Playboy: Farhad Manjoo on the "truthiness found in internet Echo chambers"
For those interested, get the Playboy October 2008 issue and go to page 36 and 37 to read the whole essay.
Farhad brings up something I think we at the DailyPaul should always keep in mind at all times....for our own sanity.
She writes about an often repeated and famous psychology experiment, first conducted in the late 1960's. You recall the late 60's? The nation was widely divided on Vietnam, and as it turns out, the Gulf of Tonkin was all but a govt fictitious storyline about American warship getting attacked.
Well anyway, Timothy Brok and Joe Balloun asked undergrads to listen to a series of prerecorded speeches on several topics. The test subjects were told that the speeches have been recorded on cheap equipment, thus there was some static, but the students could REDUCE the interference for a few seconds by pressing a button in the testing room. Brock and Balloun monitored the students when they pressed the button (to get a closer listen) and when they did not press the button. The results were remarkable and in a dozen different ways have been tested and retested again and again.
RESULT? People tend to SEEK OUT information confirming their beliefs and AVOID information they find unpleasant. This idea psychologists call SELECTIVE EXPOSURE Bias.
Case in point. When the students listened to a speaker who said there was a link between smoking and cancer, some pressed the button, some did not. When another speaker said there was no link between smoking and cancer, others pressed the button and others did not.
So what was amazing? Prior student surveys told the researchers who had bias to believe one view or the other, prior to listening to the two speeches. Those students who already thought smoking was linked to cancer, (took action) Pressed the button, to hear it said. Those that did not already think so, let the button go and the static to remain..... And conversely, those that thought there was no link to smoking and cancer (took action) Pressed the button to listen to the speaker say there was no evidence for this.
So what Treg? So what? Well SELECTIVE EXPOSURE is a very big deal. It can cause us all to NOT see reality correctly, and for those that do not see it our way, we will be left scratching our heads asking ourselves, "Are they that dumb that they can't see all the evidence?"
The theory of SELECTIVE EXPOSURE bias applies to us all, each and every one of us, even more so in the internet decade. Google and Youtube is the enabler of the bias... .thus us internet geeks are particularly vulnerable.
Take any issue, say....autism and vaccines for example.
Hardly anyone comes to any issue 100% non bias... who likes getting a shot anyway? But even if you never ever heard of the controversy or the suggestion there was or was not a link causing the two, you would have about a 50% chance of traveling down one road of information versus the other road of information. Just a Google search would give you a hundred links to click on.
PERSONALITY TYPES. Now no two people are alike, I will grant you that. But certainly there are personality types. Those of us who are a little bit more nervous, concerned, worried, say, versus some of us who are all cheer, all smiles and laughs and not a worry in the world. Now what do you think what happens when these two types happen upon the Google search or youtube search about Vaccines and Autism? Do you think that those who are a bit more nervious would show a SELECTIVE BIAS to CLICK on something that told them there is a lot to worry about? Do you think those who are a bit to sun shinny will show a SELECTIVE BIAS to CLICK on something that reports all good news here, no connection between vaccines and autism ... move right along? Sure you do. So people will SELF GROUP themselves. The Paranoids over here, the Pollyannas over here, and each will go on Clicking and enjoying the loud streams of "evidence" Echo-ing around in their little world.
Now notice, the SELECTIVE BIAS says.... you will more often than not click on the links that take you down the path of information that you already agree with and or adds to your pre-click bias. In fact, you could spend hours, days, weeks, even years going down one path and be TOTALLY unaware that there was another path for those that thought otherwise.
That means you are in an "Echo chamber". We used to call it, "Preaching to the quire". Unlike real science, that is science that gets published and reviewed by professors everywhere WHO LIVE JUST TO CRITICIZE and thus vet it all out and down to zero....and if anything remains standing, then by default "its a fact or theory that holds up"...but at anytime can be shot down. The ECHO CHAMBER or Preaching to the Quire turns up the volume, Scientific Review shuts you up.
Echo chambers do not vet anything, they JUST AMPLIFY....
Real Science vs ECHO CHAMBERS.... what wins? What looses? Who wins? Who looses?
This essay is NOT about vaccines & autism, if you think it is, then start reading over. Now, back to the example of Vaccines & Autism as an EXAMPLE of the point of this essay. Now science in its journals and venues of vetting, has performed several tests to see if indeed there was a causal link, but the Theory of vaccine caused Autism comes up short every time. Even the most comprehensive study publish in 2007 by the New England Journal of Medicine concluded, "There is no causal association..."
Now Mrs. Manjoo brings up the case that we all loose when Echo Chambers are so loud, that no one can hear let alone find the science. She points out that John McCain at a town hall meeting was asked by a mother of an autistic child, "Do you believe between her son's condition and childhood vaccines?"....
