Lesser-Evil Voting
I continually struggle with the question of lesser-evil voting. I have flip-flopped several times on this issue. I believe whole-heartedly that the lesser of two evils is still evil. I also believe that you should always vote your conscience. But what if your conscience tells you to be pragmatic?
It is *extremely* rare to find a candidate who agrees with you 100% on everything. If we waited for those candidates, we would probably never vote. So at what point do you draw the line? How much do you have to agree with a candidate before you are willing to vote for them? How much do you have to disagree before you are willing to do anything to *stop* them, even if it means voting for a lesser evil?
I take every online political quiz I can find; not because I believe them to be authoritative, but I do find them helpful. Ron Paul consistently dominates my results, but I always ask myself if I would be willing to vote for the next best candidate, if Paul didn't receive the nomination. I continue to struggle with this question because I am so horrified at what a Clinton presidency would mean for this country. But the lesser evil among the current front runners, Guliani, is *truly* evil; that is why Ron Paul's nomination is so important. Every other possible outcome spells disaster for America -- this is not hyperbole.
Another important factor to consider is percentages. Even if I cannot possibly bring myself to vote for any candidate on a ballot, I still feel strongly that I must vote -- even if I just write in "Buggs Bunny" -- because it will lower the percentage of votes for whichever evil candidate wins. This reduces their ability to claim a mandate from the people.
I'm wondering, what are your thoughts on all this? I suppose I'm also hoping for encouragement to stick to my guns and not vote for evil. Words cannot express how frightened I am of Hillary Clinton; the only way to describe it is to say that I have actually considered the possibility of voting for Guliani. That should paint a vivid enough picture for you.
not a option
I will not vote for the lesser of two evils. Its Ron Paul all the way, even if a write-in. Why............. I, like so many others, have donated for the first time to presidential campaign, the first time to actually speech out and support a candidiate, to go to a rally, to hand out fliers, which is something pretty amazing as I am not much of a people person, I have written to people like Lou Dobbs, and Bill Maher, to newspaper columist. We the People.....We ARE the People, thats why I support RP all the way.
My worst nightmare
If it's Hillary vs. Julie Annie in the general election, I'm staying home.
Don't stay home. Write in
Don't stay home. Write in Ron Paul. In future elections if there's no good candidate, write in anything. Just be sure to vote, because it pushes down the winning percentage of whoever does win. This way they can't claim a mandate due to a landslide, and demand a blank check to run roughshod over the Constitution.
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There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
1. Soap
2. Ballot
3. Jury
4. Ammo
Please use in that order.
--Ed Howdershelt (Author)
When the votes are counted
When the votes are counted every vote for a candidate counts as a vote for their policy and position. This becomes an endorsement for the continuation of those policies and procedures. Vote tallies count how many... not why... when you vote for something.. make sure you vote FOR something. If you vote against something, you are voting for the candidate you cast your ballot for, even if you find them almost as repulsive as the person you voted against.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, 1791
I like the way you said
I like the way you said that, "they count HOW MANY, not WHY."
I'll remember that one. :-)
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There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
1. Soap
2. Ballot
3. Jury
4. Ammo
Please use in that order.
--Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The lesser evil
I remember seeing a poll years ago, after the 1992 election. Something like 60% of voters had Perot as their first choice, but so many didn't think he could win that he only got about 19% of the vote. People just voted for the lesser evil, I guess.
I voted for Perot when I turned 18 in 1996. Then I voted for what I considered the lesser evil in 2000 and 2004.
I'll never do that again.
Difficult choices in '92
If you think choosing between the lesser of two evils is difficult, try choosing between the least of three evils! While I disagreed with Perot on several fronts, he was right about the federal deficit. The scary thing is that Perot could have won if he had not gone loony.
Drain the swamp!
"Least of three evils." You
"Least of three evils."
You raise another problem. What if there are NO good candidates? Such a scenario is the rule, rather than the exception. This will be the first election of my voting life that I completely endorse my candidate, and I'm sure I'm not alone. So have we all been guilty of a lifetime of lesser-evil voting? Should we have written in "Thomas Jefferson" all these years?
My point is, most every vote is a vote for the lesser evil, to one degree or another. So to what degree is evil tolerable?
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There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
1. Soap
2. Ballot
3. Jury
4. Ammo
Please use in that order.
--Ed Howdershelt (Author)
lesser of 2 evils..
I voted for the lesser of 2 evils in the 2 past elections and look what it got me.. NEVER again will I vote for the lesser! I am sure Ron Paul will win the nomination.. there are just to many of us!... and were gaining strength
everyday... but if Ron would not get the nomination and does not run third party which I don't think he will, I will vote for the Constitution party candidate.. this is my way of telling the controlled mainstream media , the banksters, the stooges in congress and the multination corporations and ALL the one world government jerkoff promoters that YOU DON'T OWN ME I'M NOT YOUR SLAVE! NOTHING WRONG WITH A PROTEST VOTE. democrats and republicans are the same.. it doesn't matter which party gets in your gonna get the same klinton or bushy screw the USA politics! RON PAUL IN 08
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
I have written in the name
I have written in the name of Ron Paul the last four presidential elections. To H**L with the lesser of evils. That kind of attitude helped get us in this mess.
