Question for Baldwin supporters
Assuming your guy doesn't get on enough ballots to win, what are your plans? I know Barr is all set in that department; I'm not sure about Nader but he's probably close. Will you support one of those two, or not vote, or...?
I've said from the beginning that I'll be writing in Ron Paul, but I'm starting to realize that I'm just being stubborn; it won't send a message because nobody will know whose name is on all those write-ins. We'd all know it was Paul, but I want the media to choke on it, which isn't going to happen.
I don't like Baldwin for reasons I won't go into here since I'm directly addressing his supporters, but if he doesn't get on the ballots it'll be a moot point anyway.
I don't like Barr for many different reasons that you Baldwin supporters are well aware of so I won't elaborate. I watched the LP convention debate and liked Kubby the best (he seemed the most genuinely libertarian to me), but Barr makes me leery.
As to Nader, I basically hate the bulk of his platform, but on the other hand I do support ballot access activists (no matter what their politics are), and I really respect what he's done in that area, as well as his anti-corporatist efforts.
I don't know what to do anymore, but I don't want to vote for someone with zero chance, and I don't want to make a non-statement. That leaves four names, at present, and I don't like any of them.
So what are you going to do?
Our only hope is to get enough people to
Ron Paul's parallel convention and hope and pray that the delagates see the large crowds for Ron and decide to vote for him. That and DVDs for delagates are our only prayer.
Semper Fortis
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
Im will vote Ron Paul or not
Im will vote Ron Paul or not at all.
And for those that would say then I have no right to bitch. I say, the hell I dont. Im an American, Ill do whatever bitching I want to do.
I too will write in Ron Paul-------and bitch about the neocons
HYDROMAN
"Since 1789 the only government on Earth that has the power to crush the American people`s liberties across the board is the government of the United States"
Robert Higgs
Basically, 2008 = we're
Basically, 2008 = we're fu*ked. If Ron Paul or Baldwin aren't on the ballot I won't even bother voting. The powers that be could give two sh*ts about any kind of message you would try to send them voting for barr or socialists like Nader etc. They aren't in this to try and help you or listen to you. They are in this for power and money and that's it. Too bad the American populace is too stupid to vote for a candidate that *won't win*.
Baldwin
is on the ballot where I am -
voting for principle and the freedom message!
nuff said .....
That's good but what I'm
That's good but what I'm saying here is that he's not on enough ballots to win the election (yet). If you support him then you should be pouring all your efforts into this. Nothing else matters for your guy right now. Literally nothing. He's dead in the water unless he can get on enough ballots to make a majority of electoral votes possible. Right now only Barr and Nader have managed that. A vote for a candidate who can't win is an empty gesture, although there is something to be said for gestures, as long as you realize that's all it is.
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Liberty for Dummies
Even if he got on all 50
Even if he got on all 50 state ballots, he wouldn't win. He is currently on 39 ballots, including offical Write-In status per the Constitution Party website. Bob Barr is currently on 38 ballots, also including official Write-In status, per the LP website.
Unless Ron Paul is on the ballot, I will vote for Chuck Baldwin. As John Quincy Adams said, "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." I cannot in good conscience vote for Barr or Nader, and even less so for Obama and McCain.
Write-ins aren't counted as
Write-ins aren't counted as "ballot access" by Ballot Access News (they count Nader low because he's on all kinds of weird party tickets all over the country, but not specifically as an independent).
You're right, none of them will win. But I'd rather vote for someone who theoretically could win than someone who absolutely will not no matter how many people supported him. I guess that's just me.
I agree with voting for principle. That's why I can't vote for Baldwin. So that leaves me in a tight spot, where the principled position becomes: "How do I prevent as much damage to America as I can?" I have no delusions about actually helping America in this election. But I'd like to mitigate the damage that's going to be done, if at all possible. If "voting for principle" meant "voting for a clone of yourself," I'd never vote. Every vote is a compromise.
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Liberty for Dummies
OK, here's the tally
OK, here's the tally according to the highly trustworthy Wikipedia (that's a joke, but I doubt they're wrong on this or somebody would catch it):
Possible electoral votes they can get:
McCain and Obama = 100% (obviously)
Barr = 70.4%
Nader = 54.1%
McKinney = 49.6%
Baldwin = 37.0%
Nobody else is even worth mentioning; all less than 20%.
So Barr and Nader are viable candidates, McKinney might become viable, and Baldwin is a long shot for viability let alone victory.
That means Barr is your man unless you live in a state not listed as on the ballot here, or unless you want to support an extreme left candidate and/or give McCain a nudge.
