If I get drafted,...I will / I am going to _______(you fill in the blank)
Submitted by shutdownthefed on Fri, 09/12/2008 - 21:58
burn my draft notice and use it to light a spliff on the white house lawn.
now you....
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I have
two sons. I don't know what they will do. If I could help them leave the country I would. The military is nothing but a strong arm for the mob (Monetary Overlord Bankers). Peace
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
Wouldn't even wait until that draft notice arrived...
as it may well be considered "notification" and could place you in another classification if you flee To assure your freedom and something quality to "light up" and pass around.
Discover Costa Rica
Discover Costa Rica
Save the young men.
As a 45 year old, I believe that if a draft is ever instituted again it should first enlist men who are 45 years old or older. This way we protect those who have not been able to raise a family yet.
grant
I think you know the answer...
Discover Costa Rica
Discover Costa Rica
Depends on the circumstances
Depends on the circumstances of the war.
Drafted into a pointless, Iraq-like quagmire? I'd dodge it or go to prison.
Drafted into a WWII-like situation? I'd probably go or work in the factories like my grandmothers did to support the war effort.
Get pregnant! Although since I'm "fixed"
this could be a problem :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
- John F. Kennedy
Mathew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
i won't fight for them ...
i won't fight for them ...
they are not upholding their constitutional oath ... and i will
the constitution i pledge myself to is more important than their desires and wims
end of story. do with what you will ... as for me .. give me liberty or give me death!
Universal Soldier
I am a veteran of the first Gulf War, and I am now thinking of applying for conscientious objector status as a matter of principle. War is a racket. Stand firm in your principles and you will regret nothing. I also have two children; I love them more than the state. The state will enslave them only over my dead body.
Mises said that it is a "war like spirit" among the people that is ultimately responsible for national aggression. We must wake the people up. We must spread the message of liberty and non-intervention. This is our cause and our responsibility.
_______________________________________________________
"Let the good heart speak words of true peace, not inciting others to further war." -- B.I.S.
If I get drafted, I am going
If I get drafted, I am going to be very surprised....since I have already been drafted once by THE STATE.
“Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The people like those best who fool them most by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles”—Admiral Raphael Semmes.
http://militantjeffersonian.com
"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes
I'm gonna sing Alices Restaurant in five part harmony!
I Came to talk about the draft.
They got a building down New York City, it's called Whitehall Street,
where you walk in, you get injected, inspected, detected, infected,
neglected and selected. I went down to get my physical examination one
day, and I walked in, I sat down, got good and drunk the night before, so
I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning. `Cause I wanted to
look like the all-American kid from New York City, man I wanted, I wanted
to feel like the all-, I wanted to be the all American kid from New York,
and I walked in, sat down, I was hung down, brung down, hung up, and all
kinds o' mean nasty ugly things. And I waked in and sat down and they gave
me a piece of paper, said, "Kid, see the phsychiatrist, room 604."
And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and
he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."
Didn't feel too good about it.
Proceeded on down the hall gettin more injections, inspections,
detections, neglections and all kinds of stuff that they was doin' to me
at the thing there, and I was there for two hours, three hours, four
hours, I was there for a long time going through all kinds of mean nasty
ugly things and I was just having a tough time there, and they was
inspecting, injecting every single part of me, and they was leaving no
part untouched. Proceeded through, and when I finally came to the see the
last man, I walked in, walked in sat down after a whole big thing there,
and I walked up and said, "What do you want?" He said, "Kid, we only got
one question. Have you ever been arrested?"
And I proceeded to tell him the story of the Alice's Restaurant Massacre,
with full orchestration and five part harmony and stuff like that and all
the phenome... - and he stopped me right there and said, "Kid, did you ever
go to court?"
And I proceeded to tell him the story of the twenty seven eight-by-ten
colour glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and the paragraph on
the back of each one, and he stopped me right there and said, "Kid, I want
you to go and sit down on that bench that says Group W .... NOW kid!!"
And I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is, Group W's
where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after
committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean nasty ugly
looking people on the bench there. Mother rapers. Father stabbers. Father
rapers! Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me! And
they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the
bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest
father raper of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean 'n' ugly
'n' nasty 'n' horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me
and said, "Kid, whad'ya get?" I said, "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay
$50 and pick up the garbage." He said, "What were you arrested for, kid?"