I agree.
It's so hard not to punch out the sheeple who say, "Well, I really wanted to vote for (X) but i didn't think he'd win so I voted for (Y) instead."
WTF????
let me get this straight...we've become such a superbowl armchair quarterback nation that people will vote for a dictator just so they can be on the winning team?
oy.
Write In for Ron Paul 2008?
If Ron Paul loses the primary, I intend to write his name in for president. Has anyone considered creating a website along the lines of the Nov 5th site to get large numbers of people to commit to a write-in?
If we could get millions to write-in ron paul and the election is close we could cause election day havoc and make a serious statement at the same time.
He gets my vote also
To me there is not a question of who I will be voting for next year as it will be Dr. Paul. He has earned my vote, regardless of who the republicans nominate.
The only question is will I do it as the republican nominee or as a write in.
Dr Paul is so unique in terms of his positions compared to other candidates, if I voted for a Rudy, Fred, or anyone else, it would muffle the good Doctors message and advance theirs.
Great Idea
I endorse this plan
Realtor for Ron Paul
you have to live with your decisions
let's put it that way.
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Canada Loves Ron Paul
When ur about to die
What would you think of what you've done? What would you tell your children that you voted for? Would it be that your vote could have made the difference? At that point in time, it would be too late and you would have no time to redeem yourself.
The person you vote for might win, but you lose.
This logic that a vote for someone who can't actually win is a lost vote is the most illogical logic ever to be spread by the media and has pushed people from voting for what they believe in into voting for what they loath for so many years. it makes me cry.
You elect a person into office so that your beliefs and your ideology is being represented.
If you buy into that "you waste your vote" crap, then your political beliefs have no chance of being heard, but the lesser of two evils can claim to act on your behalf.
The person you vote for might win, but you lose.
Wow - nicely put!
That needs to be an independent ad.
"Lesser of two evils" blah.. [pans to Hillary] / [pans to Rudy]
The person you vote for might win, but you lose.
"Vote Ron Paul this election." - [Pans to Ron Paul / giving a speech at NYC, or him ringing the liberty bell]
"And together, we all win."
- That's all you need, HOW many people do you think are going to look him up after that. Or when it comes to vote on the day -
"They're going to remember how their party has treated them. They're going to remember how the system has treated them. They're going to remember.
And I'll tell you what: they're going to protest." - http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/lopez1.html
I think you've followed your conscience..
And made up your mind already? :D
If not may I add..
If you are voting for the lesser of two evils. You are still voting for 'evil'.
“Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God.”
~ Benjamin Franklin
If you vote for the status-quo (the front runners), you are voting for a system that resembles the tyrants more so, with each coming day.
If you are voting for that system. You are disobeying God. Comparable to sin. So I'm inclined to think, thats why - there is no chance, that a person in good conscience - would vote for evil. When such virtue is on the ballot paper!
Yes, I have already made up
Yes, I have already made up my mind. This topic was mostly a plea for backup, and to help others who may have misgivings about this subject.
I'll be voting for Ron Paul no matter what, but I would be lying if I said that it wouldn't make me uneasy to write in his name, if it came to that. I would see Hillary flash before my eyes in the voting booth. *shudder*
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There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
1. Soap
2. Ballot
3. Jury
4. Ammo
Please use in that order.
--Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Assumptions that lead to Dr. Paul's victory
The way I see it, Hillary is going to win anyway. And even if one of the faux Republicans were to beat her, nothing would change. Therefore, I have nothing to lose by voting my conscience. I plan to vote for Ron Paul no matter what, even if I have to write his name in.
This election is NOT about Democrat vs. Republican or conservative vs. liberal. It is about CHANGE vs. NO CHANGE. More and more people are waking up and adopting this line of thinking and it is very refreshing to see it taking place. I am continually filled with more confidence every time I read that someone else has decided they will write Dr. Paul's name in if it comes down to that. Hopefully, the GOP will come to its senses and we won't be forced into that position.
I like the analogy someone else used about using CPR to bring the country back to life. If we aren't successful, then the country was dying anyway.
ALL OR NOTHING BABY!
Hillary as the most evil
That seems to be the "conservative" rallying cry, and I wonder if they aren't in fact steering voters. You are supposed to vote the lesser of two evils by this logic. However...
All the other candidates are the same. Hillary is the favorite; political knowledge by osmosis. It's very telling that the Clinton presidency records where she supposedly gave so much input is locked up in the William Jefferson Clinton library.
Then Rudy Giuliani is the choice for conservative voters who feel they must compromise on abortion, immigration, gun and gay rights issues to defeat Hillary. He also seems tough and capable being a man and someone who was on TV during 911. He's from NY, too.
It seems McCain disappointed on his second run, but he was hoped to grab the independent vote. McCain is too old.
Fred Thompson was supposed to appeal to conservatives who wouldn't budge on conservative issues, but he has no personality. Women dislike him, because he's old, ugly, married to a young trophy wife.
