-2 votes

The Anti-Masonic Party

*** EVEN IF YOU'VE READ THIS ORIGINAL POST BEFORE, READ IT AGAIN BECAUSE I'M ALWAYS ADDING TO IT***

Any political party whch might threaten the establishment has historically been infiltrated and destroyed. I hope some of you find the following very interesting. Back in the early 1800's there was an actual political party called "THE ANTI-MASONIC PARTY". Great name. It was actually the first "3rd party" in the US. Yep, back when we were more spiritually aware, people were rightfully concerned about the strange activities of the Masons and did not like the fact that they held so many high positions of power in the gov't, courts etc. even though they only made up a small percentage of the population. PA Rep. Thaddeus Stevens was in this party for awhile before it morphed into the Whig Party.

William Morgan wrote a book about the Masons after he quit and they took him up to Niagara and killed him. This caused a huge uproar, started the anti-masonic movement and people were quitting Masonry in droves. (text removed by poster for sensitivity purposes) Of course, they were eventually infiltrated and neutralized when a Mason became head of the party. The
platform...just...changed.

Check it out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Masonic_Party

We had an Anti-Masonic governor
(original link no good anymore, had to find another...hmmm)
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/179...

Pennsylvania apparently used to have a law that made it illegal for anyone to administer "unlawful oaths" and required societies to disclose full membership. I wonder if that law was ever repealed. (gotta research that one; obviously it's not enforced anymore).

ALL Americans should view from *30 minutes to 50 minutes* of the first part of this series, to learn about the Anti-Masonic movement:

Secret Mysteries of America's Beginnings
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5498106693746597344

No less than an authority than John Quincy Adams, the 6th president (and he was also head of the Anti-Masonic Party for awhile), said the following:

"Freemasonry is deceptive and fraudulent...Its promise is light—its performance is darkness" - John Quincy Adams

“I do conscientiously and sincerely believe that the Order of Freemasonry, if not the greatest, is one of the greatest moral and political evils under which the Union is now laboring.” - John Quincy Adams

LETTERS ON THE MASONIC INSTITUTION.
BY JOHN QUINCY ADAMS
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/lettersonthem...
http://www.texemarrs.com/072001/john_quincy.htm
http://www.michaeljournal.org/nwo1.htm
___________________________

"The Masonic fraternity tramples upon our rights, defeats the administration of justice and bid defiance of every government which it cannot control." - Millard Fillmore

"Masonry is a distinct and independent Government within our own Government, and beyond the control of the laws of the land by means of its secrecy and oaths and regulations which its subjects are bound to obey, under penalty of death." - Massachusetts Legislature, upon investigating the secret society in 1834

"The governments of the present day have to deal not merely with other governments, with emperors, kings and ministers, but also with the secret societies which have everywhere their unscrupulous agents, and can at the last moment upset all the governments' plans." - Benjamin Disraeli

"Elderly men and women, especially in the Northern States, will almost universally remember the murder of William Morgan by Freemasons, and many facts connected with that terrible tragedy. But, as much PAINS HAVE BEEN TAKEN BY FREEMASONS TO RID THE WORLD OF THE BOOKS AND PAMPHLETS AND EVERY VESTIGE OF WRITING RELATING TO THAT SUBJECT, by far the larger number of young people seem to be entirely ignorant that such facts ever occurred." - THE CHARACTER, CLAIMS AND PRACTICAL WORKINGS OF FREEMASONRY 1869, Rev. C. G. FINNEY
http://www.gospeltruth.net/1869Freemasonry/indexfreemasonry.htm

_____________________________

"A holy war will now begin on America and when it is ended America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom, but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects to the Crown... (***text removed by poster for sensitivity purposes*** )....In less than two hundred years the whole nation will be working for Divine World Government. That government that they believe to be divine will be the British Empire...(***text removed by poster for sensitivity purposes*** )...They will all be under the invisible All-seeing Eye of the Grand Architect of Freemasonry." - Servant of Cornwallis, when surrendering to Washington (Recorded in Jonathan Williams "Legions of Satan", 1781, removed from Library of Congress in the 80's or 90's) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcDALSCVsD8

"The very word secrecy is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings." - John F. Kennedy

____________________________

That last quote sums up our predicament today. We all know how everything is controlled in a top-down fashion these days. Personally, I don't think anyone who has taken a bloody oath of allegiance to some other group should be allowed to hold ANY public office what-so-ever. This goes a long way to explain why so many of them do not honor their oath to uphold the Constitution once they get in office and is a big part of the problem we are facing today. They already took a binding oath of allegiance to something else. So ask your Rep./Senator/Congressman/Judge: Have you ever taken an oath for the purpose of entering a Masonic organization?

I call on all good men who are involved in Freemasnonry to quit,
and stop providing a smoke-screen for the evil ones at the top. It's sure looking like those Masonic temples (and related societies) that are in every single small town across the country are the local control nodes for the NWO. Practically everyone in a decision-making position in this country seems to be a member (not to mention how they have what I describe as a 'hive' mentality').

