Civil Disobediance discussion time! NO ONE wants to talk about this?
I have been pitching this idea, have worked out a few kinks, please help me flesh this out and get it going or else offer a better plan!
Begin writing letters to editors and posting on forums, blogs and email chains that "We the People" DEMAND redress of grievances, and will REFUSE to circulate any money during the month of November unless these simple demands are met:
1. Every candidate who filed to run for President will be offered the opportunity to have their name appear on every ballot in every state and territory.
2. There will be an open debate, as long and as large a facility as required, including spanning several days if needed, and every candidate who wishes to be on the November ballot will be given full and equal opportunity to ask and answer questions.
3. The enitre election will be cast on paper ballots with absolute transparency of the entire collection and counting process. To return to paper ballots will slow down the results, but it is NOT a problem of developing the technology. Really, That arguement is absurd.
I know some are worried about late fees: Pay your bills in advance. I know my husband nearly blew a cork - one missed payment and the credit card we just maxxed out for the RNC will up our interest rate. We will pay that bill on 10-31. I would pay all of them in advance if I had the money, but I do not. I actually had someone complain about hurting their FICO. I have to ask - will you sacrifice ANYTHING for liberty? If the FICO is more important than fighting for a real election, ummm... I don't even know how to finish that sentence.
Feedback, ideas - c'mon. I don't often try to beat a dead horse, but I think this one may be a Derby winner...
I hate to say it but there
I hate to say it but there just is not enough of us to make a difference doing it. There are to many dumbasses that will continue to spend their money pay their taxes and finance their own demise
I am afraid our last hope is complete financial meltdown to wake folks up however I have my doubts that will do it either when I see the ratio of 1.2 million Ron Paul voters to less then 20 thousand activist willing to do more then vote and donate a few dollars. See my post: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/61160
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End The Fat
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very sad
so many that could just agree to do whatever they could and see what happens. The threat costs nothing, following through costs very little. If we tried, who knows how many would agree to it. Instead, we talk about sit ins and sign waves.
Best of luck. I did my best to bring real debate to my state today. I actaully had a McCain supporter email me this priceless little gem:
"Our Government is best served by citizen participation not citizen disruption."
If you want to use that for your signature line, be sure to credit Kathleen SIms of Idaho.
My reply:
I see our problem quite clearly now, thank you for your reply. I do not seek to serve the government, I seek to serve the people and I seek their Liberty from a tyrannical government who uses their power to propagate lies and engage in fearmongering to quell open discussion.
Are you sure you are a Republican? Do you understand we are a Republic, not a Democracy? The entire premise that we are "spreading Democracy" is very sad, when our Founding Fathers deliberately avoided establishing a Democracy. Why do we feel noble spreading a government form we rejected ourselves for its inherent flaws? (Such as a majority being able to vote itself limitless power.)
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
November 5th is our day
Rather we use it for peaceful civil disobedience or for a C4L money bomb, Nov. 5th was the day that rocked the political establishment. We should keep that day in mind.
I also like May 15th. It was the day that Ron Paul first talked about blowback. It was the day that woke many people up, including myself.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cH3GO-XWGws
"But when you talk about destruction...
dont you know that you can count me OUT"
- John Lennon "Revolution"
Live Free or Diebold
I Think Constitution Day Has Merit
In fact, it may be a good opportunity to also teach our kids the real meaning of a democratic republic not this "representative democracy" they are now being fed in school. Have you seen the new text book? Take a look, well first you'd better educate yourself because you just might "buy" into the crap the schools are teaching our kids, including but not limited to, the World Congress that all "democracy" must follow!!
But, back to our protests, picketing in front of the federal reserve will not hold half as much water as somewhere with a high traffic flow. Remember all the R3volution banners that were made, make banners with the four points and a statement underneath regarding paper ballot voting or something like that, print your own t-shirts with the four points, let's come up with a common theme we all can use. I think we'd be much better off protesting ahead of the elections, then if we must stop circulation the first week of November or up until and including voting day if our demands are not met.
PyraBang for Liberty
PyraBang for Liberty
Sit In
Perhaps we can find out the location of one of the debates and form a sort of human chain around whatever venue it would be held at. We would have to begin at least one day before the event, and to be effective it would require thousands of us. We stay until they cancel the debate, or we are physically removed by police. Either way it would send a great message that the press would be unable to ignore.
