Spammers, bumpers, and overzealous promoters: Please follow the site rules!
I'd just like to call everyone's attention to this site's official Forum Posting Guidelines. It's not my desire to pass judgment on the worth of the many websites, blogs, projects, events, etc., that are discussed here. Most of you have your hearts in the right place. There are a few blatant spammers who are just looking to promote their website and generate traffic, but most of the rule-breakers are actually just trying to help this movement but haven't considered the ethics of their methods.
These rules aren't something I'm making up. They're not new. They're not unreasonable. And they exist for a reason. Michael Nystrom, the owner of this site, posted them over a year ago. For the full thread, click here. Here's a particularly important excerpt:
Any of the following will be sure to get you banned without warning:
Engaging in flame wars or personal attacks on other members, racist remarks, posting material completely unrelated to the campaign or the presidential race, bumping your own thread to keep it on the front page, posting the same non-related comment on multiple threads to promote your website or event, blatant advertising. If you cannot consistently spell or check your grammar, you may also be banned. Sorry. Posting here is a privilege, not a right.
Perhaps many of you are unaware of these rules. Consider yourself informed.
I'm not going to single out users who haven't been following these rules, but I hope we can all "stop the insanity" and stop using DailyPaul as a giant billboard for free advertising that drowns out substantive discussion. Hopefully we can move forward and help build a community that serves as a testing ground for ideas and discussion, and not the link-dump it -- at times -- seems to have become.
Thanks for reading.
Yes - let's stop the insanity - let's get this to the Supreme
Court
The following is one article in a newsletter called the "Privateer".
INSIDE THE UNITED STATES
THE END OF US LAW
In a deeply disturbing article in the New York Times, published on July 16, journalist Adam Liptak
reported that on July 15, the Virginia Federal Appeals Court ruled in a 5-4 decision that President Bush
has the legal power to order the indefinite military detention of civilians captured in the United States.
Please read that again: “The indefinite military detention of civilians!” Mr Liptak’s article proceeds to
the legal particulars of this case, but they are clear enough in his outline. Undeveloped, regrettably, are
the enormous principles involved here. The accused in the case is a foreign national - residing legally in
the US - who was arrested by the civilian authorities in 2001. After about two years in civilian courts
hands, he was transferred to the US military by the simple means of re-designating him as a “terrorist”.
He has been in military hands ever since. In terms of the principles involved, the true importance of this
case is that the Appeals Court has opened the door wide for the US Administration to have the civilian
authorities arrest people and then transfer them on their own say-so to US military authorities. Once that
is done, they can be held indefinitely! The Appeals Court ruling was wide enough to apply to Americans.
Mr Liptak headlined his story precisely enough: “Court Backs Bush On Military Detentions”.
De Facto - US Martial Law Is Imposed:
In principle, the Rule of Law has hereby ended inside the United States. When the civilian courts simply
hand people over to US military authorities who have expressed an “interest” in them, the Rule of Law is
no more. Such an act by the US civilian courts vacates the space specifically reserved for them in the
American Constitution. They have vacated their position as the third independent branch of government.
There are now two systems of courts inside the United States. The civilian courts which, under this
ruling, will stand as a forward screen giving a facade of normalcy. One step behind them will be the US
military authorities which can demand the hand-over of anybody in civilian custody - and the civilian
courts will comply. Under this ruling, who is to decide which people should be so treated? The US
Executive Branch of government. By this ruling, the Executive Branch has in its hands the means with
which to incarcerate anybody, simply on its own say-so, and hold them indefinitely! That is a tyranny!
It is with a haunting sense of intellectual anticipation that The Privateer has to refer back to the front page
of our previous issue where we dealt precisely with the nature of Martial Law. The real form of martial
law arrives when the US military itself gains the power to arrest American and all other civilians.
The Very Last Line(s) Of Self-Defence:
This ruling by the Federal Virginia Court of Appeal is certain to travel to the US Supreme Court. But it
might not even be heard - if the Supreme Court decides not to hear this case. If that is the outcome, then
in full legal terms it is all over because the lower Federal Appeal Court’s decision will stand.
If the US Supreme Court does hear the case and decides to overturn the lower Appeal Court, then all is
well and the US military and its jails have, for the moment, been parked on the sidelines. But, in hearing
this case, if the US Supreme Court upholds the lower Federal Court, then it is most certainly all over. The
United States would become a tyranny under permanent Martial Law. The Commander in Chief rules.
The other and very last line of self-defence is if the American public itself wakes up to this and what it
means to their future. But the likelihood of that happening is at present very small - the true defenders of
the American Constitution being very few.