"If good government is to be restored all Masons must be purged from public office". - Rayback

"When psychopaths are involved, conspiracy is no longer just within the realm of possiblity, it becomes PROBABLE.



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Nah

all that stuff is just "symbolic"..just ask OFallon.

Finally you get something right.

They are symbolic. And there is no dagger.

Marriage Oath?

Not really.

Wedding "vows" are inappropriately named because many times they are not vows at all. The vows often simply consist of multiple questions that require a simple ‘yes’ answer (pity the groom who ever says ‘no’). This type of formality, where the questions outline the terms of the agreement, is quite an appropriate template for a simple contract between believers.

For example, "Do you take this woman to be your lawfully wedded wife, to love and to hold, in sickness and in health, from now until death?" This is not "technically" a vow or an oath. The principal ingredient missing is the extra affirmation (the swearing) beyond the simple ‘yes’.

To make the question a bonafide vow or an oath would require that the groom answer with "Yes, I swear that I will…" This type of oath is strictly forbidden by Jesus. To simply reply, "Yes, I will" is not the vow or oath that Jesus condemned.

As far as "religious leaders" taking an oath, you'll have to be more specific than that. I don't know of any in Christianity. Perhaps you consider those Masonic "Grand Worshipful Masters" to be religious leaders.

You can't serve two masters

"Personally, I don't think anyone who has taken a bloody oath of allegiance to some other group should be allowed to hold ANY public office what-so-ever. This goes a long way to explain why so many of them do not honor their oath to uphold the Constitution once they get in office and is a big part of the problem we are facing today."

"No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Luke 16:13

In Christ,
Dave

Take our Presidential Poll, reflecting all 12 Candidates @
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Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

In The LORD Jesus Christ;
Dave

"where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty." 2 Cor. 3:17

http://www.lionandlambministry.com

Can this not also apply to elected leaders?

If they serve the Lord with all their hearts and minds, how can they serve another master, their constituents, to whom they have taken an oath, sworn upon the Bible, no less?

Can you hold two jobs, working for two different bosses?

So what is a master, exactly, I guess, is the question?
- -
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RP2012!

If you only knew...

how much masons agree with your quote from Luke.

Sure

but they serve Mammon.

I've been waiting to use this....

I've been waiting to use this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC-9s8aR_MI

----------------
Ron Paul Supporter Since 1997
`Wise people, even though all laws were abolished, would still lead the same life'- Aristophanes -

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
Rand Paul 2016

Once again you don't know what you are talking about

Where do you come up with this garbage? I do not serve Mammon. In fact, no where is that word found in anything masonic.

No, it's in the Bible

Webster's dictionary defines 'Mammon' as: 1) the false god of riches and avarice. 2) riches regarded as an object of worship and greedy pursuit; wealth as an evil, more or less personified.[1] Winston defines it to mean: 1) wealth, worldly gain; 2) greed for riches; cupidity.[2] Oxford defines: god of wealth, regarded as evil or immoral; 'those who worship mammon' = greedy people who value money too highly"

Now, who has all the money and connections?

The original term

for mammon has been changed. It was originally "law" ie, mammon law. It's meaning was changed to mean gold & silver or wealth. Mammon law is derived from the babylonian talmid. Which is the subverted word of the Most High.

That sounds

about right!

Bankers

Bankers

And most

of the big ones (international) are members of secret societies. Round and round we go in a circle.

And white men

Almost all of them are white men. More of them are white men than masons. Wouldn't it make more sense to start an anti-whiteman movement?

Yes most of the Masons are white

in our society.

We live in the West so there is more information available to us about the history of western secret societies. There are also the Prince Hall Masons, which are the black Masons. The Chinese have the Triads (you'll never guess what their symbol looks like). The Zionists are basically the Jewish Masons. The Muslims have the Assasins, Ismailis, Sufis. Every culture in the world has their secret societies - and yeah, I'd say they're mostly related.

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it." - JFK

Albert Pike...

amitted in his book Morals and Dogma of Free Masonry that the highest levels of the order openly worship "the light bringer" Lucifer. To them, they believe that what most of us believe is "God" to them (a mason) is the devil. And what most of us believe is the devil aka- satan...to a mason that is god. Masons believe since God said don't eat from the tree of knowledge..that that was really the devil, and the serpent was good because he wanted Adam and Eve to be knowledgable. To masons the roles of God and Satan are reversed. Most Masons are what you would call "porch masons" because they arn't in the know of what the highest levels of the order really believe. It's not until you hit the 32 degree until you realize its about worshipping the devil,..but you see, to them its there god. I suggest anyone doubting any of this...seriously, go look into it. Go buy a Masonic book off ebay. My dad has one and there is some really crazy wack shit in there. They believe in some creature called "Jahbulon" no joke go look that up right now. Yes, the founding fathers were free masons,...free masonry was hijacked and turned into what it is today.

watch this - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7652891847477492406

VOTE CHUCK BALDWIN

A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.