Bush just sent ground troops
Bush just sent ground troops in to invade Pakistan!!!!!
Saw it scroll on the bottom while looking at lou dobbs
The flaw I see with a time
The flaw I see with a time limit to our civil disobedience is they know we will eventually begin circulating the money again. It is similar to the gas boycotts . They know the next day or week we will go fill up. We need to be able to replace the system with a new one which will be long term.
Any engineers out there? I've seen posts in the past which talk about vehicles running on something other than gas. Remember, it's gas which keeps the "petrodollar" running. As long as those in charge can keep us dependent on oil and can control how oil is traded they continue to control us.
We need a Liberty Vehicle!
I've just ordered a book about running on alcohol
The author is David Blume.
no one would notice & if they did, it wouldnt change anything.
E Pluribus Unum...
.....Out of many, one.
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if you build it he will come..........Ron Paul 2012.
digg http://digg.com/autos/First_Genuine_Chevy_Volt_to_be_Complet...
I'd pull my money out of the bank on the 5th,
if I actually had any money in the bank.
I haven't had any money in the bank in quite some time.
How about protest/sit in at
How about protest/sit in at all Federal Reserve locations?
http://www.federalreserve.gov/OTHERFRB.HTM
Not exactly civil disobedience but....
Sept 17 is Constitution Day. I plan on walking the government buildings & passing out pocket constitutions & copies of Freedom to Fascism.
I'm alone here in my area but I hope to meet some people to start teaming up with.
Any good ideas for Constitution Day that would cause a stir?
I SAY
Make a run on the banks NOV 5. Demand all you money in CASH.
Take all your mutual funds OUT OF THE MARKET. Not out into your hands, because your tax liabilities. I am just saying remove the money from the market.
IRA all that stuff, just leave it in the accounts but make sure that money is not in stock circulation.
I have no money in the states anymore, and unfortunately cant do any of that.
Freedom may be worth searching for.
Remember, Dont battle the govt with guns(ALONE), Beat them in court, in state legislature, or hire Ron Paul for president.
Freedom may be worth searching for.
Remember, Dont battle the govt with guns(ALONE), Beat them in court, in state legislature, or hire Ron Paul for president.
election day is too late
by then, the winner is declared and the sleeple are happy that their vote was ignored as usual.
It is a good threat for if we do not get a real election, though. Bankj run the fifth, then we don't spend any of it the rest of the month.
TO avoid this, we expect them to begin preparing a proper election with an announcment of their intent to be made on all major media outlets no later than October 1.
Although, I am beginning to think there is no idea that this movement will unify behind. We all said it was the message not the man, but I think it was really the man. If anyone else puts out an idea, it gets run up against whether or not Ron Paul has espoused the idea.
This could actually still give us a Ron Paul presidency, but it looks like it just ain't gonna happen because it was my idea, not Ron Paul's.
Enjoy the McBama show, the media event of the year!
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
Seems to me we need a major
Seems to me we need a major showing, sign waving, something on Election Day as near to as many precincts as possible.
Trust in God, but tie your camel tight.
"Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another,they both march in the same direction." - Paul Proctor
to what end?
What do you hope to achieve by waving signs?
I am still looking for President Paul, or at least whatever president the PEOPLE actually want.
But, I do appreciate that you at least read the post.
This is the second day I have tried to get people to work this idea, I guess I will let it go. I would be thrilled to drop it for a better idea, it really makes me sad to drop it because people will not risk ANYTHING, even a credit score or late fee, to try to grab a little liberty out of the NWO's clutches.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
Great post,
For item #1 - I would say that the cost of getting your name on the ballots would be 10,000 2008 dollars, to keep frivolous candidates out.
For item #2 - Perfect as is.
For Item #3 - fight for a federal law that mandates paper ballots for federal elections. Hopefully, the states would follow suit.
"The Constitution was written not to regulate you in any way, the purpose of the Constitution was to restrain the government." - Ron Paul.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khDgz0rODZU&feature=g-upl
thanks so much
at least one person gave it real consideration - I do appreciate that!
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
How about everyone who can
How about everyone who can afford it... take 3 or 4 months off? That would certainly slow down things... like a national sit-down protest.
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"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
would there be enough people to make an impact?
I know we could have done that a year ago, but now that recession that isn't makes it out of the question. Most Patriots I know are in similar or worse circumstances than we are.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
Ghandi
I've always liked Ghandi's style of civil disobedience. Just start breaking unjust laws. Call a press conference and burn 1040s or social security cards or something. I also like the way he just went off and made salt even though it was illegal.
