by" at the top. Click on the radio button "Bill #" and your keywords would be "SB1220" or "HB2537" (Thomas' bill) or "HB1351" (Sam's original bill), etc.

Also, by request I will send the spreadsheet, of the 50 Senators, their phone numbers for their district offices, and who is already signed on to SB1220, if you want to help with moving along SB1220. This is our quickest, and best bet to end this invasion of our privacy.

I welcome any emails with ideas, questions, criticisms, etc.

Here is the Senate Bill for your convenience:

I will also be launching a MySpace page for this lawsuit. I will send the link when it is ready.

A Recap:

I have the documents on PDF btw Rohrer and PennDot
I have the Senate spreadsheet co-sponsors for SB1220.

Thanks again.

Renee' M. Baumgartner
Restore the Republic
Campaign for Liberty

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
- Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

"The Price Of Freedom Is Eternal Vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

Please Help by..

Please Help by emailing this info to everyone you know in PA. If you live in PA post it on various billboards and/or make fyers to randomly give out. The Revolution starts at home. Let's get active!!!

"The Price Of Freedom Is Eternal Vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

"The Price Of Freedom Is Eternal Vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

the US brags about not having a terrorist

attack for the last 7 yrs yet they need to protect us from all the terrorist? It reeks!!
Down with REAL ID-and all the fools in Congress that thought it was necessary. I think the govt trumped up public unrest about the illegal immigration problems so they could pass this shit off as necessary.

"Ideas have consequences." Ron Paul

"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski

Please tell me someone from PA

Has called at least one person from the list above to get on the list.

If we got Ron Paul on the ballot with a needed 40,000 signatures we should be able to get at least this amount of people onboard.


Good 'ol PennDot.. screwing the people of PA since it's inception. I've had my run in's with those assholes before. Our state government is overrun with schmuks, and Fast Eddie Rendell has 'scumbag' writting all over his greasy, fat, piehole.

How anyone even looked at him and didn't get a bad feeling is beyond me. First they allowed a TON of our utilities to be outsourced, and now nothing get's fixed. Water main breaks? 'we'll get to it!' (ok!) Gas leak? Don't bother calling.. you'll have fully underwritten fire insurance long before anyone shows up. Then the highway system.. Then our major themepark (Spain owns Kennywood now, nice..) and now they are outsourcing _us_ for profit.

Big government and big business run rampant around here, always have. Welcome to the 'Commonwealth' - Where the people come last. The only common wealth around here are the politicians.

I'm dealing with these shits right now.. Spent the last two years building a business and now they want the property the building is on to expand the roadway. Of course they could take the property on the other side of the road, but big business owns that, so they won't yield.

I'll check in with a meetup group and keep myself in the loop. Just one more log in the fire. I hope you guys know your facing a LOT of DEMS who are so oblivious, their house could be burning down and they wouldn't know it.

- Me

Who is the attorney?

Thank you for this information. While it's somewhat tangential, I agree it's important.

I'm uncomfortable getting involved at this point because these issues in Pennsylvania are often hijacked by self-promoters with bad reputations and worse ethics. Also, there are a few lawyers out there who flock to this stuff and are anything but reputable.

Who is the lawyer for the plaintiffs?

I don't know, but

you can call Renee' Baumgartner at 717-286-8042 (cell) or email her at real.idlawsuitpa@gmail.com. She is very friendly and would be happy to answer any questions you might have.

"The Price Of Freedom Is Eternal Vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

Respectfully, you should have that information

If you're going to create a thread you should either know that, or call yourself and post it for the rest of us. But thanks for at least pointing us in the right direction.


In the hope that someone in PA wants to stop Real ID. All the 3rd party candidates in the world won't matter if people don't pick up a phone and call their legislator.

Prepare to be bumped

I'm telling you all right now this topic is going to be my number one thing to bump every day until we get as many people on board as voted for Ron Paul or Michael Nystrom puts a blog on campaign for liberty's website about PA's effort against REAL ID.

Activists efforts like this need exposure and all the opinion polls about voting for third party candidates make no difference if we can't change legislature that harms all of us.

