NAFTA
A question for all of the extremely knowledgeable people out there. What exactly was it in NAFTA that allowed so many of our jobs to go overseas? I mentioned that NAFTA was a very bad thing for this country to someone a while ago, and he challenged me on it. I know it was very bad, but don't know the specifics as to how it stole away millions (and continuing) of jobs here.
A few have suggested to me that many countries already had free trade agreements with us (like China) long before NAFTA. So what was it in NAFTA that helped destroy us? What specifically changed that made that agreement a nightmare for most in the U.S.?
Ross Perot talked about the sucking sound from this country if NAFTA was approved......and you can sure hear it now! I was sick the night B.C. was elected knowing that was likely going to happen. Apparently, according to an article here posted a while ago, nobody that was against NAFTA won an election that year. Hmmmmm. Sound familiar? Seems like anyone that wants peace these days can't get elected either. That's just a coincidence, isn't it?
Lisa C., SIERRA, Michael N, zenpiper? Anybody? Haven't seen the zen here in a long time; always liked his posts.





















"harmonization"
scary
Pavin' The Way
For the "North American Union"!
http://www.americanpatrol.com/
Another problem with NAFTA
is the militarization of Mexico using our U.S. tax dollars.
The U.S. is funneling millions of our tax dollars to Mexico to help fight the "War on Drugs". For additional information Google "Plan Mexico".
It is a plan drafted in 2007 which "contains direct donations of military and intelligence equipment, and training programs for Mexican law enforcement officials. A White House fact sheet lists surveillance equipment, helicopters and aircraft, scanners for border revisions, communications systems, and training programs for “strengthening the institutions of justice.” An additional $50 million dollars is earmarked for Central American countries to support their fight against “gangs, drugs, and arms.” Additionally they are planning to use Blackwater agents or some sort of PMC's (Private Military Companies) to help in the patrols and other "policing" duties.
This is all done under the guise of NAFTA, CAFTA, and the SPP (Security and Prosperity Partnership) Ultimately, "Plan Mexico" could (and in my opinion WILL) contribute to the creation of a police state in Mexico.
The potential dangers of Trade Agreements...
...are many, unless you are a multinational corporation like, let's say, WalMart, who currently has in excess of 500 factories operating in China (yes, WalMart has factories/subcontractors) employing thousands upon thousands of people who work in extremely abusive conditions manufacturing products to be sold to WalMart customers back in America undercutting the traditional circles of trade and commerce operating within the our nation. Read this article exposing the flaws of U.S. Trade Policy and quoting Peru's President Alan Garcia "Come and open your factories in my country so we can sell your products back to the United States."
http://www.americaneconomicalert.org/view_art.asp?Prod_ID=2911
NAFTA and other trade agreements, blocs, partnerships, etc. attempt to circumvent our constitution by giving legal authority to an international body organized and supervised by the United Nations... not the United States. When a new trade agreement is enacted with a foreign government it provides great powers to the U.S. Corporate interests as they continue to shut down their U.S. operations and relocate their production and manufacturing to these new "Business Shelters", much like the tax shelter nations of the caribbean where many of these unethical manufacturing companies are now headquartered. Just look at Haliburton... Our nations largest defense contractor by far and they are now headquartered in the Persian Gulf region with no extradition back to the U.S... how crooked is that... and HOW can they be allowed to continue to be given our billion dollar military infrastructure contracts... they are no longer an American-based corporation... they are no longer American!
The root problem is that these agreements primarily favor the needs of the wealthy corporations over the needs of the peoples of either of the nations encumbered by the entanglements.
What could be more American
What could be more American than no longer being American? Being a "world citizen" maybe?
:-P
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The Antidote to neoCon Koolaid: www.dvds4delegates.com
"We really do have...a once in a lifetime opportunity to take the Republican Party back to where it was." -Kent Snyder, 1959-2008
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"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
http://mises.org/ Just use
http://mises.org/
Just use 'search' and you'll find lots of good studies for NAFTA
Bob...regardless
Regardless of what the acronym implies...NAFTA is not a free trade agreement. A document that gives true free trade could be written on the back of a napkin...the NAFTA document is thousands of pages and 20+ chapters long.
What this is...it's managed trade. It's a document that says x amount of this type of goods can be shipped duty free, under these circumstances, and only on the second Tuesday of the month.
The reason people feel it's bad for American manufacturing jobs is this. Imagine a textile company making blankets in Yuma, AZ. They pay their workers $8 per hour. They could move to Mexico, where they could pay their workers $0.80 per hour. The only roadblocks to doing this would be the cost of moving the factory, and the cost of importing the blankets to be sold in the states.
When NAFTA was approved, the duty put on Mexican made blankets was lifted, so many manufacturing companies shut down US operations and moved them to Mexico, where they can now pay next to nothing in wages, benefits, let alone the lack of regulations and taxes they are subject to in the states.
With NAFTA, the feds now can pick and choose which US industries they can destroy by selectively making certain goods free of import duty, and also can protect industries they choose by keeping high duties on some things.
Basically...it gives more control to a government that has wayyy too much control over US business. They can take bribes to protect a certain industry at the expense of another...and we trust them with too much power already.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
So, jzneff...
Essentially, the tariffs that were in place to protect the American worker, have been removed which allows these other countries to bring in goods with no tariff and put American workers out of a job, yes?