Ugh! This truly sucks. *pulls hair out by the roots*
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Liberty for Dummies
Our Choices
Heres all our choices: (and my view of them, you dont have to agree, its just my opinion :) )
-Gene Amondson - Prohibition Party (NO!)
-Chuck Baldwin - Constution Party (no)
-Bob Barrr - Libertarian Party (no)
-Roger Calero - Socialist Workers Party (don't know his platform, but he was born in Nicauragua)
-Charles Jay - Boston Tea Party (maybe, off-shoot of the LP)
-Alan Keyes - Indepedent (no)
-Gloria La Riva - Socialism and Liberation Party (maybe, very firm stances against war, if thats your issue)
- John McCain - RINO Party
-Frank McEnulty - New American Independent (Actually, a very good platform, check him out)
-Cynthia McKinney - Green Party (maybe)
-Brian Moore - Socialism (?)
-Ralph Nader - Independent (maybe)
-Barack Obama - Democrat
Yes but my point is that all
Yes but my point is that all of those are empty gestures except McCain, Obama, Nader and Barr. Because those are the only ones who are on enough ballots to theoretically win. And maybe McKinney, not sure yet, I gotta go look this up.
So if you'd support the GP over the LP then you're supporting some pretty extreme leftist economic stuff. And those votes will come from Obama so you're helping McCain. I realize how distressing it is to even consider that one or the other of those two is more worthy of hurting, but I'd have to say it's McCain just based on the "100 years" comment. In that case you'd want to pull votes from him by voting Barr.
Like I said below, I feel sick about this whole election.
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Liberty for Dummies
You keep repeating that Barr
You keep repeating that Barr is on enough ballots to win, but Baldwin isn't. I just looked it up on the CP and LP websites....
Barr is on 38 ballots, including ones where you will have to write him in (some states won't count write-in votes, unless the person has turned in the right forms/signatures to be an Offical Write-in candidate).
Baldwin is on 39 ballots, also including Write-In states.
See my above post. Counting
See my above post. Counting write-ins as "ballot access" is a misinterpretation of the facts.
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Liberty for Dummies
Probably Barr...
I follow the Campaign for Liberty closely, and I am still considering a trip to Minnesota. I still look for news pertaining to Ron. I (now) look for all kinds of economic, and international news. I am researching all of my voting options, and not truly loving any of them.
That being said, I have donated to the Barr campaign, will probably do so again, and will vote for him in November. Out all of my choices this seems the best option so far. So I am running with it... for now. I like Barr. I like what he says, and how he articulates himself in a manner that is somewhat "familiar" to most people. Meetup group activities, and boots on the ground campaigning is something yet to be seen. However, if he stays on message (which he has been doing) I would love to see him in the debates.
If you haven't; sign up for the campaign email updates.
Here: http://www.bobbarr2008.com/join/
Why not sign up for Baldwin, Nader, McKinney and the rest of them as well:
Balwin: https://secure.giftwrapplus.org/b08/eu/subscribe/
Nader: http://www.votenader.org/index.html
McKinney: http://www2.runcynthiarun.org/
(the others you'll have to look up; if you really want to)
- kipload
idealogs.blogspot.com
Yeah, it does seem like Barr
Yeah, it does seem like Barr is the least-worst option at this point. I hear you on his message; it sounds good, but my problem is that it's a whole new thing for him. I can get behind someone who's genuinely seen the light and changed, since I went through that same process, but there's something about him that makes me uneasy. I just don't trust the guy.
I don't want to rain on the Baldwin supporters' parade, but I believe even McKinney has a better shot at the moment, as far as access. I need to check the latest tally. Anyway I can't vote GP because they're quite radically left-wing on the economy. So is Nader, for that matter.
There's always the "spoiled ballot" option, but that's basically the same as a write-in.
Ugh. It really does come down to Barr. This is why I was so stubbornly sticking with the Ron Paul write-in plan: the other options are either equally pointless gestures or radical leftists.
I guess another thing to consider is which Republicrat it will help. They're both terrible, but if you put a gun to my head I'd rather have Obama than McCain, simply because he's slightly less likely to keep us in Iraq for 100 years. So I'd want to avoid Nader or McKinney in that case, because they'd help McCain, whereas Barr or Baldwin are more likely to help Obama, and Baldwin is an empty gesture so it might as well be Barr.
*sigh* I'm so depressed that we didn't come through for Dr. Paul. I still feel sick about it.
I'll quit rambling now... :-(
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Liberty for Dummies
I think we are all upset about holding our noses and pulling
the lever this November.
My First Choice Ron Paul, then the next best choice (imho) Baldwin.
Sigh...what is WRONG with the American People!!! Why are the good ones polling so low...(rant) Oh yeah, polls are manipulated...duh.
R3VOLution