And I said, "Littering." And they all moved away from me on the bench
there, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I
said, "And creating a nuisance." And they all came back, shook my hand,
and we had a great time on the bench, talkin about crime, mother stabbing,
father raping, all kinds of groovy things that we was talking about on the
bench. And everything was fine, we was smoking cigarettes and all kinds of
things, until the Sargeant came over, had some paper in his hand, held it
up and said.
"Kids, this-piece-of-paper's-got-47-words-37-sentences-58-words-we-wanna-
know-details-of-the-crime-time-of-the-crime-and-any-other-kind-of-thing-
you-gotta-say-pertaining-to-and-about-the-crime-I-want-to-know-arresting-
officer's-name-and-any-other-kind-of-thing-you-gotta-say", and talked for
forty-five minutes and nobody understood a word that he said, but we had
fun filling out the forms and playing with the pencils on the bench there,
and I filled out the massacre with the four part harmony, and wrote it
down there, just like it was, and everything was fine and I put down the
pencil, and I turned over the piece of paper, and there, there on the
other side, in the middle of the other side, away from everything else on
the other side, in parentheses, capital letters, quotated, read the
following words:
("KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?")
I went over to the sargent, said, "Sargeant, you got a lot a damn gall to
ask me if I've rehabilitated myself, I mean, I mean, I mean that just, I'm
sittin' here on the bench, I mean I'm sittin here on the Group W bench
'cause you want to know if I'm moral enough join the army, burn women,
kids, houses and villages after bein' a litterbug." He looked at me and
said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send you fingerprints
off to Washington."
And friends, somewhere in Washington enshrined in some little folder, is a
study in black and white of my fingerprints. And the only reason I'm
singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar
situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a
situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into
the shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get
anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if
one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and
they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.
And that's what it is , the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement, and
all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the
guitar.
With feeling. So we'll wait for it to come around on the guitar, here and
sing it when it does. Here it comes.
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant
Walk right in it's around the back
Just a half a mile from the railroad track
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant
That was horrible. If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.
I've been singing this song now for twenty five minutes. I could sing it
for another twenty five minutes. I'm not proud... or tired.
So we'll wait till it comes around again, and this time with four part
harmony and feeling.
We're just waitin' for it to come around is what we're doing.
All right now.
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant
Excepting Alice
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant
Walk right in it's around the back
Just a half a mile from the railroad track
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant
Da da da da da da da dum
At Alice's Restaurant
when your at the recruit processing station
refuse to take the oath
I don't know, meek...
...but that just might result in an automatic promotion to General.
I wont fight period ... If
I wont fight period ... If enough people like me would sit down and say fuck you Government ... The rich would shit on themselves. As a matter of fact no poor man in history ever started a war it was always the rich people. So I'll not kill other peasants so fat rich pukes can sit around stealing out of the public coffers.
You can bet on this
I'll do exactly what Romney's boys do. You know they aren't going, but it will be for different reasons altogether.
There are six ways to respond.
If the US or EU decides to institute a draft there are six ways to go. If the draft comes, I'll have a heart-to-heart with my loved ones and choose between options one, two and three.
1. Deliberately and publicly break the law with regard to the draft.
From a political standpoint, this is the best thing to do. From a personal standpoint it could land you in a whole heap of ****.
2. Emigrate.
Is Canada or Mexico still an option for US citizens? If my country (Britain) instituted a draft and the rest of the EU didn't, I could move to one of the British ex-pat communities in France or Spain and try my luck there.
3. Know your rights.
As already pointed out, don't "step forward" and remember that civilians don't take orders from military personnel.
4. Feign gayness or insanity.
This doesn't exactly further the cause of liberty or peace, but it might work.
5. Become a conscientious objector.
My one surviving grandfather "turned conshi" to avoid joining the British Army in World War Two. He regrets it. He didn't advance the cause of peace. He didn't fight the Nazis. He just saved his own skin.
6. Deliberately injure yourself.
If it doesn't work, you'll hate yourself. If it does work, you'll hate yourself. Either way, please don't.
-"Ron Paul cured me of my predilection for Che Guevara T shirts."
Sorry bud, If your not showing up and still living in the EU
Your screwed... Canada is also turning deserters and concientious objectors back to the usa
Freedom may be worth searching for.
Remember, Dont battle the govt with guns(ALONE), Beat them in court, in state legislature, or hire Ron Paul for president.
Freedom may be worth searching for.
Remember, Dont battle the govt with guns(ALONE), Beat them in court, in state legislature, or hire Ron Paul for president.