This is a bigger potential crisis than ANY US financial collapse. The future of freedom is at stake.
Good to be reminded
of the guidelines we've all agreed to abide by, in order to stay here. To the people who verbally attacked the poster, he didn't do anything wrong, he addressed the situation in a mature manner and didn't name any names. The fact that anyone would get upset at this post, kind of signifies guilt.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Penndel Borough needs to step up and eliminate the crime they've created by not paving and maintaining Robbins Avenue
http://will86aber.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/penndel-borough-a...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Oh, he's already posted names and name-called.
He's quite a peach.
Guilt for promoting a project that promotes Ron Paul?
Um, no. I feel no guilt.
PLEASE SUPPORT DVDS 4 DELEGATES!
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President_★
“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”
--Ron Paul
Join the rEVOLution here: www.campaignforliberty.com
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
I agree.
Thank you for pointing that out. It's good to know I'm not alone in thinking that some people are going too far. They cross the line with their behavior to begin with. When someone rationally points that out, they turn around and urinate on that line by smearing the messenger with absurd accusations.
Thank you for chiming in. I think it will be good for some people to see that there are many people who've reluctantly tolerated their rule-breaking, but would like it to stop.
If you don't like the fact we are promoting Ron Paul, then
there is no way in hell you are a Ron Paul supporter. It is irrational on your part to ask us to stop.
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President_★
“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”
--Ron Paul
Join the rEVOLution here: www.campaignforliberty.com
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
I may regret this, but pray tell me what this thread is about??
The one right below my comment!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/55412
INSPIRE OTHERS! www.dvds4delegates.com
Want to know more about dvds4delegates?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rggu6Xb5Uqk
Historic moment at WA State Convention at minute 4 here!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4cVL_TdwZk
What are you fightin' for?
Caught in the middle?
Freedom is only for those with the guts to defend it!
That's an entirely separate thread, and not germane here.
If you want to debate the merits of that thread, perhaps you should comment there.
Also, this thread is not about your project, and yet your comment contains three links to it and a text reference. This is thread-jacking, and is entirely inappropriate. From the Forum Posting Guidelines:
I don't promote my threads and pet projects in your threads. In the future, please refrain from doing so in mine. :)
Oh my GOD!!! You were a HALL MONITOR!!!
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President_★
“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”
--Ron Paul
Join the rEVOLution here: www.campaignforliberty.com
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
Let me just say this. I don't believe in calling people names
and therefore, do not bump or comment on threads that involve arguments or slanders. This site is for promoting all things Ron Paul and Michael Nystrom has seen that the dvd project is a worthy cause since he posted a video about the dvds on the FRONT page. If you don't like the project, please refrain from reading and posting on such threads and quit calling people names. I will make a bargain with you here and hope you will agree to it. I will not post dvds4delegates on any of your threads -- with this last exception -- if you will quit harassing me and others for wanting to promote something (a site and a project that is NOT even MINE) that we believe will help Ron Paul win the GOP nomination. I am sorry if it got out of hand, I did not expect all that myself. If you will forgive our enthusiasm for wanting to elect Ron Paul and leave the dvd threads and those interested alone, I may be able to forgive you. I also don't think that 1 or 2 threads a day about it is unreasonable and my above post was quite relevent!
INSPIRE OTHERS! www.dvds4delegates.com
Want to know more about dvds4delegates?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rggu6Xb5Uqk
Historic moment at WA State Convention at minute 4 here!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4cVL_TdwZk
What are you fightin' for?
Caught in the middle?
Freedom is only for those with the guts to defend it!
Sigh
I've been telling people like tog and others "thank you for the civil tone" even when I disagree with them. I want to do that in this case, but can't.
You are probably a very nice person in real life, but your unethical argumentation on this site makes me want to pull my hair out. Therefore, I am done reasoning with you after this post. If you promote a project unethically or in violation of site rules (on this site or elsewhere), I will think less of that project. If you break the rules, I will push for you to be banned. End of story. We're all supporters of a candidate who doesn't like to compromise. Well I'm not compromising on the rules. The end doesn't justify the means.
Here are my final statements to you:
1. You are intellectually dishonest. You sit here and propose a "bargain" that asks me to stop doing things I'm not doing. I'm not "harassing" you, and when you propose a "bargain" that calls on me to stop doing so it's the argumentative equivalent of the classic "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" I have every right to object to what you and your kind have turned the DailyPaul into: your own little spamyard. Yes, it's spam. When the primary purpose of your posting is to promote a website -- and not engage in discussion -- it's spam. When you intentionally "bump" and create new (redundant) threads to increase visibility, you're "spamming." If you wish to object to the classification as "spamming," go right ahead. The facts are not in dispute. You've done these things. I'm not banging on your door or calling you on the telephone. I'm making a plea in a public place for you to modify your behavior. Under no reasonable definition is that "harassment" and I will not "bargain" with someone unless they retract such allegations and publicly apologize.
