Commodity backed currency
Submitted by wninja on Fri, 07/18/2008 - 11:59
I have heard the arguments both for and against a return to the gold standard. My feeling was at least gold standard is in the direction from where we came.
It is my understanding that it does not matter what the currency is backed by so long as it is steady and gold or silver can still be manipulated. But as in the video below they suggested it could be seashells so long as it's steady.
http://bullnotbull.blogspot.com/2007/02/fiat-money-system-dr...
Well what about a hemp backed currency???
»
So, I said I will write again, but I pretty much
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
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wrote what I wanted to write when I said that. Below is what I wrote earlier. Please, let me know if you have questions. I'm not very good at explaining things so it's probably not very clear.
In my view, the total money supply should represent the total ownership of the economy as a system. In my opinion, this is the only way anyone can expect money to be a store of value because only a system can retain its value while goods perish.
But, there are three ways to quantify an economy so that we can properly divide and assign the ownerships using this measure (money).
One is to attempt to quantify by measuring everything in the economy. I can think of a classic fiat money in this type. Second is to sample one or two products of the economy to assess the size of the economy (or to quantify the economy), for example, a bi-metal standard. Third is to assess the size by measuring the ability of people (to borrow), in other words, a debt based money system and this is what we have, in my opinion. In fact, I think the guys who came up with this debt based money system are brilliant. But, of course, it doesn't mean I like the system.
One more thing that I want to point out. Since I believe that the total money supply should represent the total ownership of the economy, those who have the issuing power of money essentially own the entire economy, in my opinon.
government of the people, by the people, for the people
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Fantasy. Mere fantasy.
We must get back into the real world with this. Hemp? Hemp money? Im sure the rock-a-Ofella's and Red shields would love to give up there gold and silver for hemp. Sometimes you must fight fire with fire. Sure in an imaginary land where the media pushed Hemp chains and Hemp wheels and hemp jewelery we would all be clamoring for hemp. Yet we live in a society that places such a high value on said things. Some by investing in said High things one could then assume that your investments could be used as money. Exchange these wheels for that chain. Exchange me this chain for some food. It happens more often than you think. But Hemp? What are you smoking? The almighty dollar's you own now need to be exchanged for real money now. Go ahead and buy up all the hemp you want. You wont get any silver from me for it. A commodity based economy can happen but not with hemp.
Because for intents and purposes
Hemp is not different than oil. You can't produce anything with crude oil that you cannot produce with hemp.
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
Wow
Let me stuff some hemp in my oil tank and watch the sparks fly.
You really don't know anything about hemp do you?
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
HA
Take any plant and you can have the same result's. Maybe you have invested in a hemp based company. Thats why your pushing your product. Maybe your an college level kid who still wears hemp bracelets and hemp toe rings. Who baths in hemp oils and brush's its teeth with hemp toothpaste. Bottom line is it can be anything. As for your hemp oil for my black gold. Well lets not get carried away with this supposed wonder plant that can do everything but get you high. One plant to save our economy. Please I've read all about this plants Jesus like qualities. I say to hell with it. Most of the stuff I have read is conflicted and blind propaganda. Do what you want with your rope. I will back my commodity currency with gold and silver. Maybe you just cant afford anything but hemp products? BTW I don't like you.
I'm not surprised you're not
I'm not surprised you're not very intelligent. Why even bother interacting in this thread?
Sure there are other plants you can use. Most in demand for fuel right now are food crops which is not a good idea and when you compare the biomass produced compared to other crops there's no contest.
Hemp can be used for composite building materials which would be far superior to the composites we have today and pretty much all paper products as an alternative to deforestation.
What does Paul think of industrial hemp? Or do you not care?
110th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 1009
To amend the Controlled Substances Act to exclude industrial hemp from the definition of marihuana, and for other purposes.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
February 13, 2007
Mr. PAUL (for himself, Ms. BALDWIN, Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts, Mr. GRIJALVA, Mr. HINCHEY, Mr. KUCINICH, Mr. MCDERMOTT, Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California, Mr. STARK, and Ms. WOOLSEY) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Energy and Commerce, and in addition to the Committee on the Judiciary, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned
A BILL
To amend the Controlled Substances Act to exclude industrial hemp from the definition of marihuana, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2007'.
SEC. 2. EXCLUSION OF INDUSTRIAL HEMP FROM DEFINITION OF MARIHUANA.