Notice in today's world, the President is SUPER MAN and has INCREDIBLE POWERS OF WISDOM AND MEDICAL KNOWLEDGE about most anything and everything there is.... and thus, a vote hangs in the balance on what he says.... ....McCain, measured and concerned and wanting that vote deeply..."There is strong evidence that indicates that it's got to do with a preservative in vaccines," and soon saw the smile on her voting face and let it go....
Obama too is now en-wrapped inside the Echo chamber. Everywhere his campaign goes you can find large green signs that read..."GREEN our VACCINES". Barack Obama has called for more "work in that area" and "has a deep concern" but so far has found the vaccine-autism link, "inconclusive". Hillary Clinton continued on her campaign stumps, always plugging a mention "for the need for more research in this area".
The bigger the Echo chamber grows, politicians will follow the votes there and pander (TELL THEM WHAT THEY WISH TO HEAR) each and every time. Politicians will not Vet out the facts for the voters. Let me repeat that. POLITICIANS WILL NOT VET OUT THE FACTS FOR THE VOTERS. They will not say, yes I know that now 45 million Americans believe there are UFO's, but the fact is there is zero real evidence for it, so I do not believe it, nor will I vote to spend your money researching it, nor will I have it be taught in schools" --- No way, politicians do not talk like that. Should the Echo chamber for UFO's grow that large, 45 million believers... you can bet there will be funding, there will be lesson about it in schools, despite what those pesky atheist scientists say -- who listens to them anyway? Certainly not voters living inside their computer screens clicking away with SELECTIVE BIAS, at each and every click of the mouse.
Who is inside an Echo chamber? Well you know them. They send you things daily, weekly, and at all times are SHOCKED that you "just don't get it".
I have this one Bush-lover NeoCon Weekly Standard Reader who gets all his info from Faux news and of course, "The internet". What does he send me? Links that PROVE there really WAS WMD's in Iraq. Bush was right all along! When I try to send him other links that suggest otherwise, that are critical of his facts and links, ....do you think he reads them? Do you think he says to himself, "I must be honest with myself and admit that the evidence for WMD's in Iraq is indeed weak" Hell no! We Humans, for the most part, do not operate like logical Spocks. We need to get beat up, repeatedly, and hopefully with just words before we MAY come to our senses.
Scientists are NO BETTER. They will hold on to old test results, old theories, old notions and take them to their graves! Only by verbally whipping your "scientific peer" in a "peer paper review" so that all can see, read, concur, amend, or attack, will the vetting of what is true or not true begin.
We HUMANS are that Self Delusional. We truly are. We can see faces in clouds, when really, its just a cloud. The point is The Scientific method is a rational process, a double and triple blind and OUT IN THE PUBLIC process because we Humans are so self delusional. By doing "Good Science" we weed out our potential to see things, faces, patterns, when its just a cloud. Seriously, we humans can talk ourselves into any position, believe in ANYTHING really, and so its only by the sharp pens and words and facts of others do we get to come to our senses, if ever.
So the scientific process is great, we can collectively learn about reality, what is real and what is not. Our minds love to make connections, inferences, and guesses and assumptions. Its a short cut to reality. If by so doing we don't get pain, well then, it must be true! So make that rain dance, a lightening bolt did not stop you! It just may work next time.
Here is Mrs Manjoo, "Search engines can fuel SELECTIVE EXPOSURE bias. Type "Pentagon 9/11" into Google, for instance, and you're presented with different links pointing to two divergent stories abut the terrorist attack: either the official narrative -- a Boeing 757 struck the Pentagon -- or it was a missile that hit the Pentagon. You are free to jump down either Rabbit Hole. Like the smokers, you can decide, based upon your worldview, what version of "Truthiness" that you want to consume." Thank you Google.
She writes, "Technology evangelists have long argued that the Internet would liberate us from the lies and myths propagated by powerful media organizations. Increasingly, however, it seems as if digital technology is helping us all live inside ONLINE ECHO CHAMBERS built wholly of our own facts"
You may find the links provide here http://www.dailypaul.com/node/52918
a little against your SELECTIVE BIAS and even upsetting to your current worldview,...but sometimes its good to get out of the Echo Chamber once in a while.
In Peace & Liberty,
Treg





















Seems to me
that the biggest echo-chamber is the mass media.
So you're actually in an echo-chamber of some sort all the time.
When you think you are coming out of the "internet echo-chamber" you are actually going into the mass media echo chamber.
Which is exactly where they want you.
Because it is also full of lies.
The lies that THEY want you to believe, and not anything else you might read somewhere that might tip you off to their game.
After a quick search on this Manjoo character, it turns out he works for Slate and also NPR, and is basically just another leftist upset that people are finding things out.
