Secession Anyone

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http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ketcham10-2008sep1...

From the Los Angeles Times
Opinion
The Americans secessionist streak
In a recent poll, one in five agreed that states have the right to peacefully secede from the Union.
By Christopher Ketcham
September 10, 2008
Sarah Palin's secessionist sympathies sparked minor hysteria last week. Her crime was hailing with round praise the work of the cranky Alaskan Independence Party, which advocates a statewide plebiscite on the secession of Alaska from the Union. "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," the party's late founder, gold miner Joe Vogler, once said. "And I won't be buried under their damn flag."
Palin's husband was a member of the AIP for seven years, and Palin herself has courted the AIP for more than a decade. In an address to the party convention this spring, wearing a ski parka and looking like she was about to decamp into the back country, Palin told the secessionists, "Keep up the good work." Dexter Clark, the white-bearded vice chairman of the AIP, recently explained the motivation behind the "good work": "Through oppression, greed, corruption, incompetence and folly, the [U.S. government] is forfeiting its moral authority."
The thing is, it's not just residents of the Last Frontier who favor breaking away from the Union. According to a Zogby poll conducted in July, more than 20% of U.S. adults -- one in five, about the same number of American Colonists who supported revolt against England in 1775 -- agreed that "any state or region has the right to peaceably secede from the United States and become an independent republic." Some 18% "would support a secessionist effort in my state."
The motivation of these quiet revolutionaries? As many as 44% of those polled agreed that "the United States' system is broken and cannot be fixed by traditional two-party politics and elections."
Put this in stark terms: In a scientific, random sample poll of all Americans, almost half considered the current political system to be in terminal disorder. One-fifth would countenance a dissolution of the bond. This is not a hiccup of opinion. In an October 2006 poll conducted by the Opinion Research Corp. and broadcast on CNN, 71% of Americans agreed that "our system of government is broken and cannot be fixed."
No surprise that the disquiet finds a voice in popular movements. In 2007, a small group of delegates to the second North American secessionist convention -- the first was in Burlington, Vt., in 2006 -- met in Chattanooga, Tenn., to discuss how to foment the collapse and destruction of the United States of America. They came representing 11 rebel groups in 36 states, under banners such as the Republic of Cascadia (wedding Oregon and Washington), Independent California (forging the world's fifth-largest economy), the United Republic of Texas (returning the Lone Star State to its aloneness), the League of the South (uniting the secesh states of old Dixie) and the Second Vermont Republic (separating the Green Mountain State from the U.S.).
The dominant idea among the delegates was that the U.S. experiment had failed; it had become impractical, tragically ridiculous, its leaders and institutions bought off, whored out, unaccountable and unanswerable to the needs of citizens. The United States would have to be reborn smaller -- our loyalties realigned to the needs of localities -- if the American dream was to survive. The convention presented, in effect, a marriage of progressives, paleo-conservatives, libertarians, Christian separatists, Southern nationalists, all united "to put an end to the American empire and reestablish freedom and democracy on the state and regional level," as organizer Kirkpatrick Sale put it.
The delegates settled on a list of principles they called the Chattanooga Declaration. "The deepest questions of human liberty and government facing our time go beyond right and left, and in fact have made the old left-right split meaningless and dead," the declaration read. "The privileges, monopolies and powers that private corporations have won from government threaten ... health, prosperity and liberty, and have already killed American self-government by the people." The answer, it went on, was that the American states "ought to be free and self-governing."
The Declaration of Independence 250 years earlier asked for a similar dedication to self-governance: "[W]henever any form of government becomes destructive ... " wrote Thomas Jefferson, "it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government.... "
It could be argued that secession is the primal American act, as old as the concept of the states themselves. What else did our founders accomplish in 1776 but secession from the tyranny of England? In other words, what the secessionists would argue is that although they are anti-United States, they are most certainly pro-American.
Secession worries the staid opinion gatekeepers of the major media. Sarah Palin's "flirtation" with the AIP should make us "uneasy," as Rosa Brooks warned in these pages. Palin's secessionist ties raise "serious questions," averred the New York Times. A more honest assessment is that the separatism of the Alaskan Independence Party is not so weird or wacky -- or out of keeping with what appears to be a sentiment rooted in that loveliest of American predilections, our crotchety contrarianism.
Christopher Ketcham contributes to GQ, Vanity Fair, Harper's and many online publications. He is writing a book on American secessionism. christopherketcham.com

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Montana's state legislature...

threatened succession if the 2ND AMENDMENT was ruled as not applying to the PERSONAL right to bear arms....

Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips

But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers

There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer

"If any state in the Union

"If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation . . . to a continuance in union . . . I have no hesitation in saying, let us separate." — Jefferson letter to James Madison, 1816

But Who Will Pay my Tariff?

"Honest" Abe Lincoln, Corporate Lawyer and Defender of the "Rights" of White People to Own Slaves.

For all our talk of supporting Dr Paul and being strict Constitutionalists, why don’t we read the Constitution and realize that Dr Paul can be elected President without appearing on a single State ballot?

LXXI BC: Ego sum Spartacus // MDCCCLVII: I am Dred Scott // MCMVL: Ich bin Anne Frank // MMX: Je suis Assange // MMXI: Ik ben von NotHaus

Exactly the cause of the

Exactly the cause of the South's Secession: Tariffs!

“Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The people like those best who fool them most by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles”—Admiral Raphael Semmes.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes

Secession is very much an

Secession is very much an option. Amen to that!! Hoosier copper-head here.

I'm a Southerner...trust me...they will not let you secede

And little informal secession will bring the wraith of the government on you...Waco, Ruby Ridge, Tibet, etc. Monastaries have been systematically wiped out throughout time.

We might want to consider moving. There definately seems to be some migration to Australia/New Zealand. And of course, going to Canada or Mexico (Ventura style).

or

The ol' Star Trek auto-self-destruct sequence...assuming we have the power to take them down with us.

Honestly, I'm not quite there yet. I'm not a chicken hawker.

Messing with Texas

..seems to be perfectly safe. The last group to seriously "Mess with Texas" was the Lincolnian death cult that trampled the Constitution and the prerogatives of the Sovereign States to suspend their association at will.

Since 1865, the slogan "Don't Mess with Texas" has been a sad, pathetic, and empty plea. There is obviously no downside to tyrants messing with Texas or the prerogatives of any other State.

For all our talk of supporting Dr Paul and being strict Constitutionalists, why don’t we read the Constitution and realize that Dr Paul can be elected President without appearing on a single State ballot?

LXXI BC: Ego sum Spartacus // MDCCCLVII: I am Dred Scott // MCMVL: Ich bin Anne Frank // MMX: Je suis Assange // MMXI: Ik ben von NotHaus

No secession needed

just eliminate the Federal governments involvement to a just government according to the 10 amendment.

What about us anti-federalists?

We don't accept federal rule. A federal gov't is a stupid idea. Just look at how it has been choking the flame of liberty...

The Constitutional union was

The Constitutional union was suppose to be just that: a Federation of States, each State in compact with all others to form a union while each remained Sovereign and Independent.

James Madison explained the system, as did other Founders, of the dissolution of the Compact of Union:

"If we consider the federal union as analogous, not to the social compacts among individual men, but to the conventions among individual states, what is the doctrine resulting from these conventions? Clearly, according to the expositors of the law of nations, that breach of any one article, by any one party, leaves all other parties at liberty to consider the whole convention dissolved, unless they choose rather to compel the delinquent party to repair the breach. In some treaties, indeed, it is expressly stipulated that a violation of particular articles shall not have this consequence, and even that particular articles shall remain in force during war, which in general is understood to dissolve all subsisting treaties. But are there exceptions of this sort in the Articles of Confederation? So far from it that there is no even an express stipulation that force shall be used to compel an offending member of the Union to discharge its duty."

In 1788, at the Virginia Convention, John Marshall boldly stated the true nature of our Constitutional Compact:

"We are threatened with the loss of our liberties by possible abuse of power, notwithstanding the maxim that those who give power may take it away. It is the People who give power, and can take it back. Who shall restrain them? They are the masters who give it, and of whom their servants hold it"

James Madison, in the same Virginia Convention of 1788, stated with perhaps the most clear understanding of what the power of the People, through the Convention of the States really was when he said:

"If we be dissatisfied with the national government, if we choose to renounce it, this is an additional safeguard to our defense."

In that same Convention these words were written:

"in behalf of the People of Virginia declare and make known that the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the People of the United States, may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury and oppression, and that every power not granted thereby remains with them and at their will."

“Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The people like those best who fool them most by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles”—Admiral Raphael Semmes.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes

FSP has been pushing this for decades

There will be no secessions, there's no support, and even if there was, does nobody recall what happened the last time a state tried to secede?

Maybe

And maybe a Federal government weakened by economic collapse so that it can't pay its mercenaries can't muster the force to bring a state back into the union by force. And maybe the US armed forces wouldn't fire on US citizens. And maybe we shouldn't give up without a try.

States, self governing

with no federal government, I'm for it. each state could make treaties with each other for trade, commerce, and defense.

No Federal Government!!

Count Mississippi in!