Fires, Not Explosives----The Final Word on 7 WTC

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Any discussion beyond this report might guarantee your being sent to the looney bin. Thanks for playing, and let this really be the final word.

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August 22, 2008
Report Says Fire, Not Explosion, Felled 7 W.T.C.

By ERIC LIPTON
GAITHERSBURG, Md. — Fires in the 47-story office tower at the edge of the World Trade Center site undermined floor beams and critical structural columns, federal investigators concluded Thursday, as they attempted to curb still-rampant speculation that explosives or fuel fires were responsible for the building’s collapse of Sept. 11, 2001.

The long-delayed report by engineers here at the National Institute of Standards and Technology in suburban Washington is intended to solve one of still lingering central questions about the 2001 attacks: Why did 7 World Trade Center fall, if it was not hit by an airplane.

“Heating of floor beams and girders caused a critical support column to fail,” said Shyam Sunder, the lead investigator. “Video and photographic evidence combined with detailed computer simulations show that neither explosives nor fuel oils played a role in the collapse that brought the building down.”

No one died when 7 World Trade Center fell, nearly seven hours after the twin towers came down. But the collapse of the adjacent tower — once home to branch offices of the Central Intelligence Agency, the Secret Service and to the Giuliani administration’s emergency operations center — is cited in hundreds of books and Internet sites as perhaps the most compelling evidence that an insider secretly planted explosives, intentionally destroying the tower.

It is the first skyscraper in modern times to collapse primarily as a result of a fire.

Mainstream engineers and government officials have rejected the speculation as ridiculous. But national polls have shown that perhaps as many as 1 in 7 Americans believe that the destruction of the World Trade Center towers was an inside job.

The investigators determined that debris from the falling twin towers ignited fires on at least 10 floors at 7 World Trade Center, which was about 400 feet north of where the city’s two tallest buildings once stood. The blazes burned out of control for six hours, as the city fire department, devastated by the collapse of the twin towers, abandoned its efforts to extinguish the fire, and the sprinkler system was incapacitated.

The heat from these fires, the investigators said, caused the beams on the lower floors of the east side of the tower to expand, ultimately causing a girder on the 13th floor to disconnect from a critical interior column that supported the building’s long floor spans. Once the 13th floor gave way, a cascade of floor failures started down to the fifth floor, leading to the overall collapse of the tower.

Skeptics have questioned if explosives were planted at 7 World Trade Center, as well as the twin towers and the Pentagon, as the Bush administration was seeking a justification to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. What started as a small number of such conspiracy theorists has only ballooned into a movement of sorts, largely fed by Internet sites that promote the theories.

“Seven World Trade Center is one of the key points of evidence, one of the smoking guns,” said Richard Gage, a California architect who leader a group called Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. “There have been much hotter, longer lasting and larger fires in skyscrapers that have not fallen down.”

The investigators said that if the city water main had not been broken during the collapse of the twin towers, the sprinkler system would likely have put out the fires at 7 World Trade Center, and the building would not have fallen.

The engineers also examined whether diesel fuel tanks in the building — to power the Giuliani administration’s emergency operations center and other government offices — might have been a fuel source that caused the collapse. The investigators determined, based in part on computer models and videos of smoke coming from the tower, that the heat generated from any fuel-fed fires would not have been enough to cause the collapse.

Dr. Sunder said the investigation pointed to how expansion that can occur in steel as it heats up in a fire needs to be considered to prevent skyscraper collapses.

“Our take-home message today is the reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery,” Dr. Sunder said. “It did not collapse from explosives or fuel oil fires.”

A new, substantially different, 52-story 7 World Trade Center opened in 2006.

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I saw the official interview

the interview was on c-span this week, 8-19-08 I think was the day, any way, I'm sure you could go to there archives and find the video. infowars had a guy ask a question, you should have seen them stamering and stuttering, rushing him through, you know there drill.

Funny,......

I saw that crap on TV.
CNN.
It was unbelievable because they said it was from fires and showed a lame diagram that made no sense from a physical stand point.
Then the guy said it was the first time he has ever seen something like that.
And then he kind of made it seem like it will be the first, and the last time, you will here about the theory being applied to any building being collapsed.
And then to call any other theory a conspiracy because there word is official, and the truth, even though they have no idea or expertise in the matter.
They just want an official story to tell our kids when they go to school and learn all this crap and they become naive and are told not to question authority or what is perceived to be authority.

__________________________________________________________
"The real terrorist's are in this country. They are not planning to blow us up,......... but rather, take our money, our freedom, and our country."

There's a word for this

There's a word for this report.

It's called horseshit.

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Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

:)

:):):)

Funny

How none of the shills ever try to stick around and disprove solid facts.