2. Fine, don't "bump or comment" on threads that have, in your opinion "insults." Do us all a favor and stop abusing the comment system by "bumping or commenting" on threads that promote specific projects you endorse, unless you're actually contributing to the substantive discussion.
And no, "WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" is not substantive discussion. "Bump for liberty!" isn't either. "Thank you all so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" isn't either. If you're not actually "speaking" in the forum, but you're using it to increase visibility for something, you're ABUSING it. If you really want to promote something that much, buy an ad.
3. I will gladly forgive you (and others) for their enthusiasm and past actions if the questionable methods CEASE. I admire the enthusiasm. I understand your objective. But when you say "I also don't think that 1 or 2 threads a day about it is unreasonable" I couldn't disagree with you more. If there are significant, qualitative developments that are newsworthy to the DailyPaul community, that's fine. But announcing that you personally donated isn't news. Announcing some arbitrary monetary benchmark isn't news. "It's time for an FAQ" (when this information is already available at the site, and it's been linked to 1000 times in the past week) isn't news.
The fact that a thread hasn't been created in a few hours is NOT justification for a new one. Creating new threads with no real news, or bumping old ones, just to increase visibility, is not appropriate. It's an abuse of the comment system. If I create a blog and want to generate traffic because I feel it's important, and I created two new threads a day here to promote it, I'd surely (and accurately) be labeled a spammer! This is no different, regardless of the VALUE of the content you're promoting.
4. Michael Nystrom putting a fairly newsworthy video from G.E. Griffin on the front page is NOT the same as a blank check for spamming. Perhaps it's a worthy cause or (at the very least) one Paulites should be made aware of. That does not mean that the overzealous methods are OK.
5. I'm tired of you shifting the debate to the importance of your project. The value of the project is completely irrelevant. Rules are rules. The end does not justify the means.
-----
That being said, I will gladly cease fire on this issue if there ceases to be a reason for me to raise concerns. If people stop creating redundant threads, I'll stop objecting. If people stop endlessly bumping and posting meaningless comments just to keep certain threads high on the list, I'll be fine. If people stop thread-jacking
unrelated threads to post links to their pet projects, candidates, websites, etc., I won't object (that includes excessive signatures and the absurd reverse-signature). If you want to promote unrelated websites and candidates in your signature, you ought to disable the signature when posting on other threads or refrain from posting there.
My signature is VERY MUCH on topic, thank you very much!!
Also, that is the sort of deal you are trying to pawn on me and, like you, I will NOT be coerced into changing it. This site is for RON PAUL and the dvd project IS RELATED TO HIM and has NO MONEY with which to advertise -- if they had the money why bother?? It is a VOLUNTEER project and I don't even know why I am reasoning with you. ENOUGH SAID! I am done!! If words are a weapon, than a MIRROR is my shield! What you direct at me reflects DIRECTLY back on you!!!!!
INSPIRE OTHERS! www.dvds4delegates.com
Want to know more about dvds4delegates?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rggu6Xb5Uqk
Historic moment at WA State Convention at minute 4 here!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4cVL_TdwZk
What are you fightin' for?
Caught in the middle?
Freedom is only for those with the guts to defend it!
The comments below and who made them are very telling ...
Do you not agree Jack?
WAHOR!!!
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
Thanks all for promoting the DVD project.
Keep it bumped!
If Michael has a problem with us promoting Ron Paul, he can say so -- not Jack Parkman.
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President_★
“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”
--Ron Paul
Join the rEVOLution here: www.campaignforliberty.com
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
You are thread-jacking, ma'am.
This post has absolutely nothing to do with the project you linked to. This is thread-jacking, and it violates the Forum Posting Guidelines, which state:
This thread is not about the project you linked to. Your comment is completely off-topic and therefore is inappropriate and unwelcome on this thread.
Okay, ban me then. But, before I go, please support the DVD
project.
You are not the boss of this site.
If I'm "thread-jacking", you're "website-jacking".
We are here for Ron and this is our last chance to make a difference. If that's a problem for you -- go away. I will fight those that try to stop me from promoting the best presidential candidate this country has seen in nearly 200 years.
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President_★
“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”
--Ron Paul
Join the rEVOLution here: www.campaignforliberty.com
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
OVERZEALOUS??
