Sarah Palin - Save the Wolves

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!! D I G G I T !!

for the pro-lifers. More on the wolves below.



Take action online at http://www.savewolves.org/alaska

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Palin....is a

loser...this is coming from someone who lived in Alaska btw.

Here here and amen.

Alaskaron,

Well said and right on. We are very much on the same page. (in reference to your reply on page 1).

Cheers. :-)

thank you for your kind words of support, indy

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no matter what

death is ugly, they kill for food and their kills are just as ugly, if not uglier, most of the time thier prey are eaten alive.i disagree with what someone said about bow hunters being more sportsman like. most bow kills are very ugly, i know , ive seen it many times. i hunt and i feel hunters should be allowed to use the best gun possible for a clean quick kill . in the end though, death is death, and its always ugly, but its something we all will face someday, like it or not. if wolves were endangered like they were 20 years ago then i would say stop for awhile, but if there is plenty and they are a threat to your food supply, then you gotta do what you gotta do. its called survival.

I love to hunt

Death is not always ugly. Sometimes it is a beautiful thing, especially when it feeds and clothes you and your family.

At one time, I was of the thought that the cleanest kill would come from the 'best gun possible' but after I started hunting in a primitive fashion I will admit I was wrong. I now hunt with an indian flatbow reinforced with natural sinew. The arrows are from wild rose with flintknapped heads of obsidian. All of my equipment is 'primitive' but all legal by my states standards.

Most if not all of the animals I took with a gun or compound bow died a very violent death, running scared, heart exploding in their chest.

Now with my current equipment, all have barely even noticed they were fatally wounded. They don't even run from the killing blow. Most continue feeding while bleeding out. Sometimes if there happens to be a string snap or the arrow passes through to startle them, they will run a few yards. But its nothing like tracking down an animal for hundreds of yards when taken with a gun.

I will always continue to hunt, farm and collect from the wild. It is in my nature and to deny ones instinct is to deny your very life. I will always have respect for what is taken. Without it's sacrifice, I would not exist. This goes for plants as well as animals.

The economy is crashing and you are worried

about wolves? There is no hope.

It's interconnected

The kind of people who have so little regard for life they'll shoot animals for sport are also the kind who care so little about humans they'll allow the ecomony to collapse just to gain increased governmental control over their lives.

Bingo

My words and feeling exactly.

Wolf attacks

I don't know if there is a problem with Wolf attacks in Alaska but the wolves in Idaho seem to have figured out that a person or a dog/cat is much easier to kill and eat then a dear or elk. Wolf attacks are getting more prevalent every year. I don't have an opinion about hunting them for sport but if they ever come near my family I won't hesitate shooting it and disposing of the remains to prohibit being prosecuted by the EPA.

That's different

Shooting a wolf that's about to attack your family at close range would most likely result in a quick and humane death for the wolf. The wolves shot from the low flying airplanes usually suffer for hours before they die.

The whole wolf killing thing is crazy.

The people in Alaska don't want the wolf doing what it has done since time immemorial, instead they want to be able to hunt animals easily.

Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both

Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both

I'm not disagreeing with you

Although I do think people have a right to defend their families. Personally , I choose to live somewhere where the largest predators around are foxes, and they're harmless to humans, but I do have to watch out for my cats.

Sure she's not talking

about Kissinger. He sure looked like a wolf in that picture that was taken of him and Sarah

In my book...

In my book, I have a hard time coming up with an organization that exemplifies the intellectual and moral decline of the west as much as PETA does. Relativism gone wild.

To equate the abortion of human life with the aerial hunting of wolves displays an equally disturbing intellectual and moral perversity.

That being said, IMO there is little "sport" in shooting a wolf from a helicopter with a thirty ought six. In fact using the term "sport" for many types of hunting is inappropriate. There's not much sport in using a 30x scope, sitting in a blind and waiting for bambi to pop out in the open. However, there are types of hunting that are truly sporting: Bow hunting, pistol hunting and hunting animals that have an inclination to tear human beings limb from limb. Bow hunters are studs. My brother was once drew a permit for javelina hunting here in Arizona. He used a pistol for his permit. I could never shoot a javelina personally, but if there is a sporting way to hunt them, using a pistol (or bow) certainly qualifies.

I don't hunt nor do I care to. I love wild animals and prefer not to hunt them unless I have to. If I had to hunt for food, I would in a heart beat. Obviously I don't think some forms of hunting are truly sport, but man do I support others right to hunt. Hunters are comrades in the fight for the second amendment.

In fact the problem I have with many of these arguments is that they are made by city slicker types who are so sentimentally delusional about nature and what it's like to actually live in the habitat where these animals reside. Use of the land for ranching and other resource uses are anathema to them.
And that's the problem I have with many of the so called animal rights folks: They want to pretend that humans are not part of the food chain, that we are somehow interlopers... Go figure. It is a form of mental masturbation of the worst kind.

I don't know if the assertions about wolves hunting for pleasure are true or not, it doesn't matter. Truth is that there is other evidence that animals kill for reasons beyond subsistence- check out some of the films of chimpanzees killing others. Maybe PETA could start a new campaign to educate these brazen chimps about their reprehensible behavior....

I believe in taking care of the creation, and being a steward of the land (Edward Abbey fan here) I believe that all creatures are God's and that untamed, un-trashed landscapes play a significant role in our spiritual, mental and societal health(subsides have been absolutely devastating in this regard).To our peril we have ignored this. However, this does not equate to equality of value nor worth between humans and animals.

Our family pet is a cat, I cherish him deeply. He once was my pet alone, now that I'm married and have a family he is the family pet. I absolutely adore him. The thought of him dying some day brings tears to my eyes. I will grieve very deeply when that day comes.

I also have two kids, their worth and value transcend our cats value in a way that surpasses my ability to articulate it.

I value and treasure both, but there is a hierarchy of value in play- to put it mildly.

My two cents.

It doesn't matter?

The only reason these wolves are shot is because their food sources are moose and caribou, the same animals hunters want to hunt. They're not killed for their meat or fur, they're killed because they happen to compete with the tourist industry. Personally, I think that's an abuse of our stewardship over the planet, but even if you don't, there's got to be a more humane way of decreasing the wolf population than shooting them from airplanes.

Watching a wolf or any animal die from starvation

is certainly less humane. This is often the case when species populations are not reasonably managed.

As for concern for stewardship over the planet, I've made my position quite clearly.

As for other culling alternatives:

1. Start a turf war between rival wolf packs and then provide them with firearms.
2. Teach the caribou how to shoot.
3. chain up some caribou as bait in the middle of the ALCan highway and let the truckers have their way with them.
4. Encourage wolves to use excessive amounts of prescription sedatives and go off to permanent sleepy time. Heck there might even be an existing bloated government program for that one. Now that I think about it, there was mention of this in the 2007 Prescription drug act...

Yeah, that's the ticket....

I like #4

Seriously, couldn't the wolves be shot with sedatives then put down or something?

Shooting an animal with sedatives is tricky

Use of tranquilizers require an estimate of weight. How do you size up an animal from the air to make sure you get the dosage correct? It is harder than people think.

Too little would just make the wolf angry, and too much would kill them anyway.

Also, if the shooter misses the animal, you have a tranquilizer dart "somewhere out there" that could end up being stepped on by some other creature, thereby quite possibly harming an unintended innocent victim.

Shooting sure beats the awful traps that could be used. Now those are cruel.

I don't think shooting wolves is glamorous or even very nice. But considering they are eating the animals that humans need to eat for survival, it becomes a game of survival of the fittest, and I will always prefer human survival over animal survival.

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Aren't you exaggerating?

Are you saying if the wolves weren't culled, humans in Alaska would starve to death? I find that hard to believe, too.

Tens of thousands of humans in Alaska

live subsistence lifestyles. They eat the animals they hunt. They eat fish, seals, berries, walruses, moose, caribou, whale, etc., depending on their location and what is available in that area.

So yes, wolves killing local game supply would cause these humans to need to find alternate food sources.

What would you suggest those be, Ruth? I am genuinely interested in knowing what you would suggest these subsistence hunters and gatherers eat instead.

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O.K.

If you say so. I didn't realize Alaska was a state of full of people living so hand to mouth. But let's get at the real issue here. Are you defending Sarah Palin's wolf hunts because you like her? And if so, is her nomination of vice president enough to make you want to vote for McCain?

Bush (Rural) Alaska; Subsistence villages

Is virtually indistinguishable from many third world countries.

Plywood shacks for homes. Human waste removal is accomplished by honeybuckets dumped in lagoons (for those who do not know, a honeybucket is a five-gallon bucket with a toilet seat on top of it). No roads, just trails and boardwalks. ATVs instead of cars. Gas, though, is $8 a gallon. Few cash jobs, and virtually all jobs in rural bush villages are government jobs (school and post office, mainly). People eat things such as fermented beaver tail and stinkheads (look that one up).

