Immigration problems in Pomona

I'm an organizer of an LA Ron Paul meetup and subsequently get many action oriented emails. This one was on a topic I've seen brought up with in Ron Paul groups and has been bothering me for quite some time, so I wanted to start this discussion with other Ron Paul supporters.

I bring you our thread and hope it may challenge our ways of thinking of who should have natural God given rights.

<<< From: GIJoePatriot
Please read the article below. I just became aware of the immigration problems that are going on in Pomona. This is absolutely unacceptable!!! The Pomona “Habla Coalition” is trying to intimidate the police and the city government citing that the checkpoints are racially oriented and discriminatory. What a joke! I wonder how many illegals are out there driving vehicles without licenses? The checkpoints are a great way to get cars and drivers off the road. It is also a great way to instill the fear factor in the illegal immigrants. (Which is the way it should be)

http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?amp;page=NewsArticle&id=926...

PS. And how dangerous is this organization???? A movement for socialism and liberation??? These people have no right whatsoever to be on American soil. . . . .PERIOD!

<<< From: JustUs1776
You think Nazi-like check points are "great" and encourage a mandate to carry proof of citizenship ID?

I'm not sure why you are emailing me, I'm a Ron Paul/Campaign for Liberty supporter and I don't believe in the neo-con promotion of the Real ID for national security. Ben Franklin once said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety". Our supreme court has ruled over and over that the constitution has guaranteed us the right to travel, which includes highways.
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/travel.htm

Our rights can not be abridged nor regulated therefore, legally, we shouldn't even have to have a drivers license, nor should vehicle code be interpreted to be the same as law. I don't think we should use check points to "instill the fear factor" into anyone.

If you support the philosophy of Ron Paul, we should fight to bring freedom to all, not take rights away.

<<< From: GIJoePatriot
Sorry JustUS1776,

I thought you were interested in saving the country. . . . guess not. And what’s up with your last statement? “we should fight to bring freedom for all”????? Yes, freedom for all who are in this country LEGALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! And as for the Ron Paul philosophy-----he is in favor of securing our borders, fighting anchor babies, and not allowing amnesty for illegal immigrants! I included you in the email because you and the other Ron Paul supporters need to get involved in the battle against illegal immigration. And what’s up with you calling them “Nazi-like checkpoints”???? So you support illegal immigrants driving on our streets and highways with no licenses and no insurance right? that’s what you’re saying Roger. Are you out of your mind??? This city, state, and country has rules and laws that need to be obeyed by everyone. Like it or not, that’s the law. Why should illegls be exempt from the law and I have to obey it???

And that’s great that you’re a supporter of the Campaign for Liberty, so am I. But reality is that Ron Paul himself is not in a position to make radical changes. I was very disappointed that his support was minimal in the primaries. But if we want to take our country back, it has to be one state at a time. And that means focusing on the big problem on a local level----the problem of illegal immigration and the politicians who support it. And I do not support the Real ID bullshit! A state-issued driver’s license and social security card should be all the ID we need. Are you involved with Walter Moore’s campaign for mayor of LA? Are you calling your state reps and senators and telling them not to support amnesty for illegals? Are you involved with the John Birch Society? What are the Ron Paul supporter doing on a daily basis to help this country right now????

<<< From: JustUs1776
If you are interested in "saving the county" (whatever that means), you may do well to acquaint yourself with some of the documents considered to comprise the political founding of said country. Better late than never. One such document is called the "Declaration of Independence". This document is of primary importance because it recognizes that man is born with certain UNALIENABLE rights. These are rights that all humans have, by nature. These rights come from God, and cannot be taken away. These rights are not given to us by any government, or any contract, constitution, document, or political status. These rights were summarized in the Declaration of Independence as the rights to Life, Liberty and the Persuit of Happines. One of many specific rights that you could categorize under rights to Liberty, is the right to Travel abroad (as long as you are not trespassing on the property of another man). There is nothing in the Constitution that professes to give the federal government the ability to restrict this right. Indeed, the 9th amendment is very clear about such notions.