Freemasonry Hijacked

"Yes, the founding fathers were free masons,...free masonry was hijacked and turned into what it is today."

Here are the 25 principles of operation practiced by Illuminati. This was conceived and mandated by Johann Adam Weishaupt, a German philosopher, commissioned by the Rothschilds in 1773, who consolidated the Illuminati. Notice #16 on the list:

  1. As men are inclined to evil, rather than good, we must indulge them and influence them to in the direction of their natural inclination.

  2. Preach liberalism.

  3. Use the ideas of freedom to bring about class wars.

  4. Any and all means should be used to reach our goals as all means are justified.

  5. Our rights lie in force.

  6. The power of our resources must remain invisible until the very moment when it has gained the strength that no cunning or force can undermine it.

  7. Advocate a mob psychology to obtain control of the masses.

  8. Use alcohol, drugs, immoral corruption and all forms of vice to systematically corrupt the youth of the nation.

  9. Seize property by any means.

  10. Deal with use of slogans such as "equity", "liberty", "fraternity", putting them into the mouths of the masses for psychological warfare.

  11. When the time is right, use the policies of war and policies related to war as drafted [...in another document by Weishaupt in 1773. These drafts were announced as public policy by Britain and the United States in 1939, 166 years after they were drafted]. War should be directed so that the nations on both sides are placed further in debt and peace conferences conducted so neither combatant obtains territorial rights.

  12. We must use our wealth to have candidates chosen to public office who will be obedient to our demands and will be used as pawns for our goals by our principal men behind the scenes. The advisors will have been bred, reared and trained from childhood to rule the affairs of the world.

  13. Control the press in our interests.

  14. Our agenteurs will come forward after fomenting traumatic situations and appear as the saviors of the masses.

  15. Create industrial depression, financial panic, unemployment, hunger, shortage of food, lack of living quarters and other means, using them to control the masses and then use them [the masses] to eradicate all those who dare to stand in our way.

  16. Infiltrate into the secret Freemasonry to be used for our purposes.

  17. Expound the value of systematic deception. Use high-sounding slogans and phrases, advocating lavish promises without respect as to whether the promises can be kept.

  18. Detail plans for resolution, discuss the art of street fighting necessary to bring the population to its bidding and subjection.

  19. Use their agenteurs as advisors behind the scenes after wars through secret diplomacy to gain control.

  20. Establish large monopolies toward world government control.

  21. Use high taxes and unfair competition to bring about economic ruin by controlling raw materials. Organize education among the workers. Subsidize competitors.

  22. Build up armaments with police and soldiers sufficient to protect our interests, maintaining control of those entities.

  23. Members and leaders of the one world government would be appointed by the director. [Presidential directive 25 allows the president, in the event of conflict or crisis, to transfer his power over to the secretary general on the United Nations].

  24. Infiltrate into all classes and levels of society and government for the purpose of fooling, amusing and corrupting the youth members of society by teaching them theories and principals that we know to be false, but which have the outward appearance of validity.

  25. International laws should be used to destroy civilization and decrease the global population to 500 million people [further study shows that modern Illuminati edicts say that the ideal number of people for the entire globe is 2 billion - a reduction of 4 billion, with the United States population, specifically, decreased to 20 million].

Are these from the

Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion?

No

I learned of it by information I came across pertaining to a federal investigation. The investigation cited evedence, which to date has never been disproved - or even formally disputed, to my knowledge - showing a conection between the CIA, Luciferians and certain child day care centers. I later read about the protocol in a book entitled Pawns in the Game, written by William Guy Carr in 1967.

Good post

You're right on. I have asked several of the pro-Masonic posters here about Baphomet and Ja-Bul-On, and none of them have answered me.

Ask them about Yota, the "hidden master" or the "unseen master"

When inducted into Freemasonry, the inductee must swear in on an array of holy books. The premise is, “we don't care which god you believe in, so long as you believe in a supreme being, who is always watching.” Once a practitioner reaches the higher levels (when it is too late to turn back based on vows on disembowelment) Freemasonry begins to care which god is served, and the practitioner begins to learn who is the real god they serve – the unseen master, or the hidden master – Horus, the all-seeing eye (Satan). Practitioners are also told that there are 33 degrees of the journey, which used to be the case, but later discover that there are now many higher levels. After the 33rd degree “Illumination” begins. By that time practitioners are so indoctrinated that, even if they realize that it is Satan whom they serve, they have come to believe that he is good and that their cause is good and that the reason for all the secrecy around their practice is because most people just won't understand all this “goodness”.

II Corinthians 11:

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

I suggest a prayer for those who are tempted to the wrong path.

Instead of attacking I suggest
A prayer...

I would like to offer a prayer for my enemy who goes by the name of satan; likewise a prayer for lucifer, the angel of darkness, who claims to be an angel of light; and especially for those who follow those masters, whose perverted ways have turned their pupils minds to that of goats.

