RP's thing for Gold. What's the story?
Submitted by Storm3 on Thu, 11/08/2007 - 14:04
I need someone to explain me, very simply, what Ron Paul's position on the dollar is.
I have read in comments that he wants the dollar to be backed up by gold... as it once was. Is this accurate? I can find no solid sources for this.
To my understand, the constitution demands the currency to be backed up by gold or silver, but is it, in any way, realistic to back up the dollar by gold?
I also read he wants to allow companies to compete with their own fiat money, something which is illegal today. Is that accurate?
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Gold (or other "Limiting" factor) is needed to stop manipulation
Gold (or other "Limiting" factor) is needed to stop manipulation of the money supply -- by manipulation one means inflation and hyperinflation.
And inflation does NOT mean simply "increase in prices" -- that is the consequence of inflation, NOT the cause. Inflation is actually the insertion into the economy of a significant amount of additional "money units" (thus decreasing the relative value of the previously existing money units -- hence an increase in prices.
As to the "Gold Standard" -- unfortunately the rather illiterate media (and many "experts" who durn well know better) -- portray it as a "19th Century Anachronism" (much as they portray the Constitution as a "piece of paper", rather than the governing contract between the people & states and the Federal government.)
The FACT of the matter is that the dollar WAS backed by gold for nearly 3/4 of the TWENTIETH century. For 34 years, from 1900 thru 1933 an ounce of gold = $20, and $20 = 1 ounce of gold, period.
In 1933, FDR confiscated gold coins from American citizens via an Executive Order (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102) -- and shortly AFTER doing so (i.e. after giving people a paper $20 bill in exchange for each ounce of gold they turned in) -- he DEVAULED the dollar to be $35 per ounce of gold {essentially an instant 41% tax on the cash savings of American citizens} -- and issued subsequent "orders" that made it effectively illegal for citizens to obtain or keep gold coins.
Gold remained at $35 per ounce for the next 39 years, until 1972. But, American citizens basically were NOT (and are not) aware of this because WE were not allowed to make this "exchange" of dollars for gold. BUT, foreign citizens, companies and countries WERE allowed to "turn in" US paper dollars and receive gold.
THAT ended in late 1971, we went OFF the Gold standard -- with the "Nixon Shock" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_shock) when Nixon issued another "Executive Order" that "temporarily" suspended such redemptions of dollars for gold by foreigners -- effectively declaring "bankruptcy" by a unilateral decree, and that the dollar would "float".
So, from 1900 thru effectively 1972, the US dollar was backed by gold. That is 73% or virtually 3/4 of the 20th century.
In the 1970's, after Nixon did this little remembered dirty trick -- the ACTUAL value of people's savings of cash dollars began to decrease dramatically (not quite as dramatically than when FDR performed his 41% Devaluation/Tax) -- this resulted in massive economic problems in the US, everything from the mid-70's "Energy Crisis" (which was really a natural consequence of the "dollar devaluation" policy); to the runaway policies of government "deficit" spending; to the decline of American manufacturing; and our present problems.
Changing back to a gold standard does NOT mean that we would all have to walk around with bags of heavy gold coins. What it WOULD mean is that the Government would no longer be able to simply "print" limitless volumes of money and thus "suck" the life-blood from people's paychecks and savings accounts to pay for runaway deficit spending. It would mean that there would now be a REASON to save money, rather than to buy everything on credit -- because $100 saved now would NOT lose its "value" during a year or even a decade, and as a "guarantee" of that, individuals who chose to save in terms of actual gold could simply do so. It wouldn't be necessary to "earn interest" by keeping the cash in the bank.
This would require a dramatic change in most people's daily "economic" lives, to be sure, and it might be painful for a year or two, but eventually the benefits would be phenomenally improved economy, a controlled (and significantly reduced) government, and most probably a vast reduction in the corruption by bureaucrats.
