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Ron Paul - lousy politician?

I think the two main characteristics of a good politician are:

1) Being right.
2) Being effective at persuading others that you are right.

Ron Paul has (1) sewn up, no doubt. Not so sure about (2), the 100,000 or so Paul supporters notwithstanding.

Today, for example, Ron Paul obviously failed to make sure Bob Barr understood what this was about and committed to it. It should not have been that hard to explain the gist of what he was doing - convincing as many people as possible that the two party system does not work, and that more people need to vote 3rd party. To the extent that RP is successful with this, it can only help Bob Barr. He has many more potential voters among those currently looking at McCain vs. Obama than he has among the tiny percentage already looking at 3rd party. It's a no-brainer. But he obviously didn't get it, which doesn't say much for him, but it also says something about Ron Paul's political savvy - not so good, sad to say.




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Bob Barr is a neocon shill!

Join PyraBang the peoples search engine.

Join PyraBang the peoples search engine.

Insincere pukes -- Lousy people??

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O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond
BAN ELECTRONIC VOTING!!

Can we at least agree on the idea of getting 3rd parties in the

upcoming debates? If so, please support this:
We need creative ideas which will either get 3rd parties into the national debates or establish a new standard of national debates. Addressing the first point, I suggest we use our grassroots and meetup groups (after they have digested RP's press conference message) to signature petition local areas in all states with the goal to obtain the minimum of 15% requirement for getting their candidate into the national debates. The second point alternative would be to contact the League of Women Voters and ask them to host national debates (all one day prior to the 2 party debates) which would include all parties on enough state ballots to garner an electoral college majority. These are initial ideas. Please add your input so we can develop a solid game plan to run with. (See my original post: This post is a follow up….)

Love (consciousness) is in everything including the void.

"Be wary of those who know the truth. Align yourself with those who are questing for the truth." L. Gardner

Trolls can be spotted easily

as they engage in ad hominem attacks.

People of substance, who are here to make their case, express their honest opinion of the ISSUES, may sometimes disagree. If we all agreed on everything, this site would be one long love fest and we'd grow tired of it quickly. (if not feel like icky socialists who are more into 'vibe' than substance)

I think most, most I say, people on here are intelligent enough to discuss the issues only, though we may sometimes become very passionate about it.

Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, who attempts to tell someone they need to "go away" because of a disagreement on issues, is a troll.

However, someone telling someone to "go away" because all they do is call people names, insult others, yell, kick, scream, and hardly if EVER discuss the issues, are simply beyond tired of asking for decorum and civility.

I think moderators should be re-instated, with the caveat that there is a mechanism to report misuse of that authority to the site owner. Also moderators should be required to notify the poster of their infractions and give the poster the opportunity to edit their words to be more civil. Lack of moderation at all will eventually destroy this forum, as it has many others, if it hasn't already severely damaged it.

Freedom of speech does not include the the right to interject yourself in a uncivil manner into other people's civil discussions. It does not include the right to disrupt the speech of others. Free speech derives from the right of property. If you aren't paying for this site, then you only have the freedom to speak as the site owner allows you. (this is the principle behind newspapers, TV stations, etc.) While the internet significantly lowers the cost of access to 'the press' it doesn't change the property and thus free speech rights of the owners of that medium.

...And now to watch the trolls come out full guns flaming with little of substance to say about this interspersed with plenty of personal attacks, jabs, and name calling.......

Great point

Forum "policemen" who think they do everyone a favor by bludgeoning others with ad hominem attacks swathed in curses are the worst thing to happen to Daily Paul. It's really a shame that we've all been dragged into the mud by a few members without regard for actual free speech. Beating others down is NOT free speech.

"Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, who attempts to tell someone they need to "go away" because of a disagreement on issues, is a troll."

..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

Agreed....

Unfortunately,

there are SOME people on this site who are quick to incorrectly judge and name-call the so-called "trolls" instead of engaging in actual civil debate.

I agree with you , Samadamscw,

that this forum would function significantly better with some sort of moderator(s); I think two or three others here have that power now, but apparently do not use it, or do not use it enough.