Reminds me of when I was
Reminds me of when I was working for this financial services firm back in 2000/2001. The sales guys would come back and say, "Find me a reason to invest in gold!" and we'd find them (their clients) a reason. I found so many great reasons that I bought me some and now look at Gold!!!!
At that time, there were a whole lot of mainstream reasons NOT to invest in Gold. There were also a lot of reasons to never mention the word ever again. But once we were told to find a reason, then the truth seem to seep through the woodwork and to be honest we helped it grow by each click, search, post, article written and client talked into buying it.
Back then the Echo Chamber for us I guess was the Gold Bugs. Now the Gold Bugs are not an outcast any longer they are "right all along."
Maybe it's time to find a reason to get out? I'd much rather be in the front of the chamber with all the weirdos/geeks I guess, because that's where the truth begins--or at least the money, yeah?
Thanks
This is a very interesting article. Thought others may want to read it. I love searching the DP archives. There are alot of great posts. I look forward to taking part in this community. You people are great!
Thanks for digging this one up... its nice to read it again
Thanks,
Treg
I hope you take the content of the article to heart...
Your die hard stance on 9/11 is a good subject which I think you are ignoring evidence that doesn't fit your conclusion that was implanted by hundreds of hours of TV propaganda.
Free your mind my friend and remember that " The TRUTH is TREASON in the empire of lies."
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
I would like to thank you,
for talking to me like I was a human being. That is definitely growth for you.
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." Sun Tzu - The Art of War
I have some compassion for your "stance" as I was a
fervent repeater and defender of the official conspiracy until one of my close friends brought over a video and made me watch it with him a few years ago. After that my appetite for information has led me the conclusion that we have been lied to for the purpose of the destruction of our Republic/constitution through unjust wars of aggression on an innocent population in the middle east. I hope you open yours eyes and at least recognize that the official conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
"Old man take a look at your life, I'm a lot like you were"
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." Sun Tzu - The Art of War
"But Honey, I bought it so I
"But Honey, I bought it so I could read the articles"
Yeah I don't see that going over so well. :-)
Biased garbage
Yes, a pharmaceutic biased magazine, which has done more to destroy this once moral land, once healthy people, once free nation, possessed of liberty, sound money, principled thinking, limited government, free market, and non-interventionism; none of which has been either the forte or supported by, the owners and purveyors of this trashy rag... waxiness of composition and clearness of print notwithstanding! There are FAR better authors, and far better sources, and far better reading materials. It deserves a negative 5 stars! It boggles the mind that DailyPaul can find time to leave Dr. Paul aside for such existential nonsense. Another sign of the times, and quite frankly the day is fast approaching that the people cry out in fear, with little or no righteous direction, but loud and forceful fascist darkness directing them. Be prepared my friends for the hour fast approaches!
"Suspicion is a Virtue, if in the interests of the good of the people." Patrick Henry
"We are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of Nature has placed in our power... the battle, sir, is not to the strong alone - it is to the
Can't attack the message so you attack the messenger. Weak...
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." Sun Tzu - The Art of War
Okay my friend then let's hear your version of what happened?
Enlighten us please.
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
Allow me to shout into your echo chamber
This echo effect is true, thus leading to the following logic:
Those studies, peer reviewed journals, and even university departments (most research) are funded by the pharmaceutical industry. The thoughts of the observer change the observed results. The observer are either the industry itself are the beneficiaries. They BELIEVE IN IT. No doubt it works for some, who are predisposed to believing in it. The truth is vaccines are not necessary to save you. As Krishna stated in the Bhagavad Gita, (paraphrased) "Seek idols and I give them to you, but seek me and you will have me." No need to enact the healing process with onerous expensive medical industry sorcery. Go to the source yourself.
Interesting post.
I hope all who are inhabitants of the echo chamber will take a few minutes and read it. As a former inhabitant of the echo chamber, I know what it is like. Looking back now, I can see why and how I believed the things I did. It can negatively effect your life, your relationships, and your well being. My suggestion to those in the echo chamber would be to take time off from all "conspiracy" related material. After a few weeks or months, depending on how long you have had selective bias exposure, go back with an open mind and truly examine ALL sides to a certain issue or event. Block from your mind all you thought you knew about a subject and start again from the very beginning with no bias, prior belief, or prejudice. Reserve judgement until you have examined ALL sides, opinions, and evidence. Once you have made your judgement, spend as much time as you need thinking about it, debating others, debating yourself, and analyzing the judgement you decided upon. Also, always concede that you may be wrong. No one knows everything or could be right about everything.
When you already hate big government....
Its easy to make friends in the Conspiracy Crowd.... its even fun.
Let me make a big confession... I fear that by debunking Conspiracies, I will be taking the Steam out of the Ron Paul Libertarian R3VOLution.