Deserters have their own legal issues.
Those issues are far more urgent than those of someone who refuses to enlist in the first place.
Once you enlist, they OWN you. There is a saying in the British Army:
"We Are Your Mum. We Are Your Dad."
In other words, if you enlist, don't think of yourself as a legal adult capable of making your own decisions!
-"Ron Paul cured me of my predilection for Che Guevara T shirts."
You can also (if you REALLY have guts) be a CO...
A "Conscientious Objector" -- i.e. make them expend thousands of dollars and hundred of man-hours to find you, arrest you, prosecute you and lock you up (at least you'll be alive).
If hundreds did this it would be very expensive.
If THOUSANDS of people did it, it would get some attention in the media.
If HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS did it... there would be no one left to "fight" the war, as all of the ones who "willingly" went along with the draft would be needed to guard them...
...and there wouldn't be enough left to send overseas to a war.
Oh, and don't forget to sing "Alice's Restaurant" along the way to jail (and in jail... it's a long song -- almost 19 minutes, but so funny it's worth it!) Oh, and the movie was good too (if you can find it).
The problem with option five on my list...
...is the definition of Conscientious Objector.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector
How many patriotic gun-owning Ron Paul supporters in the US would fit the criteria?
-"Ron Paul cured me of my predilection for Che Guevara T shirts."
There are multiple types (categories) of conscientious objection
The military loves to badger and apply pressure tactics and BS theoreticals to "entrap" people (Iike... "If your little sister was being raped in front of your eyes and you had a gun, would you shoot the rapist?" If you answer "yes" or even "maybe" they will then tell you that your obviously are NOT against violence and are "therefore not a CO" -- most people "cave" at that point, which is the entire goal; even though the "theoretical" question is entirely irrelevant.)
They will try a host of other BS tactics as well -- for example, if you were raised as a Lutheran (or Catholic, or ...well anything other than Amish or Quaker) they will attempt to use THAT as a way of verbally bludgeoning you into "caving" -- by saying that since your church or pastors are not CO's therefore YOU cannot be a CO on religious grounds. (And to the fully indoctrinated military "mind" -- which is essentially a member of a cult -- this makes total sense, as individuals in a cult are not allowed to have or form distinct, individual, or independent thoughts; but rather to "obey" superiors -- so they are literally unable to comprehend that someone COULD form an independent opinion, therefore you must be lying.)
Claiming status as a CO relative to any particular "war" (BTW, Iraq is NOT a "war" in legal terms, as no declaration of war was ever made -- and in a civil court of law, which is where a civilian claiming CO status is adjudicated, that "hair-splitting" IS important)...
Anyway, claiming status as a CO is NEVER an easy way out -- it requires TREMENDOUS "balls" and courage and fortitude. It is MUCH easier to "cave" and simply go along with your orders -- and the military is well aware of that.
Do some digging: http://www.objector.org/
Go rent or buy the "Sir, No Sir" film or the "Soldiers of Conscience" film.
Or dig into the info on the CO's during WWII.
Two very different issues.
1. Serving personnel who are C.O.
2. Civilians who refuse to be inducted into the Military.
I don't claim to offer any meaningful advice to the former. For the later, I still favor other options.
-"Ron Paul cured me of my predilection for Che Guevara T shirts."
As far as I know, Canada is
As far as I know, Canada is no longer an option. I recall reading sometime within the past 6 to 8 months or so about a new US/Canadian treaty which is directly related to this issue.
...
Are you talking about guys who have already enlisted?
The US servicemen who have claimed political asylum in Canada could well be refused. What about those who simply didn't respond to a draft notice?
Then it becomes a simple immigration issue. I think that a white North American sounding guy with a cash-in-hand job could "slip under the radar" quite easily.
-"Ron Paul cured me of my predilection for Che Guevara T shirts."
"Neither slavery nor
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude"...
There's a reason that the 13th Amendment mentions "involuntary servitude" being illegal. And that is not in relation to slavery as slavery was directly mentioned, separately, in that amendment.
There's also a reason that the US is not supposed to be maintaining bases around the world or operating in an aggressive manor.
6 months ago I did somewhat of a survey of family and friends. I didn't pretext with anything, I just said I had a few questions to ask to see what they thought about some things....
I first asked if they would be willing to volunteer right now to help defend Austria if Hungary decided to attack that country? 100% said NO.