Soon as they can just explain how the laws of physics did not apply that day and that day alone I will listen. Till then lies like this will not convince even one of the people who have actually bothered to read something like the law of conservation of momentum. Or even something as simple as the melting point of steel.

Heres my sugestion, start joining us in the right immediatly or pay the price for being an accomplice when we start hanging these murders.

The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare

right fucking on man

that right.

Almost half think the NIST report is a joke so far

And almost 60 percent say that the federal government is involved.

I like it :)

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Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !

For those of you who wonder why I am so adamant about this fire

melting the steel issue , I do this in my job , watch this video and watch how long it takes this guy to cut through a 1/2 inch piece of steel plate. Notice the intensity that that the heat has to be concentrated oxyaceltylene torch. Then if you still believe the office fires scenario I have a few bridges I'd like to sell you .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XDHC0_K7sI

then this guy with thicker steel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThL_6jv8Ql0&NR=1

This guy is cutting a 1/2 inch steel plate that is about as wide as the girders in the towers. Note the length of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWBxBrvXkVI

Linear shape charges

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I84-_hcbtyU

thermite in a quiet burn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn-MCCZ3O1M

thermite used to melt steel together ( shhhh very quiet !! )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR6K90cR8Lg&NR=1

what happens when plane crashes into concrete remember steel is much stronger than concrete.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR0f8n10DR4

any questions ? Now lets ask NIST a question or two huh ?

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Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !

sentinel: bump you

There's still a few pockets of automatic thinkerheads that feel more comfortable with official things. We're mopping up the last few puddles now.

Hey. Look at how far this sight has come. You would have gotten flamed to kingdom come a year ago for being a conspiracy theorist.

And you work with the reality of heat and steel everyday.

"Committed To The Eradication Of Poverty Among Patriots"

"GINO" = Government In Name Only

Once you know what it means to get your hands dirty

You learn a clear understanding of the principles of reality. It takes me 5 minutes to cut an I beam with a torch and the buildings fell in a period of time that it would have taken me to just light that torch and adjust the point to maximum air gas ratio. It's not brain surgery.

the point of my flame has to be razor hot to cut steel , If an office desk is on fire I could stand in front of it and roast a marshmellow.

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Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !

My point is this

Some guy who is getting paid by a governement a ton on money to explain a computer simulation to the American public about structural steel has absolutely no idea what it means to work with steel, To work with a building that was designed to withstand a lateral force for years carrying 1000's of tons of weight on it's columns built to code to withstand that weight. The NIST report is a rediculous farce.

Ask yourself a question or two .
question #1: Does your barbeque melt when you close the cover to sear that steak ? didn't think so ! that is hotter than desk fires.

Number 2 : If you drop a concrete floor on a steel beam that is vertical would the steel beam get damaged ? it is vertical and has been designed to carry the weight of thousands of tons. that concerete floor ( concrete is actually very brittle ) If it is suspended I can break it with a sledge hammer very easily. You could too.

what happened to the 3 foot by five foot vertical steel columns that you saw taking forever to cut using a fire as hot and concentrated as oxycetylene ?

One answer = thermate..........period.

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Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !

Does that mean...

...insurance companies for large buildings will increase 20x the initial premiums? No? Well how generous of them...

This report gives nothing.

truth liberate

LMAO

What kind of f*cking complete moron do you have to be to believe this nonsense, I will tell any Idiot to their face that they dont have the brains of a 1st grader if they swallow this tripe.

and If you really believe this trash then your Ignorant ass and those like uneducated simpletons like you are the majority of the problem.

end of story

The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare

Oh Yeah

and Oswald planned it all and carried it out with a single pristine bullet that magicly went through several bones and made a abrupt right turn so it could go thru a seat cushion and Connely and just roll out on a gurney.
Horse feathers.........
I'm rolling my pants leg up around these stories.

Its a good thing, they designed,

the whole damn building around one critical support column, otherwise the building may have fallen on other nearby buildings.

And I suppose that all the fires were around that column.
And the engineers accidentally surrounded that column with combustible material.

Too bad people in the demolition business don't know about the critical support column, it would make their lives so much easier.

When will people WAKE UP?

Heat treaters.......

I think the metallurgists and heat treaters have a good grasp as to why those building should NOT have come down the way they did!!!!!

So your theory along with NIST is building 7...

was built like a stack of Janga blocks and it only took one getting weak to bring the whole building down in its own footprint at the speed of gravity.

And now YOU have decided the discussion is over or YOU will label people as unfit.

Join PyraBang the patriot search engine.

Join PyraBang the peoples search engine.

Here is the most authoritative presentation on the subject.

This power point presentation was put together by an organization of 430 architects, engineers, and PhDs.