Mitt Romney "looks like a President", so he would be another Giuliani-like compromise for values voters. His flip-flopping won't quietly go away. There is the Mormon thing, too. Minorities and women dislike him, and Christians aren't convinced he's one of them.
Huckabee is being pitched as the dark horse Dobson mentioned, but he is as bad if not worse than Hillary. Another "Man From Hope." Thanks but no thanks. A tax-hiker and pro-illegal immigration liberal who's only conservative on guns and abortion. That is why he will be a Giuliani or Romney VP, most likely, but that won't beat Hillary.
All of these candidates would actually give the election to Hillary, because at least she wouldn't step up torture or continue expanding executive authority. Mitt Romney with his line item veto and Giuliani the cross-dressing fascist megalomaniac come to mind here. Hillary would trounce either of them, but the powers that be would still be happy if either of them took office.
Personally, I would write Ron Paul on the ticket. A Hillary presidency worries me plenty, but there's worse that could happen. At least the Clinton military was small in scope.
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Ron Paul cured my apathy
If I had known about him two elections ago, I would have written his name on the ballot.
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Canada Loves Ron Paul
anyone else?
we're talking about inferior candidates you could vote for besides Ron Paul ;)
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Canada Loves Ron Paul
"Hillary as the most evil
"Hillary as the most evil [...] seems to be the "conservative" rallying cry, and I wonder if they aren't in fact steering voters."
It's just my opinion. I'm not trying to steer anyone anywhere, I'm just looking other points of view on lesser-evil voting.
It is my personal opinion that communism is the most vile political ideology the world has ever known. Socialism is one step below communism; the Democrat Party platform is demonstrably socialist. This is why I fear Clinton. It doesn't mean I don't fear Guliani's police-state, I just fear it a tiny bit less. It's just my personal opinion. Being from Canada, I can understand if you disagree about the evils of socialism (that's not a jab at you personally, but at your government -- feel free to take jabs at mine; I'll agree I'm sure).
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There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
1. Soap
2. Ballot
3. Jury
4. Ammo
Please use in that order.
--Ed Howdershelt (Author)
they're scared now
I will add that the GOP is terrified of losing more members. I think the appeal of Ron Paul is that he brought people back to the party and even recruited more. His message has a broad appeal. The Republicans will lose alot of people if the nomination goes to another candidate. They will lose all of Ron Paul' s money. They have been loathe to admit it, looking at how online text polls differed from traditional polls among registered Republicans.
Many Americans are dissatisfied with our government. They long for a return to a more traditional America. Ron Paul is the caring and socially minded face of conservatism now. A family doctor, a veteran, a distinguished Congressman, a man happily married for 50 years with a large, closeknit family. He is the only candidate who stands a chance against Hillary Clinton. Besides that, Ron Paul is truly hope for America.
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Giuliani's police state
He is such a mean, rat-faced creep. I lived in NYC throughout the Giuliani years, and you would have to have lived it to believe it. The black helicopters did come for people then. The goon squad ran amok. Crime was already on the decline nationally, as well as the decreased crime rate he inherited from Dinkins. There was no need to terrorize citizens and brutalize minorities. He is "a small man is search of a balcony" as Jimmy Breslin put it. Hillary would wipe the floors with him. Corporations are hedging their bets accordingly. There is overwhelming support for another Clinton presidency, and honestly, it does not worry me so much. She is the nicer of two candidates following the SAME political agenda.
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Canada Loves Ron Paul
I'm well aware of Guliani's
I'm well aware of Guliani's record. He was compared to Hitler, 'nuff said. We just happen to disagree on the evils of socialism and, by extension, Clinton.
But we agree on the important thing, that Ron Paul is the only candidate who won't continue to run America into the ground. :-)
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There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
1. Soap
2. Ballot
3. Jury
4. Ammo
Please use in that order.
--Ed Howdershelt (Author)
I look at it this way
How are the frontrunners determined in the Republican and Democratic parties, i know it is by polls that are taken but they are determining these by a percentage of 1680 people usually.
As Dr. Paul; stated several times his name has never been on the
polls that are taken, I know from the Zogby poll I have taken I had to request them to put Dr. Pauls name on there survey and they did.
But to get to the point I have always voted against the lesser of the 2 evils and went Constitution Party since Reagan in 88, in 88 I voted for Dukakis and that was a protest vote against H.W. Bush who I just couldn't stomach and who I personally blamed on having Reagan shot.
So yes voting the lesser of the 2 evils is the easy way out study the
issues of each candidate and see who will do the best for our country.
This year is easy Ron Paul represents 100% of who could do the best job for our country not just for me.
"Freedom is a right that can never be won in war,only by each individual "
Overestimating your vote...
No one person's vote counts for much. Consider.... You convince 10 people over the next year to vote for RP, and due to some unforeseen circumstance, you never make it to the polls to cast your own vote. As a practical matter, what you do right now has a much bigger effect than what you do next November. (Just don't tell anyone else.)