What are some things we could easily make or do ourselves but are prevented by law from making/doing? Obviously selling anything without paying taxes is illegal, but tax protesters aren't ever taken seriously. Maybe we could all just walk/bike to work. If enough people started doing it, it would really start to cut into gas taxes and possibly make it impossible to drive anywhere.
-===CC=-
individual vs group actions
We ought to be waging a very personal libertarian war already, We have tried to cut all "grid" ties, and continue to seek ways to get off the grids we are still on. However, if we want to make a statement of our "movement" we need a coordinated effort. And, if we don't want any martyrs (I prefer we all remain unbagged...) we need the strength of numbers.
And I have to laugh at your question about what can we "make or do ourselves but are prevented by law..." We could all grow pot, but I think the movement would get nothing else accomplished after the first harvest - lol!
OK, seriously, do you object to refusing to circulate money for a month for some reason? It is the very weapon that makes my idea worth considering, I believe. We have SO little that they care about. We can march, blog, rant and rave, but as long as we spend money, they are happy. Hell, they don't care if we buy signs that say "Buck Fush" as long as we circulate those FRNs.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
>OK, seriously, do you
>OK, seriously, do you object to refusing to circulate money for a month for some reason?
Not really. I just can't participate. If I don't circulate money, I can't buy food, my electricity gets cut off, and I get kicked out of my apartment. Even if I could afford to pay some bills before hand, I couldn't pay my rent before it's due. Landlords are opposed to that for some reason. If I skip credit card payments, my interest rate will shoot up to 30%. Credit card companies will not let you pay a bill before it's due.
I'm not even sure this will help. You will still have to pay your bills at some point, unless you want to completely destroy your credit, and not pay people/companies what you legitimately owe them. Maybe we could say we won't spend money on non-essentials. You would still need to get your money out of the banks though, or they'll just use it to create more money and loan it out to people who will spend it.
Maybe a better idea would be to go to a gold / silver standard and refuse to make payments in federal reserve notes.
did you read the post? I answered several of those objections
but I will reiterate. Credit card companies I already conceded are a problem, but you can pay them early as long as you make it clear it is your payment you are sending, not an "additional" payment from the prior month. No one cuts off utilities for being one month behind, in November you actually have legal protection in many states. If you can't do it with every bill, you can't, But will you risk anything, a little FICO hit, a late fee or two, the scorn of a bill collector?
I have already cut my grocery shopping to once a month, that is not hard. I eat much healthier foods and spend far less than I used to. I will almost certainly have to buy a bit of gas, but we do have a veggie oil rig we will run if it is warm enough. The whole idea is to be creative and do ALL that you CAN.
So many people have risked so much, it is really disappointing when I hear excuses like yours.
If ten percent of Americans actually THREATENED to stop circulating money, we could probably get the NWO to the bargaining table and never even have to follow through on the threat.
However, it is becoming plain that the cats want a herder to complain about being a poor leader far more than they want to act like liberty minded individuals.
I give! Uncle! Whatever.
Lets all sit around and do nothing but wait for our bus to FEMA camp instead. I can hardly wait for the elections! It is neck and neck between McBama and O'Cain! God bless America, home of the brave and land of the free!
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
follow the founding father's example....
x
2Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
which example?
They were a resourceful bunch, they did the Boston Tea Party, the midnight ride of Paul Revere, and they shot people. Among many other things.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
i would like to see those of the press conference, us,do this...
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/print_friendly.html?page=declaration_transcript_content.html&title=NARA%20|%20The%20Declaration%20of%20Independence%3A%20A%20Transcription
they...Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, & the others...& us...
2Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Start Here...
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/magna_ca...
2Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Do you have specific ideas in mind?
It seems like a very nice cruise through history, and indeed those were great men bantying about great ideas.
We have a problem facing us, we are about to get another election stolen. The candidates have been pre-selected by the media, and now we will be treated to a dog and pony show. After we "vote" for president, a few dozen electors will go pick our president. The meida will be sure to keep the appearance that the "popular" candidate won. I want to STOP the charade, I want to STOP it before THIS election. I have given specific steps to try to make that happen.
I agree the suggested reading is quite inspirational, but inspiration must lead to action, or it what use is it?
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.