Arrogant Veterans

and lots of great advice here.

It's really no task at all, to educate most people.

What is nearly impossible is convincing them to unlearn the lifetime's worth of sophistry, propaganda and lies; all of which precludes them from realizing that we may have something valuable to teach them in the first place. I also call these people the “collective ignorant”.

But the thing is "the people" are vast and diverse. Many are working actively, diligently, to bring an end to the crimes we outline. Probably most are too busy trying to deal with unnecessarily overcomplicated lives (to some extent due to the perpetration of these crimes by their "representatives") to even notice much beyond their immediate crisis.

Another thing is to separate the soldiers from the mission. Mostly our soldiers are good people, patriotic people who are doing their duty for their country. They have risked their lives, their health and their futures for their nation and do deserve our gratitude, respect and support. The problem with the Iraq occupation is not our soldiers but the rich and corrupt military-industrial complex that is manufacturing bogus but very profitable wars. They are the worst enemy of our nation, our freedom AND our soldiers. Our military personnel are largely good. They should remain well trained, well armed, provided with the best of the best in armament and kept here at home to defend our nation if called upon to do so. Their lives should not be spent enriching the likes of Haliburton.

Many veterans think because they served they have a monopoly on patriotism. You have to understand that it’s an emotional thing. It’s very hard for someone to admit to themselves after what they may have sacrificed in war that it might have been an unjust war. So they don’t want to listen especially to anyone who has not been through what they have.

The best way to deal with this is to get some veterans who are Ron Paul supporters and against the war to stand with you, they are out there. Ask your meetup. Also ask them why Ron Paul receives more donations from active duty military then all other candidates combined? Also when showing videos get some of the videos of Iraq veterans who are against the war.

Also make sure your not coming off disrespectful to veterans or there service. I usually start out thanking them for their service and letting them know I am not questioning their service or looking down on them for their service as they believed they were doing the right thing. People don’t want to believe they participated in an unjust war, but many veterans are realizing and waking up. Still some of them may be willing to listen to another veteran when they would not listen to someone else.

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alot of people just do'nt know , care ,or give a - - - - until they step in it. Unfortunetly some of them get used to the smell :(

As for the war, now I realize we shouldn't have been there to begin with, it was justified based upon lies, the head of the CIA was disgracefully forced to resign because of it. With my newfound realization that we went to war based upon lies, it's apparent that leaving is not giving up everything already sacrificed, leaving is cutting our losses short and preventing further unnecessary sacrifice - the longer we stay, the more we lose.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/56606

......belief system tied up in what the government has told them. Almost all vets are good people who did sacrifice much, and it would be a natural reaction to view a questioning attitude towards our government as a negative response towards themselves. In many cases, these people have personal doubts about our government and the course it has taken, but are unwilling to admit it to themselves, because they think it calls into question their own sacrifice. Many veterans don't see that it is two separate things, they are true patriots, but so are the protesters. To serve one's country is honorable, the veterans are honorable, but the people running our government at this time are anything but honorable. Keep up the good fight. Continue your education. You are on the right path.

I completely sympathize. Those guys think that being a veteran is an end all for debates and arguments. I'm so sick of war-hawks whether they have served in the military or not.

OUR TROOPS DON'T DEFEND FREEDOM!! is what I want to shout at them. They take an oath to protect the constitution and yet they blindly follow a president who shts on it. If they were asked to use force against US citizens because of the president's command they would do it. The founding fathers never wanted standing armies but you can't get through to those ass holes.

and i can tell you first hand it's all a lie. and looking back on it i'm not even sure who was attacking us. most of the time it was obvious it was other American forces shooting at us. i'd say 90% of the direct fire i received was from passing US convoys. what i'm not sure about is who was planting and detonating those bombs. of course i'm supposed to believe it was some dirt poor Iraqi. of course while i was there we were told it was them damn foreign fighters. now that i've had two years to look back on it i wouldn't doubt one bit if it was the CIA. i still want to know how some of these massive bombs were planted right under our noses. i was on a tank. we have thermal and night vision capabilities. we maintained a 24 hour presence on that damn highway. and yet somehow people would be able to plant massive bombs. ones that would only be triggered if a track vehicle drove over them. i have no proof it was anybody other than locals. but even guys i served with are questioning who it was. i know whenever we deployed sniper teams in the middle of the night and they would stay out until dark the next day nothing would happen. like they always knew when we had them out. yet the day they were gone BOOM!