And I will admit that I have name-called in the past here, but only when repeatedly pressed by obvious trolls, NEVER over a simple disagreement or opinion.

Attacking trolls and those who attack us here is not "suppressing free speech" --- it's standing up for it.

SATAN is,as he does

Right on, jeffandnichole. Of course that is our opinion .
says

Satan

has the best marketing strategy. He needs it to sell a lie.

Christ has the worst marketing strategy. The truth speaks for itself, it just takes time to sink in.

Of course Ron Paul is a

Of course Ron Paul is a lousy politician!

That is what makes him such a GREAT STATESMAN!

RON PAUL Thanks for being gracious to all

I'm for RON; BOB BARR knew exactly what he was doing, he is not stupid. HE was a lesser candidate that chose not to be intimidated .....
says

Bob Barr clearly had no idea what he was doing

Ron Paul's statements and the statements of Bob Barr and several people apparently from his staff all strongly indicate that he did not understand, much less appreciate how it was to his benefit, the point of yesterday's speech. Bob Barr did not get it and so did not know what he was doing. That of course does not speak well for him or his staff.


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

To AKAK....In response to your words below

---Also addressed to anyone else that feels that he/she needs to police this site by calling out "trolls."----

We here at DP are able to think for ourselves and make our own decisions. I'm not voting for Barr, are you? Let them shill for Barr if they want to. They are looking for votes in the most likely place to go get votes.

3 out of the last 4 posts that I've seen from you are basically summed up in this wonderful post you made:

"Fuck you troll
On September 11th, 2008 akak says:

for the millionth time -- take your Barr/Neocon shilling and shove it up your much-abused ass."

Are you the Bill O'Reilly of DP? "Agree w/ me and stop doing what you're doing or get out."

I guess we have different outlooks on injustice, Boiler20

Granted, I play the troll's game by getting hotheaded and cursing at him, and I should not, but they are malicious and evil, pure and simple, and I will NOT abide them being tolerated or allowed to clog this forum without challenge! You just keep saying "No problem", and I say "Problem!". I question your committment to liberty and this forum if you would grant such saboteurs free reign here.

Funny that you defend those who would subvert liberty, and attack those who would support it.

Your entire post....

makes my point almost perfectly.

"but they are malicious and evil, pure and simple, and I will NOT abide them being tolerated or allowed to clog this forum without challenge!"

Wow, just wow. Also, you don't really challenge them. You just call them trolls and move on.

I question your committment to liberty and this forum if you would grant such saboteurs free reign here.

Then you go on to page 2 of the playbook and do what most name callers do, and that is to either call me a troll, or to question my real intentions.

Funny that you defend those who would subvert liberty, and attack those who would support it.

I don't even know where to begin, but that line is so hypocritical by itself that it doesn't need any "improvements."

You still have not responded to my points, Boilers20

So, who made YOU the policeman of the Daily Paul, I might well ask in return?

Like Minarchist, you seem to not be paying attention here --- one CANNOT reason or debate with trolls! It is not their reason for coming here, although I have tried it in vain numerous times. It is OBVIOUS that they are just here to distract and divide us -- arguing with them is like trying to reason with your dog. No, not even that --- your dog is probably not maliciously trying to subvert your actions.

one CANNOT reason or debate

one CANNOT reason or debate with trolls! It is not their reason for coming here, although I have tried it in vain numerous times.

That may be true in general, but does not seem to apply in these specific cases.

I've seen plenty of people reason and debate civilly with people you've written off as trolls.

Now, are you going to respond to this point civilly and with reason, or are you going to dodge and call me a troll?


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

Wait....You made "points" in the above post?

"one CANNOT reason or debate with trolls!

How do YOU know what a troll is here to do? What if they're just trying to bring up points that maybe swings them in our direction?

....trying to subvert your actions.

I like to think that I have the option of who or what I take as good information. You, on the other hand, are trying to tell me what and who I can listen to. I'd rather investigate a troll's false claim than have someone tell me what or who I can listen to.

So, who made YOU the policeman of the Daily Paul, I might well ask in return?