Father,
On the fourth day, you created the sun, the moon and all the stars that fill the sky. With your authority the sun will be cast down, no longer there to rule the day. But before such action is taken, I beg of you to offer satan a chance to repent,,, I beg of you to soften lucifer's heart and accept his prayer, should he kneel before your authority, to become your forgiven son; and I pray that you would enlighten the hearts of those who have been blinded by a false light.
Your mercy is great for those who freely accept it; and there is no shame for those, who by accord, have become your sheep. They will have courage to stand with the lion and will not be harmed.
http://spaceweather.com/
grant

I agree with praying for your enemy

However, you do understand the difference between attacking and exposing, do you not?

Agree, there is a difference between attacking and exposing.

That all upper level Masons have knowledge of Satan, true. But that all follow the path of Satan, I don't accept that as true and I would be wary of making such a claim.
That all upper level Masons worship Satan, I find that hard to believe. There are probably as many Masons within masonry that deny Satan, as there are people who go to church and do his will.
But what do you suggest we do now that the secret, for which you claim, of Masonry has been exposed?
Are there no lessons to be learned from the knowledge of Masonry? Other than 13 levels within the York rite and 33 levels within the Scottish rite. Seems to me, just a simple way of remembering that 13 inches are exactly 33 centimeters. Very helpful when doing masonry to know the conversion.
Should we throw out the baby with the bath water?
Sure many people worship Satan, as I know many people worship the sun. But just because someone is foolish enough to worship the sun, doesn't mean we have to reject the goodness of the sun intended for us by our creator. Likewise there must be some goodness of Satan; a creature who comes from our Father, created for some purpose, if for nothing else but as an example of what not to do.
grant

You might have noticed

You might have noticed that in my previous post I painted a picture of a diversity of people being welcomed and then subverted over time toward a darker, more unified mindset. So, no, I didn't claim that everyone who practices Freemasonry knowingly and willfully worships Satan, nor did I claim to have revealed some hidden knowledge that just blew the proverbial lid off of Freemasonry.

To be completely fair, I have known several Masons who joined for no other reason than prospect of fellowship and brotherhood, and for wanting to be a part of Freemasonry's outward appearance of light (helping people in general in various ways). Two of those I know are devout, sincere Christians of good character. The others are just generally good guys.

Nonetheless, the bottom line is that Freemasonry has been infiltrated in many key areas and ranks in order that it be manipulated into a practice that is not so much worship of Satan as it is fed and illuminated by Satan. However, those few practitioners at the very highest levels of the pyramid (above the 33rd) are very well aware whom they serve and by whom their 'divine plan' is revealed. Practitioners at the bottom of the pyramid must be subtly and slowly molded toward the mindset of those at the top and the implication there speaks for itself. The higher levels of illumination will never be revealed to those who were carefully observed in the lower ranks and deemed unworthy or disloyal to what goes on in the upper levels, and I've heard two sessions/rulings on that with my own ears. Spin all of that any way you like, but the important factor is that Freemasonry ultimately draws its power and divine plan for the ages from Satan.

If you know much more about Freemasonry that could enlighten and educate me on the subject, I would appreciate your help in answering some questions that nag me:

  • Who do at least some lodges (I've seen four with my own eyes) have the all-seeing eye of Horus the sun-god painted on/carved into the walls?

  • If Freemasonry really is about goodness, wholesomeness, virtue, light, prosperity and helping mankind (descriptions said to me out of the mouths of Freemasons - not my words) then why is so much secrecy demanded and enforced with such dire consequences for things which would be otherwise good and desirable?

  • If Freemasonry really is about helping mankind, and it has the secrets and keys to doing so, how is Freemasonry really helping the big picture of mankind by keeping secret such beneficial knowledge and practice?

  • Given that Freemasonry demands that new inductees believe in a god but does not care nor even ask which god, even if the practitioner is a Satanist, Zionist, radical Islamic or follower of the 'cursed art' that our Founders spoke of, how does Freemasonry weather corruption throughout the ages and still manage to remain such a true, pure, uninfected, genuine, positive, beautiful emblem of light and goodness?

  • Given that history shows that forces of good typically refuse to knowingly associate with forces of darkness whereas forces of darkness will gladly and eagerly walk among the forces of good in sheep's clothing, and if Freemasonry is opposed to forces of darkness, how can it, in good conscious and in the name of anything that is good, knowingly and openly accept me if the god I follow at the time of my induction represents all that is deceitful, damning and dark?

  • What is it about Freemasonry that attracted the attention of a global Satanic practice geared toward world control, and that prompted leaders of that practice to publish historically-documented directives targeting, specifically, Freemasonry for infiltration and subversion?

  • If Freemasonry is in no way associated with dark forces, what do you think General Cornwallis meant when he said the following during his surrender to George Washington...


    ”A holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended, America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects. Your churches will be used to teach the Jewish religion and in less than 200 years, the whole nation of America will be working for divine world government. All religions will be permeated with Judaism without even being noticed by the masses and they will all be under the invisible all-seeing eye of the Grand Architect of Freemasonry.”