Do you determine what is right or wrong, lawful or unlawful by the basis of what is "legal" or "illegal"? If so, then you must endorse all of the "laws" on federal and state books, such as gun control laws, laws prohibiting use of marijuana, and laws mandating an income tax. You say that you are required to "obey" all of these administrative statutes and codes. If so, then you must have knowingly entered into private contracts with these government agencies in order to receive benefits such as "U.S. Citizenship" and "Homeland Security". If not, then you are simply being oppressed like the rest of us. I guess misery loves company? Seriously, you sound like a bitter, jealous control freak who isn't very concerned about freedom.

I might also mention that I read Ron Paul's book "The Revolution", and not only did he NOT devote a chapter to the immigration issue, I don't recall it even being discussed significantly. Also, I attended the Rally for the Republic and listened to Dr. Paul give an hour long speech, in which IIRC he barely made mention of the issue. However, he made a very big deal about defending, asserting and educating people about our Unalienable rights to Life and Liberty.

Ron Paul's position in the presidential campaign on illegal immigration was somewhat vague, but was essentially based on the idea of further restricting immigration and restricting privileges to immigrants in order to ease the burden that the welfare state places on private individuals and businesses. He almost always qualified such statements by saying that he feels that immigrants are unfairly scapegoated for the poor economic conditions in this country and that under better conditions (i.e. no welfare state, warfare state, income tax, central bank, etc.) we would welcome the immigrants into the country. Even moderated, this is at best a pragmatic argument that holds very little weight.

To illustrate, imagine the following analogy: Crime, Inc. a reputable and widely revered firm, sends a team of its cat burglars to break into your house and steal all of your valuables. They then donate a small portion of the loot to some independent resellers, located on Fence Street, in the "bad" part of town. A rational person might be a bit upset with Crime, Inc. and may even try to bring Crime, Inc. to justice and demand compensation, or perhaps try to figure out how to avoid another such burglary, or maybe even publicly protest the actions of Crime, Inc. to make their shady business practices known. Instead, your solution is to demand that Crime, Inc. continue to rob you and your neighbors so that they can kidnap, imprison, harass, torture, or do whatever to the residents of Fence Street. Apparently, you don't really mind being robbed (or at least seem to consider it a normal part of life), but it really bothers you to see these people on Fence Street receiving a portion of the loot. Seems a bit petty, but whatever. I suppose injustice is OK, as long as everybody suffers equally, right? To spell it out for you, if you don't like the welfare state, then work to abolish the welfare state; don't just quibble over who receives the benefits. DUH! Or maybe you don't oppose the welfare state? Good God.

I think you ought to examine your motivations here. You are clearly advocating that the government dole out special privileges to people based apparently on race, ethnicity, where they were born, etc. I have no moral qualms with you being a racist or xenophobe. In fact I fully support your right to not just speak but ACT upon these feelings. I fully support your right to cultivate HATE, and to act out from that hate! As long as you are not violating anybody's rights, of course. But seriously, you ought to be more honest with yourself.

I swear, your email is so ignorant and incoherent it's nearly impossible to respond to. Enough philosophy, let's get practical. Yes these roadblocks are STRAIGHT OUT OF NAZI GERMANY and violate our individual rights. Must you continue to be a mindless sheep! If you think that they will be used to "catch" illegal immigrants, you are a FOOL! They will be used to harass, intimidate, illegally search, seize and above all steal money from innocent travelers. That's right, can you imagine what a big boost in revenue the government will get from the huge increase in license and insurance citations that they write?! If you believe otherwise, then you do not understand the nature of government. Or maybe you have no experience with the many similar types of roadblocks already in use by organizations such as the Border Patrol. The Border Patrol, like most "law enforcement" today is primarily concerned with unlawfully searching you and your property for "illegal drugs". If only the war on illegal immigration could be as successful as the war on drugs. Oh, wait. Never mind.