I attended a ceremony here earlier today where I anointed myself as the Troll Policeman's policeman. You chose not to attend, though you had said that you were. IOW, I'm here to call out the "troll hunters" who don't engage in issues and only engage in personal attacks.

Are you serious?

Boilers, the Defender of the Trolls?

IF you have been aware (which is doubtful, given your blinkered and naive response), all you would have to do is READ the innumerable posts by a handful of trolls ---- RonBarr, preferred, and two or three others --- to see the consistent theme of all their posts. It is quite obvious to many others, and I have seen NOBODY except these same few names, and now you, defend them in any way. You clearly have not been paying atttention, or care.

Again, I question your reasoning and your awareness.

Ignore AKAK, he has nothing better to do than harass people

Ignore AKAK, he has nothing better to do than harass people. I kid you not, his contributions to this site include two things.

1) Shouting down anyone whose opinion he disagrees with.

2) Well, there really isn't a number two.

You waste your time if you actually attempt to engage him in a sensible discussion. Pretend that anything he says isn't there. You'll learn.

..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

Troll, your lies are laughable

Are you sure they didn't pull you out of your mother's ass and not her birth canal?

Correct, although I don't like the term

Troll....(those here for disingenuous reasons---insincere pukes would be more like it)....anyway,
today The Producer implied on an earlier post that all is well again with Kokesh and Barr...I just came from Kokesh's site....that's not what I read...and I think if he again supported Barr, he would say so/post it....soooo, as usual, outright lies, half-truths....you name it....that's what these insincere pukes are here to spread. They're here to stir up trouble, try to scare away new people interested in the Campaign for Liberty, and divide us all.
Geesh, The Producer can't even make up his mind whether he's a Barr paid staffer or not...he is, he isn't....who knows...flip flop flip flop...

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond
BAN ELECTRONIC VOTING!!

present your argument

This is a forum of reason. If you believe those you malign are here to subvert liberty, then present your argument (or provide a link to it if you've already presented it). But please post the ad hominem attacks on a McCain forum where they are to be accepted, naturally.


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

It's about TRUTH

How can you possibly say "lousy politician"? Ron Paul's message is about courage, honor, uncompromising TRUTHS!

Don't be so discouraged or afraid to stand alone for the cause of FREEDOM and LIBERTY. One man, Ron Paul, has inspired the minds of those who would listen. Don't ever forget that!!! Never give up. There is always hope when one man is willing to stand alone in defense of those who would not hear.

Can you read?

How can I say "lousy politician"? I explained it in the opening post. I specified the two characteristics of a good politician, and explained how Ron Paul meets only one (most others are much better at (2) than (1)).

I know he's willing to stand alone, but what's the point if it's not necessary to stand alone? Why alienate those who are willing to stand with you? Why not entice those who are open to it to stand with you? Had he handled it correctly, he could have not only had Barr standing there next to him, but enthusiastically espousing the same message.

That message, yesterday, by the way, was not (directly) about FREEDOM and LIBERTY. Did you even listen to what he said? That's what threw Barr and his campaign. It sounded off message for Ron Paul. What they didn't understand - apparently because Ron Paul did not explain it well enough - is that he's casting a wider net in the hopes of catching a lot more supporters of liberty. The cost of that is others will be caught in the net too, but a vote for Nader or the other socialist is better for liberty than a vote for status quo McBama. That's what Barr and his buds just can't get.


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

I know where you're coming from,

but I think it's going to start sinking in that Barr did the right thing. Give it time. I think you're going to start seeing editorials coming out in favor of Barr's move, and people coming to the realization that Paul was the one that that made the mistake.

This may hurt Barr in the very short run, but that's all.

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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth... You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul http://www.youtube.com/watc

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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth... You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2370864598223573012&...

troll alert.

troll alert.

Thanks....

Troll police. I appreciate looking out for all of us that can't think for ourselves.

The only thing sinking, you asshat troll

is the SS Barr and its cargo of neocon bullshit.

I hope the anchor chain is tightly wrapped around your ankles. But you seem more than willing to go down with the ship in any event. Say "Hello" to the bottom-feeders when you get hit the ocen floor --- I suspect you will be right at home with them.

Again..

This is your contribution to the Daily Paul.