and i know for a fact Special Forces gave locals radios and other equipment because they were supposedly informants for them. maybe SF was informing them of our positions. i hate to accuse those guys of anything like that because i worked directly with them. and i saw the results they got, but shit doesn't add up to me.

i know if an Iraqi police officer is alive 3 months after starting the job he's dirty. and i don't blame him one bit. those guy are sitting ducks. it's one gigantic goat f#*k over there

and the only thing I need to understand from my representatives is that they took an oath to defend and uphold the U.S. Constitution just like I did when I joined. I did not take an oath to support a candidate or even a party.

I am totally disgusted with what this President, and our Congress has done. Our government as a whole no longer respects the Oaths they have taken for their office, and must be removed, it is our jobs as American Patriots, and citizens to see that they are removed. Stop being afraid, speak up, and made your voices be heard, and if that does not do the trick, do what Glenn Beck wants to do, raise up your pitch forks and do battle.

You are living the life of Ron Paul. He gets the same thing in Congress. Laughed at, put down, ignored.

Here, read this post:

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

Try to realize who you are and how people percieve you. Set some realistic goals based on your self evaluation. Then go out and achieve them.

That is what life is all about.

I wish you well and God speed.

WAHOR!!

I served in the first Gulf War, and I'm behind you all the way. It's the neo-cons and their propaganda machine that's creating this attitude. Don't worry about it... freedom never comes easy... always with a price. Most of those people are just like I was just a few years ago. Apathetic and brainwashed. Ignore them, because you know you're on the right side of the argument.

Most veterans believe they are defending your freedom. They think that you should be greatful to them and the only reason you are free, is because of them.

So to them, they see you as a whiney civilian who is anti-govt and a sympathizer to the enemy..

Nobody defends freedom but them. You piss ant civilians don't defend freedom. Questioning your govt and holding them accountable is not defending your freedom... because to most military and govt officials, govt is never an enemy of your freedom. I think most military have the Nixon mentality... if the govt does it.. it's not illegal. so basically you need to quit your whining, and worship govt because they are protecting your freedom.

That is what I have come to the conclusion of.. from talking with many veterans and current military members. I get the sense that a lot of them no longer have the ability to use their own brains.. they just say what's been programmed into them. I say this, having a life long friend in the marines, who has that mentality. He never use to be that way.

My tricks for when I debate someone is to debate them as if I am on their side and I always agree with what they are saying whether I believe it or not. That way, they will be more likely to come to your side because they think that they'd already come to that conclusion on their own. Also, that way they won't feel that they need to be defensive. Start by saying you respect their patriotism and the fact that they are willing to put their lives on the line. After all, you certainly wouldn't have the courage. (build them up so they have no reason to feel defensive) Then explain that that is why you are so outraged that the Bush administration has taken advantage of them for that in order to further their own agenda.
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"We will never give up. We will never give in." - Dr. Ron Paul

You can't save everyone, remember to try to save yourself.

Don't try to engage them directly. Get some good documentaries together, burn them to DVD and let them dispute what's on the DVD.

I recommend you check out Michael Ruppert.

...at some point you're going to have to leave them behind.

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...and remember that these "old" veterans come from a different generation, a generation that could NEVER question their government or discuss their concerns in a public forum, they simply believed what they were told. You come from a time of instant information and the luxury of having access to volumes of information and historical fact and so you are enlightened to the truth and cannot understand how they cannot be enlightened as well. I'm just pleased that you are willing to engage in conversations about important issues... you never know who may be listening. Good Job!