    …?

If you can help me understand those issues, I have many more questions.

Religious implications, views and ideology aside, simple logic dictates that there is no need to hide something that is inherently good and honest while something that is inherently bad or deceptive is concealed or twisted into an emblem of light. There is a major difference between being humble (not wanting to blow your own horn or go out of your way to draw attention to your works) and concealing your works at all cost under threat of consequences.

Now you asked the question, “Are there no lessons to be learned from the knowledge of Masonry?” Are there? Are there any that can be taught to a non-Mason without breaking the important system of secrecy? What about these lessons...

  • Shall thy wonders be known in the dark and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

  • Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

  • For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

  • There is no darkness, nor shadow of death, where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves.

  • Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

  • Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

  • And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

…?

Sorry

Sorry it took me so long, but I hadn't read this far down and thus missed this until everyone commented on how brilliant it was to include:

"If Freemasonry is in no way associated with dark forces, what do you think General Cornwallis meant when he said the following during his surrender to George Washington...

”A holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended, America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects. Your churches will be used to teach the Jewish religion and in less than 200 years, the whole nation of America will be working for divine world government. All religions will be permeated with Judaism without even being noticed by the masses and they will all be under the invisible all-seeing eye of the Grand Architect of Freemasonry.”

Why is this interesting? BECAUSE IT'S COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

Cornwallis didn't even ATTEND the surrender, he feigned illness. If you can find me ONE decent source for your malarkey I'll eat my keyboard and mouse. If you can find me TWO I'll throw in my currently worn socks.

So please, make with the source finding, because I've dredged up all the recorded letters between Washington and Cornwallis, and there's none of that in there. Until then you're just repeating garbage from conspiracy pages anonymous and hoping to god that no one calls you out.

You people have no shame, I swear.

Eric Hoffer

Sorriness Duly Noted and Accepted

Don't worry about the response time. The frustration in the post was worth the wait in entertainment value. I've been busy building cabinets in my garage for the last few of days, so I just now saw your ramblings here. Why is there never a good Mason around when I need one?!

I notice you didn't take a stab at the questions of simple logic before foaming at the mouth. Interesting.

Regarding “conspiracy pages”, I assume you're referring to web sites outlining conspiracies. The definition of “conspiracy” is:

  • the act of conspiring.

  • an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.

  • a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.

  • Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.

  • any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

So then Freemasonry is a conspiracy by more than one of these subsets, is it not? That is not intended to make you cry again; I'm just pointing it out since you pulled the "conspiracy" card.

In any case, some of the claims made on many of the "conspiracy pages" spell out what will be dire consequences for the masses if such claims are true, which makes it highly important to either credit or discredit the claims, where possible, on a case-by-case and subject-by-subject basis. When a severe threat is alleged against me, even if the source seems outlandish or unlikely, it is my best interest to determine if there's any truth behind the threat. Contrary to the shallow picture you've attempted to paint of me, I'm not one of the people who stumbles across some doomsday quote on an obscure web site that I know nothing about, freaks out about it and begins sending mass e-mails, flooding web forums and reworking my MySpace page to "warn" people about the amazing revelation I just found. I don't just read the conspiracy claims, take them as word and start proliferating them. I don't blindly speak on any subject whereas you have demonstrated that you will blindly attempt to dismiss and discredit something while presenting nothing but contempt in support of your argument. In contrast to you, I put in as much effort as it takes to actually go out and find reasonable evidence both in support of and against a given "conspiracy" claim. I work to a point where I'm satisfied that there is no more credible pro/con evidence within my power to find and then weigh both the volume and trustworthiness of both sides. At that point I actually have something tangible upon which to take a stance, pro or con, in the interest of my own well being.

Most of my research on what you, for obvious reasons, mockingly refer to as "conspiracy" is based on warnings from history, historical documentation, words of history's more visible and credible figures, books, legal records, old newspaper references, information in libraries and, where religion is concerned, the teachings of any applicable religions - all of it relying as little as possible on an easily-manipulated Internet. In fact, I consciously avoid as much as possible information and resources originating from "conspiracy" based web sites. Where Freemasonry is concerned, I consider what I've personally seen and heard going on in and around the lodges, what I've seen in Freemasonry's own publications and statements made by principal men within Freemasonry's ranks, and how all of those work in conjunction with available and applicable information.

With respect to the Cornwallis quote, I have seen web sites, historical news articles and Congressional record make reference to it, citing the source as a book, "Legions of Satan" (1781) by Jonathan Williams. This would be enough "evidence" for the typical conspiracy theorist, but I really needed to read the book for myself, find out if the author seemed reasonably credible / qualified to speak on the matter and whether or not he actually wrote that which is repeatedly claimed.