I am open minded and willing to hear all sides. I challenge anyone to watch this Power Point presentation and then refute the findings.

http://www.ae911truth.net/ppt_web/slideshow.php

took a while

Razorwind Studios is an official endorser of Ron Paul, and we will live free or die! 14th alternate to MN state!
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to get through the whole thing, but I did! Very convincing, well thought out, lots of great points brought up. I sent this one to my official story believing mom.

I watched half and saved it

But then I was convinced the day I saw it happen. You certainly won't get an arguement from me.

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Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !

so if a 50+ story steel

*edited* meh, videos do have lots of smoke...

Like they said:

Ah, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Insurance rates
On August 22nd, 2008 limelemon says:
Will insurance rates go up, now that a major flaw in steel-framed highrise buildings has been discovered?

When are they going to begin checking ever building in America (at tax payers expense) for this flaw, and fix this problem Ah, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

If voting could really change things,
it would be illegal. Here is hoping for change!

Math Does Not Lie

The official story of the WTC being “brought down by burning jet-fuel” begs for the application of some basic fourth-grade math. We’re lead to believe that most people find math boring, but please bear with this analysis for just a minute. I hope you’ll be rewarded with a whole new way to look at it.

Two Basic Facts: (feel free to verify as you will)

1. Fuel capacity of a Boeing 757 is 11,489 gallons. This equals 1536 Cubic Feet of jet fuel (basically diesel fuel). Anybody who’s ever tried to light a wet campfire with diesel will tell you that this is not the fastest burning stuff in the world.

2. The dimensions of the Twin Towers were 208’ X 208’ X 1362 (1368) Feet tall. This equals a gross volume for each building of 58,925,568 Cubic Feet.

The “raw” ratio: 1 Gallon of fuel for every 5128 Cubic Feet of building volume.

Now, we’ve all seen images of the flames of roaring “jet-fuel explosions” upon impact. Flames that shot to the top of the building in mid air- on the outside of the building - and then gone in just a few seconds.

But let’s ignore that for a minute. Let’s assume that every single drop of jet-fuel that can be carried by a 757 made it to the inside of the building with not an ounce wasted.

The media has been very helpful in providing us with other “facts” to guide our imagination, such as “floods of jet-fuel down the elevator shafts” and “jet-fuel fires all over the building”. We’re lead (and encouraged) to believe that the entire building was doused in fuel, right? Besides, unless the entire building was engulfed in a super-hot and relentless fire, how else could it be plausible for all of those beams and columns in the lower, unaffected floors to become weakened to the point of (simultaneous) collapse? It would have to have been a fire of such intensity and so widely spread that it would be unlike anything, anyone has ever witnessed before. Perhaps that’s why no other steel-frame building in history has ever collapsed. You simply can’t get enough fuel inside to weaken one to the point of failure. But I digress…

So how much jet-fuel was in the building (assuming all of it went in- every drop- and was somehow miraculously distributed equally throughout the building)? .045 cubic inches of fuel per cubic foot of building volume. This equals 1/6th of a teaspoon per cubic foot or a different way to look at it: one cup of fuel for a volume the size of a typical office cubicle- 8 ounces per 320 Cubic Feet. In other words, about the size of a good trash-can fire.

Have you ever wondered why, after that impressive fireball of the initial impact, all you really saw was just some black (cold) smoke and little scattered flames of curtains and office furniture here and there?

It’s because there wasn’t enough fuel.

The single flaw in PNAC: Not disposing of every American with an IQ over 75.

Great post. People who

Great post.

People who might believe that 11,489 gallons of fuel is an awful lot need to also bone up on comparative volumes--for example, a fire engine routinely carries around 10,000 gallons of water in its "booster tank". A small swimming pool like the kind in someone's backyard usually has a capacity of 10,000 to 80,000 gallons. (An Olympic-sized pool, by contrast, usually holds around 375,000 gallons.)

11,000 gallons is not a lot of fuel. It's preposterous to suggest that it could take down a 100+-story building.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

Black smoke,

is indicative of a cool oxygen deprived fire.

I understand your math and point.

However the official report says it was a jack hammer effect. That after the initial beams collapsed, the weight of the top section collapsed downward to the next floor setting off a pancake effect of one floor after another.

Watch the AE911 power point presentation referred to above, it speaks directly to this theory.

Hey man I said it before this is not a place for physical logic

I personally know from doing it that it takes almost 5 minutes to cut through a steel I beam with an acetylene cutting torch that is concentrated to almost 3000 degrees. They try to tell us furniture fires made the building fall in less than 10 seconds which would mean they cut the 1062 steel connection points in about one second each somehow floor per floor all the way from the top down. The crew that managed it twice that day was really impressive. They must have planned that out very precisely. I hate to say I'm impressed but if it had been a demolition done without killing 3000 people It would have been perfect.

That's the only math I need.

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Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !