Challenge for all you Christian bashers.
Submitted by tamtamfreedom on Tue, 09/23/2008 - 07:33
You find me an openly Atheist candidate...anyone running for office...that supports the Constitution and all the things that Ron Paul stands for and I will personally support that person and help to get them elected. I want a list of everything they has said in support of liberty, so I know they are not just throwing the word "Constitution" around. I am Christian, and I do not vote for someone just because they say they are Christian... Please accept my challenge and I look forward to seeing the list of candidates.
I also take Buddhists, Muslims, Shawmins, Wiccans, anything other than Christians...that "where it on their sleeves" as you say.
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Someone that is defending
Someone that is defending their faith based religion has nothing real in nature for support, only the written documents handed down and reinterpreted from ancient Egyptian astrology (christian and Islam ). Build a couple of huge monuments, dress appropriately and talk louder than everyone else and wallah! a nice religion that can subjugate billions. Not unlike what the Federal Reserve has done and accomplished.
Seems very easy to knock the Fed around here but just have a little disdain for GOD and all liberty goes out the window or should I say goes to Hell.
hold on the building is starting to shake here, and wpifp iofwpoefi ifowpf wpioewfio wfeiopwpof f owfiowe neiopefwoipewioewi, I speak in tongues to, false alarm, just a jet plane overhead.
To answer your challenge, consider this,
I can do more for the people as a republican congressman than as an independent, so says Ron Paul.
I can do more for the people saying I'm a Christian Politician then by alienating all religions (most of the planets population) as an atheist.
I was raised a Christian and
I was raised a Christian and I am of a different Spiritual path now.
I have many friends that are Christians and a significant other who proclaims being an Atheist.
I think the persecution of Christians may be similar to that of Jewish people in that, it seems to some in ignorance, that they tend to have a very tight knit community that appears to not let anyone else in.
This is not the case necessarily I am just making an observation. I am just merely speculating. However, the whole literal premise that saying Jesus is the only way to Heaven really limits the mind and the philosophic nature of humans to question people in authority. Including in the Church..and Jesus himself.
Just my two cents..it is what I witness people saying sometimes...I am not saying any of you feel that way...
Peace,
Liberty Girl
I'm a Christian, too...
but I've found a lot more to believe in the "apostate" A COURSE IN MIRACLES than anything written by that "reformed Christian killer," Paul, in the NEW TESTAMENT. Any of you self-described "athiests" should check it out; and, please, if anything, stop acting as intolerant as the so-called "religious" people you frequently condemn.
Lets end the bashing
We all know some people that rely on religious belief to remain somewhat obtuse about the ways of the world. And we all know some people that really think they can figure everything out on their own, love to tell us where we are wrong and are not so hot in seeing their own blind spots. But these are the extremes and not reflective of the majority.
In the end its really not given to humans to know whats behind the curtain and having faith in science/reason or religion/revelation is pretty much the same thing...a faith (when it comes to the "TRUTH"). So we all rely on some faith, are all in the same boat...can we set our various faiths aside and attend to getting back to shore? Cuz the storm is acommin'.
To answer the question, an avowedly atheist candidate is a non-starter in a republic that determines its representatives by popular vote. I think its a matter of the majority not wanting anyone at EITHER of the extremes at the helm.
"Politically, if religious
"Politically, if religious faith dominates, freedom will not be permitted. If the basic political goal is the secular one of defending individual rights, then each person has sovereignty over his life and is left free by the state to think for himself and to pursue his own values. But if the basic goal is to implement the will of some unfathomable deity, then the citizen cannot be allowed to exercise his own judgment and to challenge divine authority."
Here's a few articles that might make you think a bit. Of course, I support the individual's right to be 'religious', but these links basically reflect why I think that ultimately religion is at odds with liberty, and why I personally reject it. I agree completely with the poster below that I'm supporting Ron Paul and Chuck Baldwin IN SPITE OF their Christianity, because unlike Bush and the neocons, I believe they both understand the difference between personal religious beliefs and a Constitutional government.
http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8400&n...
http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5360&n...
http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=10695&...
Doc Holladay
Nashville, TN
http://www.myspace.com/docholladaymusic
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
It seems that some atheists are bigotted
against Christians. A good Christian will keep his own faith and accept the freedom of others to do the same. In fact, the doctrine of "free will" is essential to the Judeo-Christian tradition. Why? Because God does not want slaves, he wants mankind to freely worship Him and serve His justice.
I think this is where the logic of atheists breaks down. If we are to be truly free, then there must be law. Without law, we are all at the mercy of the strongest and most violent. But the basis of law is "right" and without God there is no objective definition for what is right. Thus the oft quoted statement of John Adams, "Our Constitution was written for a religious and moral people and is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
The need for God is inherent to most of us and we are grateful. For those who do not perceive this need, we offer prayers. But, if you love freedom, efforts to eradicate religion must be resisted, even if you happen to be an atheist.
Moral Values Without Religion ?
I say yes, and so does this article.
http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=11127&...
Obviously, you missed the part where I stated that I support the individual's right to believe in and practice their own religion. My views are different, however, and I was merely stating my reasons why.
To address your first point...."God does not want slaves, he wants mankind to freely worship Him and serve His justice"
If this is indeed true, and God supports 'free will' then he, by necessity, sould be ok with people using their 'free will' to find their own path and decide against worshiping him... without threatening eternal torment etc.
"If you refuse to obey all the terms of this law that are written in this book, and if you do not fear the glorious and awesome name of the LORD your God, then the LORD will overwhelm both you and your children with indescribable plagues." Deuteronomy 28:58
As for your second point, I agree that we need laws, but they should only be in place to protect the individual's life, freedom, and property from those who would use force to threaten them. I know many atheists who are certainly quite 'moral', so it cannot be that their morality comes from a belief in "God" or in his rules. To me the God of the Bible is vindictive, malevolent, jealous, chauvinistic and has the manners of a spoiled child. There are quite a few examples of his 'laws' in the O.T. that I have a hard time calling 'moral'. Here's a couple of examples:
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB) so, if my son hits me, by God's law, I should put him to death?
Leviticus 21:9 Explains that unchaste daughters of priests must be burnt to death.
Exodus 21:7 God not only sanctions selling ones daughter into slavery, but he also gives out laws on how it should be done.
Leviticus 27:3-7 God places a dollar value on human life; with women worth less than men.
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
If this is 'morality' according to the Biblical 'God', then I guess I'll have to take my chances.
Doc Holladay
Nashville, TN
http://www.myspace.com/docholladaymusic
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
I am not bigotted against Christians,
but I am REALLY tired of being prayed at, for, and by them. I will take responsibility for my relationship with the Creator (I do not consider myself atheist, most Christians do, though.) When someone says "Let us pray" I am more than happy to take a moment of silent reflection, except that some jerk wad will pipe up and start praying to THEIR god out loud, preventing me from doing what I WOULD do if they would shut up. (Then they close with "In Jesus' name WE pray" and it FROSTS MY ASS. I do NOT invoke Jesus when I pray, how dare they drag me into that without my consent?)
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
Last time I checked, man
Last time I checked, man makes law and it's made by the society, which decides the "right", which is indeed not objective, hence all the different laws throughout history and all over the world.
The constitution IS obviously inadequate.
Unfortunatley
The term Christain gets a bad wrap because of some so-called christains that mistake church going ,bible quoting,judging,using Gods name in vain.(that does'nt mean saying g dammit it means for you own purpose or benefit.) pushing thier interpretation of sin and scripture on others. AS well as others judging christains soley on the title christian. There are many variations or denominations of christians. Wich also causse them to fight amongst themselves. So that is why I do'nt care to look at the faith of a candidate. Only how they act upon it. I do'nt mind that Chuck is Christain, but I do'nt like the way he preaches it in the political realm.It it a waste of good policy point making time and it does tend to make him sound like he is going ti push his beliefs on the people. Wish he and all of the candidate would lay off the Roe v Wade thing. We have too many other things to deal with now. let's worry about the mass murders of people in general that is going on in war right now. That includes Women , children, Pregnant women, the elderly' healthy young men and women who are or should just be starting their lives. How is that for pro-life. I will not except a pro war candidates claim to be pro life. It's contradictory! Unfortunatley the anti abortion pro war stance seems to be very common in churchgoers. (notice I did not say christians)
Psst..
hey... "Where" is spelled "wear" in that context.. But I agree with the message you wrote. If the Dali lama was running for president and was up holding the Constitution and putting it first before religion like Baldwin does... I'd vote for him..
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Psst.
I apologize before you critiqe my typing/ grammar/ spelling/. Im fuzzy today. ;0
Here
Being openly atheist in America is as risky today as was being openly homosexual a generation ago, or openly female or openly black years before. It is much easier in our monolithic monotheistic culture to be openly theist than to be honest about one's lack of belief in invented silliness.
Anyway, in answer to your challenge, here I am.
I am no more a "christian-basher" than I am a "druid-basher" or a "jew-basher". I'll readily challenge any position which I perceive to be a denial of reality. I also know when not to bash as it often reaches a point of being irrelevant.
I supported Dr Paul in spite of his Christianity.
I'll vote for Mr Baldwin in spite of his Christianity.
My support for both was predicated on my understanding of their fealty to the Constitution. To gauge mine, I refer you to...
www.citizenduquesne.org
But my answer may well be moot this cycle as I am not presently a candidate for public office.
The Freedom Formula: Au + Ag + Cu + Pb
LXXI BC: Ego sum Spartacus // MDCCCLVII: I am Dred Scott // MCMVL: Ich bin Anne Frank // MMX: Je suis Assange // MMXI: Ik ben von NotHaus
An objectivist can be an atheist or a person of faith ...
Faith is exactly that, faith. It can not be proven and while theologians do their best, sound arguement cannot do it justice.
An objectivist gets their ethics, not from God, but simply by existing.
They are innate.
Are they innate bacause God added them to the ingrediants or because of some evolutionary trigger, is a question that may never be answered.
You can be ethical (pure selfish behavior that starts with a tremendous thirst for knowledge) and be an athiest or a person of faith.
A person of faith simply believes that their legacy will live on in this life and the next, as opposed to an athiest which dismisses his legacy in an afterlife.
That is it.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
The only thing invented
Is your feigned intelligence. Typical of any professor, in his hubris, he thinks he has outsmarted even The Creator. Until you learn humility you will never know the Truth.
You all shall pay dearly when you die. Embrace your Maker while you still can.
"The body is but a vessel for the soul,
A puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny.
And lo, the body is not eternal,
For it must feed on the flesh of others,
Lest it return to the dust whence it came.
Therefore the soul deceives and despises."
"You shall all pay dearly when you die"
Fearmongering at its finest. And why I have no use for organized religion, it is their stock in trade.
My "loving, Heavenly Father" is gonna fry me FOREVER because I happened to notice that my neighbor has a fine ass? But you will not even look rationally at this type of belief system, because you are afraid you will roast in hell forever for even QUESTIONING what the nice preacher told you. (Did he have you sit on his lap while he explained?)
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
How dare you threaten and
How dare you threaten and blackmail someone with something you have nothing to show for. Don't bother with pointing to text, it's your personal unsubstantiated, nasty act of fearmongering that's truly disgusting.
you quit typing like you're
you quit typing like you're god almighty himself. otherwise you'll be the one who pays dearly. HE frowns upon those who wag their finger. HE sent his son as a living example. Where's your living example?!!!
It's not through your yappity yap or through your typing fingers. Live it. The voice of the creator comes through your actions, not your big fat mouth or commando keyboard.
The prof will accept the creator when he's good and ready.
Perhaps tomorrow, perhaps never. That's his choice.
Many Things are Invented
As for "Embracing the Light" I'm afraid it's not so simple as that. I'd love to believe in my own immortality, I expect it provides a great deal of comfort. Unfortunately, belief is not volitional. I can no more choose to believe in Juju's mercy than I can Green Kryptonite. Too bad for me. I'm doomed and I know it. I envy you, though, you're doomed and you believe otherwise. Good for you!
The Freedom Formula: Au + Ag + Cu + Pb
LXXI BC: Ego sum Spartacus // MDCCCLVII: I am Dred Scott // MCMVL: Ich bin Anne Frank // MMX: Je suis Assange // MMXI: Ik ben von NotHaus
Hey Prof, Nice to see
Hey Prof,
Nice to see a fellow traveler.... have you looked into telomerase research? Pretty much seems to be the key to 'immortality' if it continues it's present course. Lines up nicely with the work of Zecharia Sitchin regarding the 'immortality' of the 'gods' and the promise of 'eternal life' for humanity if they 'obeyed'. ~Peace~
Doc Holladay
Nashville, TN
http://www.myspace.com/docholladaymusic
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
thanks!
I am not familiar with those, and I can hardly wait to look into them.
If you are interested in the very, very creepy side of immortality, I can help you out. Stem cell research and transplanted organs from very young donors. Remember little Madeleine McCann? Some nice NWO prick approved her photo, now she is gone? I am sure he had a lovely, intimate evening with her before she was his organ donor. Look into the "Amber alert" system and ask yourself WHY it was so hard to get that legislation passed?
Love those electronic medical records? Me, not so much. They are a complete data base of every disease you have, every injury you have suffered, and a nice way to find blood type matches. And soon, donor matches. Although, the risk of rejection goes WAY down if you eat a bit of the body of the donor. No, I am not making that up.
Proof? I got nothing. I have 20+ years in healthcare, including 7 involved with clinical research. LOTS of circumstantial stuff, lots of very suspicious stuff, and a recently acquired VERY healthy dose of mistrust.
You know Rockefeller set up the AMA, right?
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
Check these out... well
Check these out... well worth a read. Peace to ya!
http://www.amazon.com/Reversing-Human-Aging-Michael-Fossel/d...
http://www.amazon.com/Immortal-Cell-Scientists-Quest-Mystery...
Doc Holladay
Nashville, TN
http://www.myspace.com/docholladaymusic
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
I'll manage your campaign
when you do run!
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
Nothing yet...
by the way...remember when Romney was getting all that slack about his Mormonism and Ron Paul stood up for him and said religion should never be a litmus test for the Presidency...well I agree with this. But why is it that non-Christians won't vote for a Christian, but Christians have no problem voting for a non-Christian? It just drives me crazy that we can't just stay on their ideology, their politics as it were..Just look how freaked out people get over the fact that Obama might be "Muslim" which he is not, but they keep spreading that to scare people out of voting for him. Not voting against him because he has stupid political ideas, but because he might be a closet Muslim. Now that is bigotry.
It's not really fair to say
It's not really fair to say that people on this forum, regardless of their religious belief, won't vote for people that don't share their (non-)religioun.
I am an Atheist and I (and many others) was supporting Ron Paul, even though he is Christian. The heart of the matter is that we are considerate of each other. Help each other and work togather. Just because you believe I will go to hell for not believing in your God, doesn't mean I am a bad, immoral person, nor does it give you the right to preach to me. About Obama, the attack on him being a Muslim is something that plays directly to the fear of "Islamic Fundementalists". Like the people blamed for 9/11 are. I personally could care less what religion he belongs to.
I believe that leading a good, honest and moral life is really the only thing we should all agree is the most important thing to do, and any affiliation in religion says nothing about us being honest, good or moral.
Just because someone praises God, doesn't make him any better than someone that doesn't. This will be a divisive issue as long as people don't realize we cannot force our will on others. And due to the thought that people who believe differently are not moral people. Atheists will have a really hard time getting in office, and we don't see alot of them running because we are such a minority.
WHOA - WTF? I vote for nothing but Christians
I have no choice.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
religion = masturbation
What do you call it when someone has an emotional and physiological response to a stimulus that is entirely imaginary?
Imaginary friend, imaginary lover, imaginary parent, imaginary savior, imaginary self...
this post is neither
this post is neither insightful, interesting or humorous.
why don't you go crawl under a rock.
Bashing Christians on this site
is totally uncalled for. I am a Christian and I have never bashed the unbelievers, or those who believe different than I do. I welcome all that want liberty. That is why I would never vote for Huck, and why I am voting for Chuck, because he is for liberty for ALL. Remember the one who runs this site is a Christian and also the good doctor Ron Paul.
reality
When Ron Paul talks about the financial crisis, he recommends that we allow the reality of the market place to dictate prices, even if that reality causes some short term pain as a natural consequence of free market competition.
Our only real hope for long term peace and prosperity is rooted in reality.
When generation after generation is brainwashed into believing the schizophrenic fantasy worlds of mythology and religion, the people of the world lose their willingness and ability to grasp the actual facts of the real world with their own senses. How can we, the people, solve the problems of the world when we're being lead like sheep from the pasture to the slaughter?
The "good shepherd" is exactly what the nickname implies.
(The teachings of Jesus can definitely help a person to discover freedom from the illusions of thought, and therefore freedom from self-inflicted suffering; but Christianity is a disgusting perversion of his teachings.)