The author of the book turns out to be Colonel Jonathan Williams, an artillery officer under Washington's command. As you correctly stated, and according to Williams, Cornwallis (or, "the Earl of Cornwallis," as Williams referred to him) was not present at the official signing of the Articles of Capitulation at Yorktown on October 19, 1781. Thomas Symonds Cornwallis did, however, sign the Articles of Capitulation in the presence of George Washington and Jonathan Williams, in a trench, days prior to the official signing at Yorktown. Further studies, unrelated to the matter at hand, about the author make him seem credible enough to me beyond reasonable doubt with no opposing evidence offered, so at that point I needed to verify or debunk suggestions about whether or not Williams wrote the Cornwallis quote in his book.

Getting my hands on the book proved challenging as it is somewhat rare, having been taken out of bulk publication around 1849 (although later reprints of it were reasonably-accessible until the last 45 years or so). Amazon sells the book, but cannot seem to keep it in stock for more than a week or two at a time before it becomes unavailable again for many months. You'll notice in the comments section of Amazon's page for the book that a there is recent question as to whether or not the book exists because there is no image for it and it has been unavailable for all of this year to date, and even (intermittently) for most of the years prior when I was looking for it. I called Amazon (206-266-2992) to verify whether or not they had ever actually physically possessed and sold the book. Amazon confirmed that, yes, the book exists, they do carry the book and sell out of it quickly when they get shipments of it, but that shipments were "hit and miss" at that time (and that is apparently still the case). Amazon could not confirm at that time when they would get more copies, but that they would definitely be getting more and selling the book again. After waiting for a little over four months for Amazon to get another shipment, I withdrew my order. My search for the book from alternative sources required help from several resources and leads over a two year period, on and off, in and around work, family life and other requirements of my time. That is to say, I did not spend two years solely and fully dedicated to finding the book, but I did dedicate a lot of time and determination to it over that time span. At a point about a year into my search (randomly spot-checking with Amazon along the way) I felt as though I had run up against a wall, chasing a book that I'd never be able to get my hands on. I was poised to give up my search and dismiss the subject, as you so carelessly and blindly do, until a colleague, who was also searching for the book, verified with the Library of Congress that it also once had a copy of the book and that it had been pulled from the card catalog in 1983 (reason declined). With Amazon, the Library of Congress and the historians/librarians with whom I spoke all having confirmed that the book was, in fact, out there somewhere, I was given reasonable cause and determination enough to continue searching. I exhausted a number of fruitless leads, grasping at straws at times, before finally finding some help from a local university professor. I was directed to an antique book collector who was in possession of an 1832 reprint and who was kind enough to allow me to have a look at it. As so many questionable "conspiracy theorists" had cited, the Cornwallis quote is in the book, verbatim.

Additionally, the revelation by Cornwallis is only the tip of the ice berg of things recorded in the book. Williams recorded much about Heim Solomon, "a wealthy Jew who helped finance the American Revolution," who gave financial aid to many patriot leaders, including Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and Randolph, and who was sent to America by the Rothschilds in 1772. I'm sure you know who Solomon is if for no other reason than the New Age Magazine's publication listing him as one of Freemasonry's most famous Freemasons. Coincidentally, none of the loans made by Solomon were ever repaid, which would imply continued indebtedness. The book records much about the subverted Freemasons who were aggressively, before the blood was even dry on the ground, trying to undermine everything which had been earned and won through much bloodshed. There seems to be a lot of interesting first-hand accounts (I only read a few) recorded in the book from a reasonably-credible and plausible source.

That's enough for me. Although it is of no consequence to you, from my personal standpoint, when weighing evidence in the "pros" and "cons" categories with respect to the Cornwallis quote, I have the following:

  1. Pros: I have seen that there is actual, tangible, plausible, physical evidence to support the claims of "conspiracy theorists."

  2. Cons: I have staunch defenders of Freemasonry offering as evidence, in essence, "BAH! You don't know what you're talking about! It's all B.S.! Just makes me sick! You're just another one of those conspiracy nuts! Here, have a look at this Mason-sponsored web site; it will show you how uninformed you are despite anything you've witnessed and that Masons are good! You suck! Blah... blah... blah..."

I'm sure you'll understand if I give more credence to #1.

I prompt you to wake up, take a step back and take another look at the world around you. Does any of it seem to coincide with Cornwallis' warning (whether or not you still believe at this point that it's “complete B.S.”)? Let's see...

We have a country that is supposedly the freest on earth, yet we are still unwitting subjects of the British crown. Anyone who has studied the Federal Reserve knows that it is a hierarchy of private international bankers with British banking dynasties at the top of the food chain. As one of the Rothschilds once said, “Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws.” The first paragraph of footnote #1 of the first Charter of Virginia in 1606 outlines that the king of England granted our forefathers license to settle and colonize America. 26 USC, Sec. 1491, “Imposition of tax” outlines how we pay taxes as tribute to Britain. In light of the financial crisis we have Britain's Gordon Brown repeatedly and relentlessly calling for the “global new order” of governments and banks – purportedly the only solution to the mess we're in. ”A holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended, America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects.” Check.