I asked if they would be willing to volunteer if Algeria attacked Morocco? 100% NO
Spain vs France... same answer: 100% NO
Ok, then closer to home: What if Guatemala attacked Mexico? Always 100% No.
BUT....
What if the Chinese or Russians had landed on the east coast shores of the United States not far from where we live?
EVERY SINGLE PERSON said YES. They said they would grab whatever weapons they had and they would fight to defend their lands, their families and their country. 100% YES
The government does not need to force citizens to defend themselves or to defend our country. Our founders realized this and that is part of the reason for "involuntary servitude" being illegal as per the 13th Amendment. They knew that we would defend ourselves if we were attacked, so there was no reason for any future government to have the authority to force us to do so.
The reason that they force us via draft is because we are not willing to do these things otherwise. We are especially not willing to go fight senseless illegal wars.
The draft, by the way, is a call to arms and is legal. As far as I know, you must show up. But they cannot FORCE you to join. All you do is go through the draft process and PAY ATTENTION. When they get to the point of asking "all those joining the army to step forward" - do not step forward. Stepping forward is akin to volunteering. Refuse to do so. The commanders there have no authority over you as you are a citizen until you volunteer into their ranks. They will even video tape the volunteering as proof so people cannot later say they did not volunteer and that they were protected from "involuntary servitude" under the 13th Amendment.
As for me, I'm not sure what I will do, if I will serve voluntarily, but I do know that things are not quite the way they would like us to believe.
...
Firstly the 13 amendment
HAD NOTHING to do with our founding fathers. 13 th amendment was passed (ILLEGALY OF COURSE) in the 1860s or 70s. Our founding fathers were in the 1770s.
LINCOLN should not even been president as the i's werent dotted and ts were not crossed and illinois was not a state. Sorry cant provide a reference. It is some obscure legal research paper..
There is a provision that is called posse comitatus SPELLING
Either way when you show up to the military recruitment center and you accept your first order, YOU JUST VOLUNTEERED. They are gonna be sneaky about it.
Freedom may be worth searching for.
Remember, Dont battle the govt with guns(ALONE), Beat them in court, in state legislature, or hire Ron Paul for president.
Freedom may be worth searching for.
Remember, Dont battle the govt with guns(ALONE), Beat them in court, in state legislature, or hire Ron Paul for president.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO MOVE ANYWHERE!
Here's some pretty useful info I came across for anyone in a position to be drafted:
NO DODGING? JUST REFUSE TO VOLUNTEER? HERE’S HOW:
I hope that you will not be offended if I tell you HOW THE "DRAFT" works. I realize that most people THINK they know how it works, but in most cases they are in error! AND, you can avoid the worry when 'College and Canada will not be options [because] in December 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in.'
Being willing (and eager) to fight for one's country when it is truly in danger is one thing. Having the courage to refuse to fight in immoral and/or unconstitutional "wars" is quite another matter, I believe. ICE No need to "dodge" the ball if they're not allowed to hit you with it, if you merely 'take your stand' and refuse to VOLUNTEER!
1. Mr. A receives a "draft notice" and is told to report on a certain date to a certain place where he receives his physical and mental tests...then he is classified with a number indicating whether he is A1(first called)...all the way down to 4F(unfit for duty).
2. Mr.A is told that he is to report for "induction" into the military and to appear at a certain military base for that purpose on a date specified.
3. By "LAW" he must appear there...or a warrant for his arrest will be issued.
4. Assuming he reports as directed he will have another brief physical and tests and then is told to "line up on the yellow line (painted on the floor)
5. A Recruiting Officer will then tell all those "joining the army (or whatever)to take one step forward...(Oh, oh, THOSE WHO DID THIS JUST "VOLUNTEERED!")This is done so that no one can "legally" claim they were "forced into involuntary servitude!" "RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND SWEAR ALLEGIANCE." (almost everyone does!...thinking it must be REQUIRED!): "I, (name) do solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America and will defend it against all enemies foreign and domestic, and will obey the orders of the President and the officers appointed over me, so help me God."
6. Those who "voluntarily" stepped forward CANNOT NOW CLAIM THEY WERE"DRAFTED"...they stepped forward voluntarily and took the Oath voluntarily!
7. Assume Mr. B was smarter than Mr. A and HE DID NOT STEP FORWARD ANDTHEREFORE DID NOT TAKE THE OATH OF ALLEGIANCE. (the recruiter will probably say something like this: "what's the matter with you, don't you know what' step forward' means?" Mr. B responds, "sure I do, but I AM NOTVOLUNTEERING TO SERVE IN THE MILITARY...If you want me you must 'take me' against my will by force!"
