Why I Don't Support Bob Barr
On May 18, 1999, U.S. Representative Bob Barr (GA-7) issued a press release which attacked the freedom of religion experienced by Wiccan soldiers at Fort Hood TX and at many other armed forces bases. His initial concern appears to have been that the U.S. army was funding a religion that he personally felt should not be allowed within the military.
Barr "tried to amend a defense authorization bill to prohibit the practice of Wicca or any other form of witchcraft at Defense Department facilities. The measure was nixed on procedural grounds." It was not considered germane to the bill to which it was attached. He has promised to try again.
This was followed on June 9, 1999 by a joint statement of 13 conservative Christian groups. In the words of Paul M. Weyrich, president of the Free Congress Association: "Until the Army withdraws all official support and approval from Witchcraft, no Christian should enlist or re-enlist in the Army, and Christian parents should not allow their children to join the Army. An Army that sponsors Satanic rituals is unworthy of representing the United States of America."
Much more information on this can be found at http://www.religioustolerance.org/boy_army.htm
To this date, I have not seen Bob Barr retract his comments.
Once Again
this all or nothing attitude will get us exactly - nothing.
If we get a liberty oriented candidate in the debates, we stand a chance at 2012, absent that, 2016 at best, if even then.
I'd rather it be Ron Paul, but it won't be, so Barr it is then.
You have a right to your principles. And others have a right to support Barr because we want the message out.
We've all spoken our peace, now lets focus on the House and Senate.
This whole campaign seems to be all or nothing
Nobody on here seems to be able to support Dennis Kucinich, Cynthia McKinney, Chuck Hagel, etc because they arent carbon copies of Ron Paul.
Your loss.
If you think that Dennis
If you think that Dennis Kucinich is worthy of our support, then let's just change this site to the Daily Demopublican Status-Quo and be done with it.
Please go shill for your statist heroes on another site.
What? Dennis Kucinich who
What? Dennis Kucinich who Ron Paul has personally praised, a man who has been one THE most vocal opponents of this war, of the Patriot Act, the School of the Americas, American intervention, a new 9/11 investigation, etc etc.......This man isnt worthy of praise?
You are a disturbed and unimportant man. I think you are a mole sent here to destroy dissent.
No, we all have our roles,
No, we all have our roles, and that one is all yours.
I did not say that Dennis is not worthy of PRAISE in limited cases, troll --- I said he is not worthy of our SUPPORT as a consistent pro-liberty candidate.
I was watching PBS
and there was a story on the Iraq war and how the media never questioned any of the evidence for war. I don't remember the title of the story. One group of reporters actually did get it right. I think they were from Knight Ridder or something like that, anyway...One of the reporters said something that made me think of Bob Barr. The reporter said, he made a few phone calls and it didn't take him long to come to the conclusion that the Iraq war propaganda was fabricated.
Since Bobb Barr was a former CIA agent wouldn't he have some insight that the Iraq war was bull? Couldn't he have called a old friend or something?
I just thought that was interesting. Barr was in a position to get inside knowledge and if he really was against big government, he should of voted against the Iraq war.
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http://a180.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/102/l_5ed486af...
See? Now if you doodled
See? Now if you doodled Groucho Marx glasses on him, they could stand in for each other.
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Nice attempt to make Barr
Nice attempt to make Barr look like he said the quote at the end of your blurb. The anti-Barrists are always resulting to dirty tricks.
Did you even read the blurb?
My guess is not, because it specifically says, before that last quote:
"...a joint statement of 13 conservative Christian groups. In the words of Paul M. Weyrich, president of the Free Congress Association..."
Nope, Barr discredits
Nope, Barr discredits himself. There's no need to resort to smearing someone like him. The facts speak for themselves.
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Did you even read the link?
Probably not. You really should.
Barr saw the taped vernal equinox ritual on O'wah-wah on Fox.
He issued a press release 5-13-99 blaming Columbine, of all things, on Fort Hood. Never mind that those do not remotely equate to each other in any sense.
Then on 5-18-99, he issued another press release, this time making the absurd statement that Wicca was not a legitimate religion. He asked, and I quote: "What's next? Will armored divisions be forced to travel with sacrificial animals for Satanic rituals?" Nevermind that Satanists don't sacrifice animals (that's the Santerias that do that, different non-Wiccan group). He couldn't even get the groups or their practices correct!
On 5-29-99 at a town hall meeting, Barr "told the crowd of 120 that Wicca threatened to erode military discipline--a fear not uttered publicly by military commanders--and the First Amendment needed to take a back seat to that concern." He said that he found it reasonable to ban Wicca rituals on a military base while permitting worship by Christians, Jews and Muslims. "We are a nation that believes in God...It's on our money. It's on our documents."
IOW, the Army brass was fine with it, but civilian Barr was not--and it wasn't even his state in the first place! Top it all off with his blatant religious bigotry to boot!
Shoot, even Pat Robertson, as bat**** crazy as he is, actually got onw right for a change when he said this about the whole situation on the 700 Club 7-30-99: "I’m not worried about a little coven of witches running around...Rather than suppress us all, we might give them their freedom."
Barr was so obivously wrong that it's pathetic. He has never apologized for his position. He only repudiated it (but not apologized) after he won the nomination and after LP electors in Massachusetts threatedn to withhold their elector votes and told him why.
At the convention itself, Barr knew exactly what the score was. I know this because when I was parading around with my own "Remember Fort Hood" sign, I walked past him at least a half-dozen times, and he looked directly at the sign, and he read it, because I deliberately stopped so he could read it.