Our churches are infested with Judaism. As Senator Joseph Raymond McCarthy said in his speech, “George Washington's Surrender”, “...we have seen Masonry infused into every church in America with their veiled Phallic religion. Darby and the Plymouth Brethren brought a Jewish Christianity to America. Masons Rutherford and Russell started Jehovah Witnesses' Judaism which is now worldwide with their message of the divine kingdom. Mason Joseph Smith started Mormon Judaism with its Jewish teaching of millennialism. At the turn of the twentieth century there appeared the Scofield Bible with a Jewish interpretation of the prophecies. With wide use of this 'helpful' aid all the American churches have silently become synagogues. We now have Baptist Jews, Methodist Jews, Church of God Jews, apostate Catholic Jews, and many Protestant Jews throughout America. We are aliens in our own country because of false religion. All are praying for divine deliverance into that 'Divine Government' which Cornwallis knew to be the British Empire.” I can't tell you how many churches I've seen deliver the (paraphrased) message, “The Jews are God's chosen people. No matter what they do to anyone else, and no matter what they believe, we support them unquestioningly.” ”Your churches will be used to teach the Jewish religion and in less than 200 years, the whole nation of America will be working for divine world government. All religions will be permeated with Judaism without even being noticed by the masses and they will all be under the invisible all-seeing eye of the Grand Architect of Freemasonry.” Check.

Whether by design or total coincidence, Cornwallis' words as recorded by Colonel Williams have been fulfilled. The only discrepancy is the time line of 200 years. You tell me which is more believable – design or coincidence.

I urge you to obtain or at least view a copy of Legions of Satan. I cannot tell you where to run out and grab a copy of the book, but if you're truly interested in actually disproving Cornwallis' warning, and if you're willing to put in a little more effort than clicking a few links (meaning get out and do some genuine, actual research and footwork) then you can find the book and see for yourself. But if and when you do, you'll never cop to it because then you'd find yourself with a mouth full of keyboard keys and palm scum. :-) I'm betting that the more likely scenario is that you'll not even try to do anything except continue to sit there, bellowing blindly. It's funny how that works – you sit there repeatedly whining about lack of citation by those in opposition of Freemasonry while your basis for your standpoint and orientation of dispute is apparently nothing more than, “It's total B.S.” Where is the “and here's why” part that should logically follow your disgruntled babbling? I suggest you practice what you preach as the only person you've managed to “call out” is yourself.

Although I do find some of the excessive defensiveness and rhetorical insults in here entertaining when I have the time to engage and foster it, for now I have more important things to accomplish - like finishing my cabinets. :-) As I've presented many reasonable, logical questions that still remain completely without any plausible, researchable answers, I'll abstain from any further interjection in the matter until I see "you people" reciprocating the effort to put up or shut up in your arguments in a tangible and realistic manner.

Before I trail off for a few days, can I borrow your square and compass? I want to give my cabinet doors an exact scale engravement of the all-seeing eye of Horus like they have in the lodges.

Sorriness meant as a degree of your accuracy

Well, there's a few points here off point, and since I'M usually the one faulted for my longwindedness, I'll try and keep it short in my reply.

I've been busy building cabinets in my garage for the last few of days, so I just now saw your ramblings here. Why is there never a good Mason around when I need one?!

Usually Mason refers to the stone variety, but yeah, I know a few good cabinet guys out in Detroit if you need help, none of them Masons unfortunately.

So then Freemasonry is a conspiracy by more than one of these subsets, is it not? That is not intended to make you cry again; I'm just pointing it out since you pulled the "conspiracy" card.

Sure, if we use the first and last definition, but then again, so is my plan to have Waffles for breakfast tomorrow morning, and we don't see people railing about that and making posts on DailyPaul regarding my choice of waffle or whether I'm evil for planning to eat waffles.

I'm going to neglect to respond about your myspace page or your personal habits, as they are in fact yours, and I'll instead just spend my time point out the false arguments.

I've noticed you posted somewhere else as well, I'm going to ignore the one and instead just post to here regarding the points. I'm fairly certain they're the same topic anyways.

I put in as much effort as it takes to actually go out and find reasonable evidence both in support of and against a given "conspiracy" claim.

We'll look at the word "reasonable evidence" later.

This would be enough "evidence" for the typical conspiracy theorist, but I really needed to read the book for myself, find out if the author seemed reasonably credible / qualified to speak on the matter and whether or not he actually wrote that which is repeatedly claimed.

Good show old chap! Absolutely 100% on the "needed to read the book for myself, find out if the author seemed reasonably credible" portion, and 200% on the "and whether or not he actually wrote that which is repeatedly claimed."

Thomas Symonds Cornwallis did, however, sign the Articles of Capitulation in the presence of George Washington and Jonathan Williams, in a trench, days prior to the official signing at Yorktown.

Crap, crap, and more crap. Completely false and I'd BEG you to bring the source for this that completely contradicts the accounts of Dundas and Ross for the British and Laurens for the Americans with Noailles for the French meeting to discuss terms, with Washington later being dissatisfied and sending Cornwallis a letter with revisions.