In urban areas, it is not like this. We have modern conveniences in the major cities. But half of our population does not live in our major cities. They live in rural areas.

I invite you to look at some photographs of various rural Alaskan villages, and read about them at this site:
http://www.dced.state.ak.us/dca/photos/comm_list.cfm
Here's a picture of one village, including a traditional sod house, surrounded by ramshackle plywood homes:
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/AnaktuvukPass/ANAKTUV...
Here's a few more pictures of rural Alaska that may surprise you:
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/HooperBay/HOOPER_B66.JPG
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/HooperBay/HOOPER_B81.JPG (Public watering point: see a woman with child get a plastic bucket full of water to haul home on her ATV)
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Kotlik/KOTLIK3.JPG (Here is a Honey Bucket dump station. Just haul your five gallon bucket of shit from your home, a mile or so down the boardwalk, and dump it in the hole...every...damn...day...of your life. Lifestyles of the rich and famous, eh?)
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/HooperBay/HOOPER_B109... (this is a village police HQ, note how the town is connected by boardwalks, not roads)
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/SaintMary's/SAINT_MA3.JPG (this is the District Court House in one village)
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Kivalina/KIVALINA1.JPG (this village is located on a narrow barrier island, on the Bering Sea)
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Kivalina/KIVALINA17.JPG
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Kongiganak/KONGIGAN3.JPG
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Kotlik/KOTLIK6.JPG (a village "grocery" store)
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Hughes/HUGHES5.JPG (downtown Hughes, AK)
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Deering/DEERING13.JPG
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Deering/DEERING5.JPG
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/WhiteMountain/WHITE_M... ("Glamorous" White Mountain, Alaska...gold rush territory of days of yore)
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Kaktovik/KAKTOVIK1.JPG
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Noorvik/NOORVIK3.JPG (Caution, this is a picture of people filleting a walrus)
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Alakanuk/ALAKANUK3.JPG
ftp://ftp.dcbd.dced.state.ak.us/PHOTOS/Mekoryuk/MEKORYUK24.JPG (Herd of caribou outside a village)

This is fairly representative of rural Alaska. It is like a third world country. I lived in several bush villages. It is unlike anything, anywhere else in this country. I hope you will take a moment and look at the pictures.

As for your other question: no, I am not enamoured of Mrs. Palin. She is a neo-con through and through, and no, she will not cause me to vote for McCain. I'm voting for Mr. Baldwin.
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I suspect Rove et al would be in favor of option 1

He might even try to get us all to believe that the wolves are allowing Al Qaeda to train in their dens.
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:-)

Why didn't I think of that... doh!

I should have added a #5- a false flag attack on the wolves, by the wolves.

TOURISM?

Try subsistence hunting by Alaskans who need food to eat.

I really have a hard time with urban liberals from the lower 48 pretending they have half a clue what goes on in Alaska.

I've lived in bush Alaska, where people eat moose and caribou like we eat beef and chicken.

Controlling predators (wolves) is no different than a farmer shooting a coyote or wolf that keeps preying on his lambs or a fox that is stealing his chickens.

It has nothing to do with "tourism". That is so laughable that only a Madison Avenue liberal could come up with such nonsense.

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Are you saying

there's no such thing as hunters who travel from other areas to Alaska to hunt moose and caribou? If so, I find that very difficult to believe.

Of course there are!

Just as there are photographers who travel to Alaska to photograph our wildlife.

Are you saying that radical left wing animal rights extremists are not behind these attempts to meddle in a state's right to control its own destiny?

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Of course there are!

You seem inconsistent to me. Earlier you said the wolf hunts had nothing to do with tourism, but this post suggests they do. No, I'm not saying the state has no right to it's own destiny. I was raised in Wisconsin, a state that also has a hunting industry. I just wanted you to be honest about why the wolves are being culled, that's all.

The point of so-called wolf aerial hunting is predator control

I am being honest. Why would I lie? Predator control has nothing to do with tourism and everything to do with just that....controlling the population of predators.

I don't even hunt. I've never shot an animal in my life.
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Let me say this about that.

Not to mention an Alaskan killing local game for food is much more efficient then breeding a steet in Florida moving it to Texas to fatten up then moving it to Kansas City for butchering and flying it to New York City to put in a resturant.