Promoters of Ron Paul pathways to success in a world about ready to implode our economy and our Constitutional rights. I have seen you post on this forum maybe 10 times total and always in defense of telling us what is ok and not ok to do, no suggestions of forwarding this Revolution. The owner of this site is fully capable of monitoring what is allowed here and what is not. How about something constructive from you other than giving us ground rules as though we are your students. Back off Jack.
Nice, victory.
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President_★
“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”
--Ron Paul
Join the rEVOLution here: www.campaignforliberty.com
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
Lisa, Jack
is just too greeley for me if you know what I mean.
Right here .... watch this and you will know why
Winning and Losing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DN-fhY96p0
Time is of the essence! We are down to the last three minutes!
***************************************************
Watch this video G Edward Griffin Explains/Endorses DVDS for Delegates! Never Give up! Never Give In!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rggu6Xb5Uqk
Project Site ! Donate! Spread the Message! DO SOMETHING!
http://dvds4delegates.com/
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
I encourage Daughter, Tog, and Liberty
I understand where your coming from, Jack, but I'm happy they are doing so. This is our last, serious effort in getting Dr. Paul the nomination. Before the "Spamming" truly begun, the project was on the verge of complete failure, and our primary goal of getting Dr. Paul into the White House would have been undoubtedly unmet. Now the project is thriving and is closer to completion than ever before. Once they reach their monetary goal then the spamming will stop, and Ron Paul will be in the best possible position to succeed. I do not want this election to go by without giving our best effort trying to get Ron the nomination. If the DailyPaul needs to "suffer" through all the spamming for a couple more months/weeks while we all are trying our best in getting Ron into the White House so be it. We all need to come together and support this cause because it is our last true hope for 2008....
An timetable to stop "spamming" isn't enough
First of all, thank you for the civil tone, which is helpful.
The "spamming" is never appropriate. Saying that "Once they reach their monetary goal then the spamming will stop," really isn't cutting it.
The end doesn't justify the means. If there's one thing Dr. Paul has taught us it's that principle matters.
The "end" is saving our country.
We are at WAR, Jack.
Post away, DVD friends.
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President_★
“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”
--Ron Paul
Join the rEVOLution here: www.campaignforliberty.com
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
Hey Jack
You're right you're not the owner of this site. So with this knowledge follow the posting guidlines and self delete this post. Next time you feel the need to play police officer on this site just post the guidlines in the thread that you think is not helping the cause of Constitutional Freedom because that is about all you can do other than complain about it. Also as long as the MSM continues to use the same repetitive propaganda on the masses I'll continue to be repetitive and state over and over and over that 9/11 was a inside job because it was.
Also that HHO works and anyother topic that will help further peoples independence of this Tyrannical government who are flourishing off the lies and destroying freedom as we know it.
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
me thinks he's just bored
"Ideas have consequences." Ron Paul
"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski
I Love DailyPaul!
If I wasn't so lazy, I'd wright a moving song about it right now!
I love DailyPaul even with all the Spammers, bumpers,
and overzealous promoters. (Even the office worker from
Jones Soda whose job it is to bump the Ron Paul bottles
every 2 hours.)
Musician/Assistant Meetup organizer. Hear my stuff: www.myspace.com/americanpirates
Just launched http://iroots.org/
Activism Training.
bwaaahahaaa
I nearly peed when I read this lolol
(Even the office worker from
Jones Soda whose job it is to bump the Ron Paul bottles
every 2 hours.)
__________
Freedom. Watch this video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mhmbzE1TR0s
Pls donate here Ron Paul can still win
http://www.dvds4delegates.com/
__________
Freedom. Watch this video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mhmbzE1TR0s
Pls donate here Ron Paul can still win
http://www.dvds4delegates.com/
I respect your opinion and the rules on this site but we must
www.dvds4delegates.com the newest and possibly the greatest weapon the Revolution now possesses.
not misuse the term overzealous. Do not confuse overzealous with the need of repetition. Sometimes repetition is needed in order for all to see it. As far as posting off subject topic themes, I have done it to be fun, not to mislead. Ron Paul himself told us to have fun- I am just following his rules for a Revolution. Finally I don't think there is any such thing as overzealous for an idea or project that will help Ron Paul get elected. I think the word determination is more appropriate, and there is no such thing as having too much determination. Please if my threads bother you, click on them and then click off as soon as you see them. It only takes a few seconds of your time, and while I respect your time, I think it is selfish of you not to allow me to be the person I am on this site. I am not on this site to waste my time, anything I do or post on here is with good intention and for hopefully somme benefits to us all including you. Thank you for this post, your words were respectful and well thought out, but please in return respect my right to who I am, and how I choose to help the causes of Liberty.