Why the hell would they have this whole elaborate letter back and forth with notarization of every point if they met in the trenches? There is NO evidence that I've EVER seen of Washington meeting Cornwallis in the trenches to discuss terms, and Cornwallis's disgrace and not wanting to ever see Washington in person is clearly shown through his feigning illness to avoid not only the initial terms discussion, but the signing as well.

AGAIN, no proof of Williams EVER being in attendance of this supposed meeting which there has never been proof for, and which there are mountains of evidence AGAINST.

Whether by design or total coincidence, Cornwallis' words as recorded by Colonel Williams have been fulfilled. The only discrepancy is the time line of 200 years. You tell me which is more believable – design or coincidence.

Design, absolute design, but design performed within the last 30 years. Most likely someone was looking for an argument like this one, and then referenced a little known war colonel and school teacher, who "was at the signing in the trenches with Washington and Cornwallis" knowing that no one would be able to prove a negative, "that the book never existed." I can't prove that there aren't elephants hiding in the strawberry patch, but I can certainly show that it's unlikely.

I'm a collector of rare signed first edition novels, not a great one, but I try, and so far none of the professionals I pay good money for books have been able to find this book databased ANYWHERE. No one has seen it, no one has read it, no one proudly has it in their collection. A book this rare would CERTAINLY attract attention and would be a great item to have for a civil war collection.

Further studies, unrelated to the matter at hand, about the author make him seem credible enough to me beyond reasonable doubt with no opposing evidence offered, so at that point I needed to verify or debunk suggestions about whether or not Williams wrote the Cornwallis quote in his book.

Williams is certainly credible, and he wrote a good number of other thoroughly boring pieces on training student cadets. He hasn't, however to my knowledge, written anything on any topic even SIMILAR to the title of this book. Do you know of any examples to prove me wrong where Williams writes about Jewish takeovers and the Illuminati or the Masons? Any OTHER book that actually exists?

I urge you to obtain or at least view a copy of Legions of Satan. I cannot tell you where to run out and grab a copy of the book, but if you're truly interested in actually disproving Cornwallis' warning, and if you're willing to put in a little more effort than clicking a few links (meaning get out and do some genuine, actual research and footwork) then you can find the book and see for yourself.

Again, I collect signed first editions, and I'd love to find a copy. Abebooks says no luck, Allen Hemlock (who has tracked down a wonderful Hemmingway short story I thought I'd never find signed) has never heard of it, and no rare books collection I've heard of lists ownership. I can't find what doesn't exist Echelon.

Where is the “and here's why” part that should logically follow your disgruntled babbling? I suggest you practice what you preach as the only person you've managed to “call out” is yourself.

I've given plenty of "here's why." Your crack team so far has produced:

The quote is from a book no one can produce and which nothing is available except the quote. Your verbal protestations of, "But I talked to the Library of Congress!!!!" while heart rending, don't constitute proof. They might, if your words contained a shred of credibility, but after claiming that you'd need to read it for yourself, then bogging down to: "well, it might have existed" when you couldn't get your hands on a copy, with nothing tangible except the people who've claimed it once might have in a blue moon existed, show an ability to refocus your expectations to fit the situation at hand.

You claim originally you needed to see a copy for yourself, but when you couldn't find one, you took someone else's word for it and that's just fine. Where's the tenacity?

Although I do find some of the excessive defensiveness and rhetorical insults in here entertaining when I have the time to engage and foster it, for now I have more important things to accomplish - like finishing my cabinets.

You use defensiveness with the charm of a man who doesn't have a topic to defend from attack. This thread is quite obviously an attack thread, and I'm playing the role of defender. I apologize if my points are lengthy or if I engage in counter attack, but I guess I'm not perfect and when the enemy in this case will stop at nothing short of inventing books and fictional meetings of history to quote, I think I should be forgiven.

Unfortunately sir, my working tools are the gas gauge and the electrochemical detector, I doubt I'd be much help in cabinetry.

Eric Hoffer

Once again

You've misinterpreted or misread pretty much everything I said. Anyone here can go back and read my previous posts and see how in each case you've changed attributes of what you're responding to.

And, once again, none of what you've said here answers any of the simple questions I previously asked.

You asked for a source and I gave you mine, which I have looked at first-hand. Now you dispute it by saying it doesn't exist. Never mind the fact that you skewed attributes about what I said and apparently missed quite a few important details. Maybe you know a good Freemason lawyer who can help us file a class-action suit against Amazon for advertising and selling something that doesn't exist. And as for all those high-priced book “experts” you're dealing with who can't even find a reference to the book, never mind the book itself, I'd say you're getting ripped off.

I get the impression that you've just skimmed what I said, picked out certain key words without either noticing or comprehending important details surrounding them and then responded to what you (incorrectly) thought I meant. There's no need for me to reiterate or defend my previous statements until you take the time to actually read and understand them.