So, yes, he knows what the controversy is about, and a lot of us have long memories.
I am ashamed that he is my party's nominee. I will be glad when this election is over so my party, the LP, can try to move on from this travesty.
I know Ron Paul. I served
I know Ron Paul. I served with Ron Paul. Ron Paul is a friend of mine. Bob Barr, you are no Ron Paul!
Put your hand on the bible
Put your hand on the bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. You dont put your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible.
You are making the Perfect the enemy of the good
I agree, this was stupid. But lets face it, from a practical stand point it is really a non issue. Sure, in theory wiccans deserve to practive their religion in the Army, with the same limitations as all other religions. But how many Wiccans are there ?
So yes, I disagree with Barr on this, but who else will you vote for ? You can talk about Baldwin all you want, but his organization is pitiful (not to mention several important anti liberty stances that will effect huge numbers of people.
Barr is currently our best shot at getting the liberty message out there.
Theory?
The right to practice one's religion is not a matter of theory, ironman77. Even if there were only 5 wiccans in the army, they still deserve the same rights and protections as all the other religions.
And, as Tannim said below, there are a lot more than you think, and a lot more than are on record as such. Many are too afraid of reprisals and persecution from their ranks to make it known by identifying themselves as such.
Sorry, lag caused mutliple posts
Deleted.
Sorry, lag caused mutliple posts
Deleted.
How many?
Try at least a million, possibly more in the general population. Unlike the Christian bureaucracies that want everybody to register their numbers ala Caesar Augustus, the decentralized nature of Wicca means the numbers are not recorded, but it is the fastest-growing religious path out there.
And it is not a "non-issue". If Barr can't get the First Amendment right, then what in the hell is he doing as the nominee of MY party?
And yes, I was in Denver, carrying a sign that reminded everyone of Fort Hood, and I didn't vote for him as a delegate--seven times.
Neither did a close friend, a Wiccan, and honorably serving Army Seargeant who got leave from Tour #3 in Iraq to make the convention...Had Barr had his way, he'd have been dishonorably discharged.
I'm confused -
Are you saying theres a million wiccans in the military?
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I'm a hell of a lot more
I'm a hell of a lot more afraid of someone who voted for the 'patriot act' than a bunch of 'witches'. Bob Barr is a neocon in libertarian clothing.
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Nashville, TN
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Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
It's sort of sad that the
It's sort of sad that the Christophobes had to be confronted with an anti-witchcraft stance before they'd swear off supporting this anti-libertarian charlatan.
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Absolutely not
I had already made my decision not to support Barr long ago, this just took the cake because I take it personally, as a wiccan myself. So if you want to call me sad, you're going to have to come up with something better than that.
you and I both are!
Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
I don't understand the fear-mongering about Wiccans!
Wiccans are a "nature" religion; in the past, they were healers, herbalists. (Many of them still practice the natural healing arts). Yes, the word "witch" does come from Wiccan, but if anything, they "should" be considered white witches. I know several Wiccans, and they are decent, upstanding people. Yes, they believe in a Mother Goddess, but so did most of the Planet until a few thousand years ago, when it was squashed. Actually a Mother and Father God makes the most sense to me--male and female theme is prevalent throughout all of nature! I guess I'd like to say that as some of us are beginning to open our eyes about the realities of politics, perhaps we should (myself included) also be opening our eyes to other areas of life we previously had closed our minds to, or to which we had previously held pre-conceived notions...It's a big beautiful world out there, ready for our exploration...we need never stop learning...
Berwick, Columbia County, Pennsylvania
Ron Paul 2012 - The People's Choice
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I have no personal issues with Wiccan people
My personal religion of choice, a Christian religion, has a very central role for a Heavenly Mother (or actually, more than one heavenly mother) who is every bit as important as the Heavenly Father.
Of course, this is one reason why many so-called evangelical Christians claim my religion is unChristian. LOL.
You can't win when you bring religion into issues of politics. Members of my religion were killed, raped, chased out of four states and into the desert, and all with the tacit approval of governors and presidents, in this very country.
Amazing, isn't it?
RP2012!
That's interesting, Alaskaron...me, too (somewhat)
I consider myself spiritual, not religious...I believe in a Mother and Father Goddess. My personal savior, though not in the traditional sense, is Jesus. (more like a mediator--I also think Budda, Mohammed, etc. are other people's personal "saviors")...
Where I really stray from the mainstream is in the fact that I think God made life (others like us) all over the universe...
Berwick, Columbia County, Pennsylvania
Ron Paul 2012 - The People's Choice
rEVOLution SuperPAC: http://www.revolutionpac.com/
WTP Federal Lawsuit to BAN ALL ELECTRONIC VOTING
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2011-07-26...
What Bob Barr needs....
... is to come clean and tell us that he was wrong in the past, and BE SPECIFIC. When possible, tell us WHY he changed his mind.
He needs to tell us....
He was wrong to vote for the "Patriot" act.
He was wrong to use the power of the State against non-preferred religious groups.
etc.
Has he said this in the past? If so, we haven't heard him. We need to hear it again. We get to decide whether we believe him.
Don't Forget...
He voted for the USA Patriot Act (2001)...yep, you know, that legislation we are all fighting against! This is why I am not supporting Barr....
"We dare not forget that we are heirs of that first revolution" -JFK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iERLtsBIqDg
for this reason alone i
for this reason alone i would not vote for a single supporter for these acts to lead the united states.