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!
Thank you for your civility, but...
Your civility is noted and appreciated.
As for allowing you to "be you," it is not up to me. I am not the owner of this site. But neither are you, and neither of us is unjustified in stating our opinion regarding how the site should operate.
When overzealousness (or determination, as you put it) becomes rule-breaking, it is inappropriate.
Think of the rules as the Constitution. We are free to disagree with the Constitution and to change the Constitution. But that's a separate debate from a specific, unconstitutional policy. As constitutionalists, we don't like it when members of Congress break the Constitution because they feel they are "determined" that pet project is worth it. We would respect them if they proposed a Constitutional amendment, even if we disagreed with the proposed amendment and fought to defeat it.
When you apply that analogy to this site, you're left with options. If you disagree with the rules, you can debate them and maybe persuade the site owner to change them. Or you can take your appeals to a different venue with rules you agree with.
Ultimately, I agree for the most part with the rules. I think if behavior is so "determined" (or overzealous) that it breaks the rules through self-bumping or blatant advertising, it's bad for the site and bad for the movement, on balance. Sure, maybe the DVD project (to site an example you bring up) benefits by some minuscule increment, but the credibility of the forums suffers. Fewer people will frequent the forums and learn about other important developments. The movement takes a hit.
Hell, I'll even argue that the DVD project, for example, suffers. I'm now soured on it because the overly enthusiastic proponents have convinced me it's not a very professional endeavor and I believe my efforts are better spent elsewhere. This "blowback" effect is significant.
So, if you disagree with the rules, I'll respect your right to disagree and maybe the community can set more acceptable rules. But openly breaking them, as some have done repeatedly, should not be tolerated.
Heck, even in this thread you have broken the rules. This thread is about referring people to the forum posting guidelines, not about a specific controversy. Your response states:
Not only is that incoherent and not a sentence, but it's a clear example of "threadjacking" and violates the forum posting guidelines, which prohibit (under penalty of immediate banning):
Again, I appreciate the civility and I hope that, as a community, we can come together, see eye to eye, and function together to make this forum a vibrant hub for discussion. But I think such a forum needs fair and effective guidelines, and that those guidelines should be enforced. While we are free to discuss the guidelines and move toward acceptable community standards, anarchy will only cause this place to degrade and lose its effectiveness.
Well, as I just posted on the site guidelines link, I don't
know what a flame war is..
Anyway, Mr. Parkman, those of us who consider this site our home away from home, know exactly why you are doing this topic...you don't like the dvds4delegates issue. Did you complain when there were 4,5,6 topics at one time about Barr?? (only asking)
One thing I would like to say is this: I find very arrogant of you to say above, "consider yourself informed"...would that not be Mr. Nystrom's place to say that?? It's his site, not yours.... Not only that, but if someone doesn't read this topic, how would they be informed?? Telepathically???
PEACE
Berwick, Columbia County, Pennsylvania
Ron Paul 2012 - The People's Choice
rEVOLution SuperPAC: http://www.revolutionpac.com/
WTP Federal Lawsuit to BAN ALL ELECTRONIC VOTING
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2011-07-26...
You're misinformed and wrong
I am now opposed to the DVD project because of the behavior of its promoters. Is it a terrible idea? No. But I don't think you're going to persuade party loyalists who've been hand-picked, in most cases, by GOP power-brokers to defect to Ron Paul.
You complain about what you perceive is my "arrogance," but it is arrogant of you to proclaim that you know my motivation. You are free to speculate. You have every right to state an opinion. But "knowing" implies fact, not opinion.
I have been outspoken with regards to the forum rules for some time. I was outspoken long before the DVD project was born. If you would research my history on this site, you'd "know" that.
Also, you're wrong about me not being outspoken with regards to the "Barr spammers." I called for unity and civility between pro-Barr and pro-Baldwin folks and those who aren't fond of them, on many threads. I even created a thread called "CEASE FIRE" calling on these people to come together. In that thread, I called on the Barr/Baldwin folks to reduce the number of threads and restrict themselves only to posting major news.
Expanding this movement requires us to work together and create an environment newcomers will not be turned off by. When I noticed too much unnecessary feuding, I tried to broker some understanding. When I saw too much obsessive (and frankly, amateurish) promoting, I tried to improve that situation by asking people to tone it down. Apparently, that makes me a "dis-info troll" and an "agent," and some people decided to shoot the messenger, so things have (sadly) escalated. But sometimes a little bit of confrontation is needed for us to focus on a problem and fix it.