Paragraph (16) of section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802(16)) is amended--
(1) by striking `(16)' at the beginning and inserting `(16)(A)'; and
(2) by adding at the end the following new subparagraph:
`(B) The term `marihuana' does not include industrial hemp . As used in the preceding sentence, the term `industrial hemp' means the plant Cannabis sativa L. and any part of such plant, whether growing or not, with a delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol concentration that does not exceed 0.3 percent on a dry weight basis.'.
SEC. 3. INDUSTRIAL HEMP DETERMINATION TO BE MADE BY STATES.
Section 201 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 811) is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:
`(i) Industrial Hemp Determination To Be Made by States- In any criminal action, civil action, or administrative proceeding, a State regulating the growing and processing of industrial hemp under State law shall have exclusive authority to determine whether any such plant meets the concentration limitation set forth in subparagraph (B) of paragraph (16) of section 102 and such determination shall be conclusive and binding.'.
So when i'm out shilling for hemp I'm actually promoting Paul's policy
douchebag
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
sea shells? this guy is a nut case I dont even want to listen
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Pls donate here Ron Paul can still win
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Fine don't
But go out and find any other video on the history of money and you'll hear much the same thing.
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
I
Believe the sea shells comment was in refrence to, how some native american tribes used certain sea shells as a form of currency.
Yes, if you look at history
Yes, if you look at history a number of these types of things have be used to facilitate the exchange of goods and services because the people using them could not would not did not change the value. So a seashell with 2 holes drilled in it that bought you a fish today would buy a fish tomorrow. In turn, the fisherman could save a weeks worth of these seashells and trade for a pig. It works because of the faith placed in it as a medium of exchange. So it matter little what is used so long as it's value does not change.
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
How come he didn't say ...
beads or pelts?
WAHOR!!
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Just one example however if
Just one example however if you watch the video he says beads and pelts or perhaps I saw that in a different video. I know they use bag of sand as an example and i know feather and small blocks of wood have been used over time.
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
There are certian "qualities" that a currency must have
A currency is essentially a storage of value, of labor done. Therefore a currency MUST be derived from labor. Fiat digits entered into a computer fail this qualification. Commodities require initial work to be done to create the currency, they are originally create from labor. One could have a gold mine or oil well in their back yard, but still it would require Labor to produce such.
Another quality of sound currency is that it is non consumable. Physical consumption of the currency (eating it or burning it) would obviously be deflationary, as well as result in constant inflationary-deflationary cycles in times of extreme surplus/shortage. And can you imagine the shortages of a needed commodity if the banks had to HOLD the commodity in reserves?
Yet another quality is that it should be portable/campact. You wouldn't want to have to have a wagon to carry your currency when you go grocery shopping.
When one considers which commodity would be good as a currency backing, remember, there IS a reason that Gold and Silver have survived as currency for thousands of years.
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People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
Gold and silver has to be
Gold and silver has to be held by someone for it do maintain it's value.
A consumable renewable commodity is an even trade at current market value meaning you get full market share up front. Turn in hemp for hemp credits which buy products made with hemp or trade them for gold or silver certificates. Or in my model solar/energy credits which are used to purchase energy from solar/wind.
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
Have you thought about why a currency should be or can be
a storage of value? Don't you think it's strange because, for example, if you are a fisherman, you cannot store the value that you produced for a very long time. Many professions are like that, but everyone seems to expect that he should be able to store the value that he produced for a long time.
I believe that I found the answer to this question. What is your take?
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
---
government of the people, by the people, for the people
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...and the answer is?
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
The answer that I came up with is this.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/44895
I hope you will read the link above, but if it did not answer the question directly, the answer that I came up with is that money is like stocks. In my opinion, money represents ownership of the economy as a system and because it is a system it can keep the value while the system is functioning just like stocks.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
---
government of the people, by the people, for the people
---
There are places in the
There are places in the world where bartering is a way of life. Prices can be cheap, quality can be pour, and foreign tourist often get gouged. I'm okay with bartering but you need to keep things in mind when going with this idea.
To some degree I'm agreeable however not all commodities make for good stocks to be supplemental to money currency. For example lumber was mentioned earlier. Lumber is all time consuming to grow and harvest. It only becomes worth it for a logging company to contract forestry that has been around for 60 or 70 years. Wheat, is a food crop and would be subject to disease, bad seasons, and GMO super giants Monsanto.
Hemp requires no fertilization or insecticide. Grows fast like a weed. The tons of biomass per acre is staggering compared to other comparable plants. Trading hemp in it's own hemp credit ensures it's viability in the future. So farmers know what they're going to get and investors are guaranteed the hemp credit will be around in the future. Isolating it like this will also allow it to grow independently of other markets and less subject to outside manipulation.
Much the same thing can be said for solar and/or wind. Since you get your principle up front or in direct exchange. Although long term value maybe fluctuate depending on total participation and adoption of technology.
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
A "Hemp Credit", to be
A "Hemp Credit", to be viable, would require that hemp be held physically in reserve, warehoused. If it is not held in reserve, then you basically have the same system we currently have, Fiat. If you hold hemp in a warehouse, what happens when that warehouse burns down, and all the hemp burns with it?
You do understand that metals, while they may melt, can seriously difficult to destroy? How many hemp ropes do you think exist that are 3-4 thousand years old?
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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
This is were i thinks hemp
This is were i thinks hemp is different. Because hemp is worth more when it's turned into something useful. It is a fiat system but one which everyone can freely participate in. Not like oil which is monopolized. If everyone could tap an oil well the fiat system of today would work because no one could be left out.
In contrast to your issue with security how different is a warehouse of hemp burning down to a warehouse of paper money burning down?
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
Paper money is in
Paper money is in circulation, not in a warehouse. "Paper's" "warehouse" is a computer, with backups. Would you then suggest that hemp be circulated, carried around in our wallet (actually you'd need a wagon) as currency?
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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
What are you talking about?
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
---
government of the people, by the people, for the people
---
Commenting on your link. I
Commenting on your link. I think this is inline with what you are saying. If i've read you correctly.
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
OK. Thanks. I probably should re-write that.
I will write again tonight. In my view, the total money supply should represent the total ownership of the economy as a system. In my opinion, this is the only way anyone can expect money to be a store of value because only a system can retain its value while goods perish.
But, there are three ways to quantify an economy. One is to attempt to quantify by measuring everything in the economy. I can think of a classic fiat money in this type. Second is to sample one or two products of the economy to assess the size of the economy (or to quantify the economy), for example, a bi-metal standard. Third is to assess the size by measuring the ability of people (to borrow), in other words, a debt based money system and this is what we have, in my opinion. In fact, I think the guys who came up with this debt based money system are brilliant. But, of course, it doesn't mean I like the system.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
---
government of the people, by the people, for the people
---
The bread basket of commodities currency?
I think I'm for curtain against such a plan. For one thing whatever a currency is bound to that thing now becomes dependent on it as well. Remember the fiat dollar only works as long as the world deals it's oil in dollars. So if you have a silver or gold standard, whatever you use that thing can no longer be dealt with in any other currency. A paper receipt for gold or silver is suppose to be redeemable for gold or silver in return. I think the bread basket idea makes all thing under the umbrella subject to manipulation and would rather take my chances with at least gold and silver backing competitive currency.
The Hemp idea came about because if it were an energy producing crop it would be much like the dollar we have today accept that if the Marijuana Tax Act were repealed anyone can grow it. If you have a system were anyone can contribute to the overall energy needs of your region then you'd have a self sustaining system. If you have solar panels on the roof of your home and when you're consuming less energy than you're creating and feeding back into the system in return for energy credits. Everyone's overall energy cost would come down and energy dependency from outside systems no longer poses a threat your lives with enslavement.
Much the same thing could be done for Hemp. Farmers that grow hemp would turn it in to have it made into fuel and what not. Settle their debts in hemp credits which they can in turn trade on the open market.
So currently in my model I have four competing currencies gold, silver, solar,and hemp.
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
I guess
Fortune Favors the Bold
with competing currencies, most people would wind up using whatever worke best, or in other words, whatever was the most accurate technology to make resource utilization decisions based on.
Fortune Favors the Bold
I don't think so. Have you heard of Gresham's law?
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
---
government of the people, by the people, for the people
---
Gonna have to look it up but
Gonna have to look it up but you could at least share your take on it.
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"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
A very quick summary is that if there are competing currencies
people would prefer to use/circulate the one that is losing its value, thus, eventually, "bad" currency drives out "good" currency.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
---
government of the people, by the people, for the people
---