From what I can tell, the average American seems to have gotten a ten or twenty percent disount for buying foreign goods from places like Wal-Mart. In exchange, we get to have poisonous products and ultimately lose many of our jobs or have our salary cut into ribbons over time. What a deal!
Did all countries pay a tariff before NAFTA, do you know?
Thanks for response.
Bob W., Naples, FL
Yes...sort of
Tariffs have always been in place to provide federal funding...one of the fringe benefits has been that they tend to protect jobs in the multinational corporation age we live in.
Every country plays these tariff games...to punish their adversaries, to protect their own industries, or just to raise money for governments to spend (waste).
In a truly fair trade world...there would be a universal tariff based on the value of the product to be imported, and it would be applied completely across the board with no exceptions. I've always found it unfair the nonsense mercantilist attitudes against trade that always seem to arise, and it seems the USA takes the short end of the stick every time.
In a perfect world, we would have fair trade agreements with every country, and they would all include a across the board (yet low) tariff on anything that enters our country. In a perfect world, though, we wouldn't have John McCain vs. Barack Obama for president...
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
Also
They don't have to pay social security,fica ,suta,vacation,sick days,maternal leave and they don't have to worry their little heads with affirmative action, OSHA or any of those nuisances. But here's the kicker....If a percentage of their day to day dealings are done in another country they transfer their headquarters location and avoid paying corporate taxes.
And to think, college degrees were subsidzed by taxpayers just so they could be used to find ways to skirt paying taxes and contributing to the economy.
They don't have to pay
They don't have to pay social security,fica ,suta,vacation,sick days,maternal leave
Funny I don't get those things either and I work in the states. In a bad economy the hard worker can not afford to take advantage of the above. The days of American workers being spoiled brats has ended. All I can say is welcome to my world people and get back to the grind because if You don't someone else will take your job.
So, jkm...
guess we know who you voted for. You pay no social security, fica, what? How does that happen and what is your point?
"The days of Amercan workers being spoiled brats has ended." Interesting, If you are so content, why are you posting this site?
In a bad economy, perhaps we should ask ouselves how we got there? Sorry that you have no concern as to where this country is headed.
Bob W., Naples, FL
JKM
I suppose we should be grateful to work 7 days a week and eat bread and water.
Interesting article here,
Interesting article here, maybe some helpful points.
http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontrade/2007/07/ron-paul-for-...
More jobs have been imported to this country
that have been exported, so I'm not sure what the problem is.
Dr. Paul is for open borders as far trade is concerned. He's very much a free trader. I know he opposes NAFTA as being "managed trade" that gives special privileges to some business. I'm also wondering about specifics.
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Trolling in the defense of liberty is no vice.
More jobs?
What kind of Koolaid are you drinking?
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The Antidote to neoCon Koolaid: www.dvds4delegates.com
"We really do have...a once in a lifetime opportunity to take the Republican Party back to where it was." -Kent Snyder, 1959-2008
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
The Koolaid of knowledge.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2004/12/pdf/amiti.pdf
Are you a protectionist?
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Trolling in the defense of liberty is no vice.
Speaking of Koolaid
This article is from 2004 where this situation was not as pronounced. It will only get worse as most DPers know. As for where the article came from, it was written by a member of the IMF. What information from them would one ever trust. Remember how everyone said how great NAFTA would be, well take a look now. The unemployment and poverty levels in this country is staggering. True unemployment is in the area of 15%.....and growing.
If a "protectionist" is someone that is wanting to protect this country and people in the country from harm, then yes, I'm a protectionist. The people that wanted NAFTA are fascists destroying America; much prefer being a protectionist than a fascist.
When you are the richest country, as we were, you don't make agreements with other countries that can only damage your citizens....unless you don't care about those citizens!
Bob W., Naples, FL
So you don't have any studies
to counter it. All you can do is attack that researcher because of where they work, instead of the research.
Do you have a study to back up your claim that unemployment is in the area of 15%. That's proposterous.
I never said I was for NAFTA. I'm not for managed trade. I'm for free trade. Unrestricted transfer of good, services, and jobs across all borders. Just as Dr. Paul is for.
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Trolling in the defense of liberty is no vice.
Studies?
Please tell me that you are kidding me. Take a look around and look at reality, not what some joker wants you to believe. Everywhere I go I ask people how their business is doing. Invariably, the answer is: "it's not!" I've done a lot more study on the subject than you apparently have. I talk to thousands of people around the country in my job, and I can tell you that not too many are bragging about how well things are going. One only needs to look at the thousands of posts on DailyPaul to see how wonderful the economy is going.......substantially from NAFTA, thank you very much. Any more wonderful articles you'd like to broach here?
Anyone else believe this article? How many of you people out there are keeping up with inflation and have very secure jobs? I'm afraid the answer you may get, you may not like......as it doesn't correspond with your article, quotes.
And that is preposterous, not "proposterous." And around 15% unemployment is accurate. When you supply me with a couple of million to get the accurate results from a true study, I'd be glad to prove it to you. I think everyone here knows when someone here posts articles from the IMF, that person is either a fool or a con. You choose which one you are.
And unrestricted trade is not want Ron Paul wants. He wants NAFTA out.
Bob W., Naples, FL
Many more jobs
For illegals that get paid peanuts by big corporations and lower the potential wages for American citizens. By making the illegals all citizens, the corp. get super low wages and our boys get social security and taxes from them. Sounds like a great plan.......if you're not a citizen of this country or the owner or CEO of a large corporation.!
Bob W., Naples, FL