8. All of those who "volunteered" will now be excused from the room...and the Mr. B will be cajoled with persuasive arguments...at first...then, when nothing works to change his mind he will be called names and insulted, possibly even assaulted by one or more military people present there as witnesses.
9.IF Mr. B does not weaken, stands his ground, eventually the tormentors will give up and have him arrested on some charge. However, there is NO lawful way that they can MAKE him go into the military...because of the Constitutional prohibition against "involuntary servitude"...which is why NO ONE IS TRULY EVER "DRAFTED" AND MUST BE "SEDUCED " INTO VOLUNTEERING!
D. R. Graham Ret. Sci. Instr. & Ret. Mil. Off'r, Australia
*****************************************************************
Repeat
7. Assume Mr. B was smarter than Mr.A and HE DID NOT STEP FORWARD AND THEREFORE DID NOT TAKE THE OATH OF ALLEGIANCE. (the recruiter will probably say something like this: "what's the matter with you, don't you know what 'step forward' means?" Mr. B responds, "sure I do, but I AM NOT VOLUNTEERING TO SERVE IN THE MILITARY...If you want me you must 'take me' against my will by force!"
8. All of those who "volunteered" will now be excused from the room...and the Mr.B will be cajoled with persuasive arguments...at first...then, when nothing works to change his mind he will be called names and insulted, possibly even assaulted by one or more military people present there as witnesses.
One thing to say at this point is what the cops are coached to say on the witness stand: "Am I ordered?"
If the recruiter says No, then obviously you're OK. If the recruiter says Yes, then "By what authority do you, a military officer, order me, a civilian?" If the recruiter says anything else, repeat the question until you get Yes or No.
If the recruiter says "I order you by the authority of the United States Government" then "Which clause of the Constitution gives you, a military officer, to order me, a civilian?"
Another thing to say is: "Am I free to go?" If the recruiter says Yes, then obviously leave. If the recruiter says No, then "Am I under arrest? Am I your prisoner? Am I kidnapped? If I'm not free, then what am I?" and again, keep repeating the question.
Another thing to say is: "I want an attorney."
Another thing to say is, of course, nothing at all. I think I would go with "Am I free to go?" because if you get to Yes, then you can leave and he would look bad ordering an arrest. If you ask the question three times and don't get a yes or no, then "Well I must be free to go, because I asked you three times and you won't tell me I'm not." Then I would slowly turn around and leave, and if he keeps trying to interact I would just keep repeating the question.
=== Here's an excerpt from a book:
The Army induction officer instructed the draftees to "take one step forward" as their names were called, and said that step would signify their induction into the Army. When reluctant Willie's name was called, he answered present, but did not step forward. After the ceremony, he went home instead of to camp.
When the MP's came for him, he went to court for a writ of habeas corpus to retain his freedom.
"The officer himself," Willie argued, "said the step forward is what would make me a soldier. As I didn't take the step, I'm still a civilian and the Army has no claim on me." Counsel for the Army replied, "
The Army isn't being run by childish games. Willie and a hundred others appeared to be inducted, and he was inducted before the whole group as any fool there could plainly see."
Willie retained his civilian status. The court ruled that the draft law required some definite ceremony to transform a civilian into a soldier. As the Army decided to have one step forward constitute the ceremony, and Willie didn't take the step, he wasn't a soldier.
U.S. Court of Appeals, 1954
Posted By: monk January 16, 2005
source: http://www.franklyspeakingradio.com
http://www.rense.com/general63/nat.htm
Well
Impressive, truly!
I'm 53 so I guess I won't have to grrrrr around with 'em.
New draft legislation has
New draft legislation has been in the works for years: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-393 Universal National Service Act of 2007
During each new Congress for a number of years now it has been resubmitted, but they don't vote on it and it expires.
My guess is that they've been keeping it in the wings of Congress for a time when they do want to use it - then they will vote it in quickly.
ALL people (men & women) aged 18 to 42 will be called upon, based on this legislation.
I have another comment, but will post another message to better organize the different comments.
...
Pack as much as I can in one carry on bag...
Drive to the airport immediately, and catch the first flight towards Austria or Switzerland.
Ill think things out more once I get there.
Melt pennies
Collect pennies and melt them for the raw material.