By the way, I fully "support illegal immigrants driving on our streets and highways with no licenses and no insurance", just as I support your right to do the same. And what the hell do you mean by "our streets and highways"? Did I enter into some sort of purchase agreement with you? Do you mean that the streets and highways are owned by "the people?" That sounds like communism to me. No thanks. The streets and highways are just stolen property waiting to be liberated (that means "privatized" to people like you).

<<< From: GIJoePatriot
Jesus Christ JustUs1776?!?!?!? You are really out there man! Spoken like a true LIBERAL! I hate to think that all Ron Paul supporters share your ridiculous viewpoints. Let me know when you have your feet firmly planted on the ground. And btw, why don’t you try driving a vehicle with no registration, license, or insurance and see what kind of “freedom” you get. Don’t worry, you will not be included in any more of my emails. I need to network with people who want to take action, instead of defending the rights of illegal immigrants. Maybe you should join LA RAZA or Mecha????

They could use an activist like you.

<<< From: GIJoePatriot
Sorry JustUs1776, couldn’t let you off that easy. Please see the message below from my brother as well. I shared your views with him and he wanted to “chime in”. Please feel free to reply to him if you’d like. Thanks.

<<< From: GIJoePatriot's brother
I don't remember him -

what a tool however, forward this to him...

The Constitution applies to those who are "...subject to the jurisdiction thereof" , clearly illegal immigrants - see Webster's definition of "illegal", are not subject to the jurisdiction thereof. That is why illegals born in the U.S. are still...ILLEGAL! That is why when one of these barbarians slaughters an innocent American in cold blood - the Mexican or other outside governments can forbid the U.S. from applying the death penalty through appealing to the World Court.

Convenient how they enjoy the rights of citizens when it benefits them but claim "immunity" or simply avoid the law when not convenient. Doesn't sound as though they are "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" to me...(see Amendment XIV).

JustUs1776's Sol Alinsky-esk tactics of trying to slander you with the "N" word (nazi) is so week as to not even warrant a response - he must have studied under Obama and the Clintons... - but here it goes...

Does JustUs1776 acknowledge that we have "laws" that benefit the community? Does he live on a rainbow? Does he drive his unicorn-powered, strawberry scented love-mobile to work everyday? Without laws JustUs1776 would be a dead man. Laws and their subsequent enforcement (lack thereof it would seem today), are the only things keeping people like us alive. We don't have it "in us" to live the "Mad Max" philosophy - because that is what you would have w/out laws. Requiring that drivers have a valid I.D. and carry auto insurance are the law. Are they on par with paying income tax? NO! I don't believe in the welfare state or the war state - I don't believe in the Fed. Res. or the income tax. I believe we will, in our lifetimes see the dissolution of these. However, yes the roads DO belong to us, we pay state/local taxes for them. Someone not paying for them and not under the "jurisdiction" (I know that word is driving JustUs1776 nuts by know), is breaking the law. I'm sure ol' JustUs1776 isn't old enough to remember tooling around town in a horse and buggy through muddy, crap filled "streets". Our roads came from somewhere! I'm sure Dr. Paul would acknowledge that some taxes are necessary for things like ROADS!

Well, enough common sense for the day - It's clear JustUs1776 knows precious little about "Nazi Germany - I assume he refers to the "Gestapo", and even less about what is happening in Our Country. As we've seen, enforcement of existing immigration laws are enough to induce "self-deportation". Perhaps JustUs1776 would like to contact the Shaws or the Balognia family and ask their opinion. Or, depending on where JustUs1776 lives, maybe let his wife or kids drive around Hawthorne or Lynwood on a Friday night and see what happens...Somehow I don't think JustUs1776 lives near either of these areas though...

JustUs1776 - get out of your bubble and STOP BEING PART OF THE PROBLEM -