Secession--As a Concept
It's looking too late for the USA...in its present form.
The probable future of the US, that could lead to Liberty, is secessionism. The rest of the system, other than the libertarian/ paleoconservative minority, is controlled not by conspiracy, but by socialism and jingoism. The neocons could not survive politically without the patriotic support of that 28 percent Republican base---and the Democrats could not survive without their fantasy image of being "good guys who care about the little man and the Poor". But the nature of such specialization is that the country is dividing into
tribalist camps instead of a union.
If one state--say, Montana, Alaska, New Hampshire, or Hawaii, had the testicular fortitude to break away from the US, or if an Indian tribe (like the Lakota Sioux) seceded in no uncertain terms, no amount of flag-waving jingoism or touchy-feely liberal horse manure would justify any war or attack on fellow Americans. There wouldn't be any second civil war over secession, in my opinion, no matter how nasty and Draconian the police state may be. The police state is dependent upon the factional support of "patriotic" percentages of the people.
I think it's ironic the reaction this topic has with some folks, as if discusing it is tantamount to committing an act of terrorism itself. (Especially in a movement that throws around the word "revolution" willy-nilly.)
Secession is a political process. It is not a civil war. The two are not necessarily linked.
The Free State Project is a sort of secessionary movement in its philosophical essence.
We should discuss this, IMHO, because the only way we will ever have a successful constitutional restoration is piecemeal on a state's rights level.
We Can Do it Without Seceeding...
Here are my feelings. I am not against secession per say; however I don’t think it is necessary. All that is needed IMO is to take control of ones state and as someone said have those in state government who have the courage to stand up to the federal government and force them back to their constitutional bounds. If the governor and legislature helps educate the local governments and county sheriffs to not allow federal agencies to impose or enforce unconstitutional laws and mandates the state could be free. This could be done by resolutions and executive orders etc.
The reason I think this is the way to go is because it accomplishes essentially the same things but takes secession off the table as one more thing that can be used to demonize the state and perhaps justify an attack on it. It would be much more likely to gain sentiment from the people also.
If a state had a governor and other officers with the fortitude to stand up to the feds they could implement sound money, get rid of all the federal alphabet agencies, promote alternative fuels, and self reliance to free themselves from dependence on federal monies used to blackmail the states into complying with unconstitutional laws and mandates. Take back supposed federal lands, nullify the IRS, restart logging and forest products industries by nullifying the EPA etc. putting all those issues back where they belong within the states.
This would free people up to start businesses unburdened by federal regulation and agencies making the state prosperous and self reliant attracting new business and setting examples for other states to follow suite.
I have the beginnings of a plan for Idaho to do this and so far have one legislator on board but I need to really lay it out in detail.
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Agree
My hope lies in secession.
The coming economic collapse is going to weaken the Federal government making it less able to fight secession. And the government's predictable dictatorial, yet incompetent, response to the crisis is likely to motivate some people to want to secede. If the Federal government gets weak enough, and the people get angry enough, and there are some revolutionaries in state government that raise secession as a solution, it just "might" work!
Otherwise, forget it.
Carry out secession as far as it will go
I'd like to see secession carried out down through all jurisdictional levels to that of the individual: states secede from the Fed government, counties secede from the states, cities and towns from the counties and individuals from the cities, leaving a society of free individuals interacting on a consensual basis. Those who object such an society would be lawless, hence chaotic, haven't done their homework
marlow
marlow
I half agree
I love the idea of anarcho-capitalism. But I think maybe thats thats a little further of in the future. Right now I would love to see the formation new smaller union of states.
There is no question about it ...
this idea has merit.
It is the only peaceful avenue for a revolution of ideas.
It will happen.
The question is when, and can we, through our efforts, up that time line.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
I've been so disgusted with
I've been so disgusted with 'centralized' government for so many years. Texas kept its right to secede when we joined the union...I sorely wish we would exercise that right..but we are one of the wealthier states so I don't believe TPTB would allow us to do that peacefully. I know Texans in general are certainly stirred up enough to take this sort of action, but our state legislature is joined at the hip with Bush and co. Wish we could trade for some of those gutsy Oklahoma legislators.
I believe in the right to secede but,
I think the texas secession clause is a myth. As far as I know some of the initial colonies had such written in their constitutions but not texas.
Well, we tried it.
But, unfortunately the Powers that Be considered it a "matter of national security" and made it into a war.
We didn't win.
Instead of "freeing the slaves", they made slaves out of the rest of us. At least the ones of us that they didn't already kill.
We will never forget it. And when they need us to come to their aid one day, we will turn our backs on them.
If you try it, prepare to be attacked. That will be the first test of whether a new country can survive. And the US, as the world's foremost aggressor nation, will do the attacking, I can assure you. We have large cemeteries full of silent witnesses all around here.
What I'm wondering, frankly,
What I'm wondering, frankly, is where the people who use the word "revolution" are going to end up, vis-a-vis FEMA camps and the police state, versus people who advocate peaceful secession.
If there is no such thing as peaceful secession, there is no such thing as peaceful revolution.
OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
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It's been my experience
that there is only a peaceful settlement, when BOTH sides of the equation are going to be peaceful about it. If one side decides not to be peaceful about it, then you aren't going to have peace. And I think we've seen enough of what one side does in these circumstances, to know the answer.
Now, about your question about "who will end up where".
I have a particularly pessimistic idea about that, which may or may not be accurate.
I think it only comes down to which ones of us are killed or are incarcerated first.
Not which ones will and which ones won't.
We're all going down in one way or another, if this juggernaut isn't stopped.
They are not in this for magnanimous purposes. This is about domination. If you don't comply with their demands, there will be war, and they will be the perpetrators of it
Oops! double post
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