Can You Imagine...

Can you imagine what an impact we could make if all 2 million Ron Paul voters of PA joined this lawsuit. It would certainly make all the other states sit up and take notice. We must keep networking and organizing.

"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race”
-Calvin Coolidge

"The Price Of Freedom Is Eternal Vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

My numbers were off

I figured all of PA voted (LOL). That being said, it would still be tremendous if we got a ton of people to get on board. I was talking to Jim Compton and he said we'd need the majority of PA to sign up, so no Attorney General can dispute our lawsuit.
The thing about this lawsuit is, its not an election issue, its a rights issue so we have support across the political spectrum. I know the democratic party would be very interested in helping with something like this.
I think we need to start mailing lists for everyone in the meetup groups and give them sheets to get friends and family to sign up for a class action lawsuit against PENNDOT. I'll be circulating sheets and getting names next time we meetup.

Wouldn't it be great if this was the one state where the people, not some politician, enacted a reversal on the REAL ID? I know Rep. Rohrer and Rep. Folmer introduced bills, but they've been getting massive amounts of flack from the paid lackeys of Visage and DHS in the Governor's mansion. The people of PA need to stand up to make their bills pass. It gives me chills just thinking with enough people this could happen.

Ron Paul got 16% of the vote

If he could get 2 million people to vote for him against all odds- I think it would be easy to get 2 million people to sign up to not have their names on an international database. Or better yet, get 2 million phone calls to State Senator Wonderling -717-787-3110.

Here's the lowdown

Called Jim Compton and here's what I understand-
Rep. Thomas (call to complain to him regularly here: http://www.pahouse.com/thomas/) is the chair of the Committee who decided Sam Roher's bill (call to ask how to help here: http://samrohrer.org/) would not even be voted on by the committee. Rep. Thomas (shill for Visage) passed a gutted version of Rep. Rohrer's bill that takes out any mention of biometrics not being used.

So now, there is a malformed bill in the Senate that might get amended if some senator has a backbone.

There is a few senators in the PA House with a backbone and leading the charge is Rep. Mike Folmer with Senate Bill 1220. The Chair of the committee is Rep. Wunderling (call him here: http://www.senatorwonderling.com/) is able to pass this bill and see an amendment that would fortify the crippled House bill against the Real ID.

Pennsylvanians let your voice be heard. Call the people on the first post and call your representatives. Let them know we do not need Real ID EVER.

Incorrect information

Mike Folmer is a state senator, not a representative.

Are there any meetups still around

in your area, or have they disbanded? REALID is one of the issues my local Ron Paul meetup decided to get involved in...Get them involved, if you can....

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond

Hey Scott

You forgot to mention:


Meetup 979 is still going strong. We still have meetings... we were meeting every Thursday, now it's every other Thursday....

We are having our first annual Delco For Liberty Picnic July 27th... see the link in jshowell for more details

Oh yeah

That's the main one isn't it?

There's alot of other groups than just the meetups, though. The two people coordinating the lawsuit go to restore the republic (which I hardly ever use). There's also the www.wearechange.org groups, the john birch society and I'm sure a whole lot of others who don't belong to a group.

I like to call all these disassociated groups the freedom coaltion in my optimistic hope that they can all get together on issues as important as stopping the REAL ID act from passing in our state.

Pennsylvania today

your state tomorrow! Its happening and they will stop at nothing.... Damn them all to hell!

Keep it bumped...

Whats going on in your state on Real ID ...post here

"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

I live in PA and have

already contacted Renee Baumgartner to join in.....I will give you a bump to help you out, though....

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond

Thank You!

I found out about this at the D.C Freedom March. I was devastated when speaker Jim Guest told me that I had a Real ID. I worked so hard to warn others about it and when I found out I was duped, I openly cried. I am still so upset and I have a hard time holding back my tears. I hate the thought that the Feds now have me in their clutches. I feel like I have been raped. The whole idea of them having me in their system scares me,

"The Price Of Freedom Is Eternal Vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson

"The Price Of Freedom Is Eternal Vigilance."
Thomas Jefferson