The passionate resistance to Government should come from our principles and libertarian philosophy....just as it does for Dr. Paul, ..... but the Passion seems to be coming from the 9/11 truthers, the Alex Jone's, the Birtchers, the JKF'ers, the Mike Rupperts, etc and so..... I worry I should not be posting this...
In Peace & Liberty,
Treg
Birchers, not Birtchers
Now just hold one one minute! Don't you go lumping "Birchers" in with groups that you believe are "harming" the "movement" (such as your disdain for 9/11 truthers).
The John Birch Society has worked tirelessly since the late 50's at fighting what we see manifesting itself before our eyes right now. If more people back then had listened to Robert Welch and understood that subversives WERE taking over gov't positions above them, slowly destroying our republic, chances are we wouldn't be as screwed as we are today ....
No, you should post it if that's how you feel..
but what you shouldn't do...is actually feel that you are so well respected and full of knowledge that you are going to "debunk" anything and take steam out of a liberty movement.
I knew you guys were full of yourselves as well as full of $#!t, but this whole thread based on a playboy article takes the cake. Perhaps we should be thanking you for only releasing small tidbits of your great reasoning and knowledge...surely our little brains couldn't handle the stresses of your all knowing debunk buddies.
Laughable...completely laughable.
I understand what you are saying.
It's a tough call. What makes you so sure that the passion in the movement is coming from the "conspiracy" types? DailyPaul might not be the best indicator. The most vocal are not necessarily the most passionate. If the majority of the movement is "conspiracy" types, it will difficult to impossible to ever gain mainstream acceptance. It might also permanently taint the CFL and libertarian principles and philosophy. I was a "conspiracy" type individual for over 10 years starting in the early 1990's and stop believing a year or so after 9/11. I talked to hundreds of peoples trying to let them know about the NWO, Waco, OKC bombing, etc. and only "converted" a few people,that I know of. I believe it is a certain personality type that is attracted to "conspiracies" therefore it will be extremely difficult to make inroads to the mainstream population and gain new people to the movement. For every person attracted to the R3VOLution because of their "conspiracy" type mentality , I believe all the "conspiracy" talk being done by these individuals pushes 5 or more people away who would otherwise be attracted to the message espoused by RP. We will effectively be marginalized to the fringe in the populations' collective mind.
I do not have a problem with people believing in conspiracies. My problem with the "conspiracy" types, at least those who are very vocal, is that they ignore RP when he stated that they are hurting him and his ability to spread his message and that he wished for them to stop. They push their own agenda, without any concern that they might be hurting the freedom movement or their own chance at ever being truly free.
I guess Obama extended the
I guess Obama extended the Bush policy of stifling dissent through co-intelpro here at the DP. Stalin would be proud.
Welcome back big guy.
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
Wow! Well said
What bothers me most is the feeling that when indeed, something evil government does do, our message will be soiled because we pushed 9/11 truther theories.
Waco was and is a tradgety at the government's doorstep. Randy Weaver was and is a tradgety at the government's doorstep. 9/11 is also a tradgety at government's Negligent DoorStep. ....... But 9/11 truther theories are full of holes, full of fudged, cropped, edited, framed, and selectively presented "facts".
I guess no movement is perfect....
In Peace & Liberty,
Treg
And the 9/11 Commission Report wasn't???
truther "theories" may be full of holes, but what about the "official story"... air tight? I think not ..... and yes, there may be "cropped" and "edited" bites here and there, but then there is also scientific peer-reviewed papers stating things were found in the dust that shouldn't be there. No amount of "debunking" can change this. Therefore, we get back to truth. NO MATTER what you think, we were not told the truth and thus "9/11 truth" will exist and persist until we know the truth.
The Government theories are
The Government theories are full of $hit. It's the biggest conspiracy theory to date except for maybe the one about the blue beam project but that's probably being pushed by an implant to harm alternative theories.
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
Why....
do you think you're debunking anything? You've changed nothing. The only people agreeing with you are the ones that share your echo chamber...right?
Or those of us in the stands bouncing back and forth between
Echo Chambers... yes.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IwIRNM5noY
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
"Human beings with love and compassion are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe... Those without are a plague on us all."
there are essays & aritcles in Playboy?
.
Yes, believe it or not!
Some would say its a rip off, publishing 135 pages and only giving the reader 12 pages of beautiful women to look at.... but when that gets old, there is a lot to read!
Take for example a couple months back. They interviewed the President of the Libertarian Party.
Playboy knows its readership has strong libertarian leanings...too bad libertarians have issues with Playboy.
In Peace & Liberty,
Treg
a classic joke...
the only issues I have are on my magazine shelf.
Do you have the issue where Ayn Rand was interviewed?
I was also wondering if they ever interviewed Milton Friedman. Do you know?
Treg
Friedman interviewed Feb 1973
Found a copy of the Rand interview 1964 - http://www.ellensplace.net/ar_pboy.html