Without writing a whole book, that is the jist of why Gold is important, and while "Tricky Dick" Nixon really screwed us all back in 1971 (although it can be argued that it was really LBJ's policies and 1960's Federal Reserve inflation that forced Nixon's hand).
Hope that helps.
Dr. Ron Paul advocates competition among money issuers
Dr. Ron Paul advocates competition among money issuers:
"It is not really my position to close the Fed down. It would require too much adjustment to do that overnight. I advocate competing currencies--to legalize another currency that we can work in. That means repealing legal tender laws and repealing all taxes on gold and silver. If people want to use another money, then they can, and if not they can use paper." -- Ron Paul
Source: "Can We Bank on the Federal Reserve?"
http://www.reason.com/news/show/38384.html
(quite interesting, BTW - the experts are Milton Friedman, Ron Paul, James Grant, Bryan Caplan, Jeff Saut)
It is important to differentiate between Ron Paul's proposal and the gold standard - here's why:
"Golden Straw Man"
http://cafehayek.typepad.com/hayek/2007/03/golden_straw_ma.html
Here are various sources on this and related topics in general:
"Hayek's Plan for Private Money"
http://www.mises.org/story/1854
"Hayek and the Revival of Free Banking"
[Word Document] http://www.tau.ac.il/~june/Hayek.doc
"Currency Competition: Some Options Considered"
http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/econn/econn059.pdf
"The Failure of State Money and the Case for Monetary Individualism"
http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/econn/econn035.pdf
"Monetary Policy and the Free Market"
http://www.mises.org/story/1341
"Denationalisation of Money. Friedrich Hayek's seminal work on Competing Private Currencies."
http://www.maxmore.com/hayek.htm
"Free Banking"
http://iang.org/free_banking/
"Laissez-faire Money or Free Banking"
http://www.ccsindia.org/ccsindia/images/first_chapter_mmm.pdf
"Who Cares About Digital Money?"
http://www.chyp.com/PubWebFiles/DigMoney/3_2000/birch.pdf
"What Has Government Done to Our Money?"
http://www.mises.org/money.asp
A case for Gold
It's a book he co-wrote in the early 80's
Mike
Ron Paul is my HERO!!!
Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom"
visit www.mikeandjake.com
The Mystery of Banking.
If you have time read this. It really helped my understanding of gold, money, and the Federal Reserve system. Unfortunatly it depressed the hell out of me.
http://www.mises.org/Books/mysteryofbanking.pdf
a good article
I came across this article while searching "gold-backed world currencies." I think the Swiss franc is the only one ,now. If anyone can expand on this, then great.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_02/parks101402.html
Central banks, banks and the war
When the gold standard was abandoned, central banks were the last barrier to rampant money creation as long as they were able to maintain their independence. However, in the meantime we have learned from bitter experience just how ineffective these so-called keepers of stability were. An excellent example for this is the U.S. Federal Reserve in 1913. This fateful institution was founded even before the war. Since, the dollar has plummeted to about five per�cent of its former value. Central bank independence was not what it was cut out to be. Central banks became compliant pawns of governments and their constituent banks. In today�s non-system, it is precisely central banks that, in conjunction with banks, make financing of wars of adventure possible by means of unlimited credit formation. There are no brakes anymore.
In his book Jenseits von Angebot und Nachfrage (The Social Crisis of Our Time) economist Wilhelm R�pke said: �One can venture the claim that governments very rarely had complete control over their currency without abusing it.� In today�s age of the welfare state, the probability of such an abuse is greater than ever before.
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Gold
I have not heard about him wanting to let other companies use fiat currency. I do know that he wants to allow gold and silver to trade as a competing currency to the Federal Reserve Notes (dollars) that we currently use. The though being that everyone would want to use money that is actually worth something and not the worthless paper that we have now. Companies do basically have their own fiat currency now, bonds and commercial paper, the value or dependability of which is based upon the company's credit rating. Still these debt instruments are still denominated in dollars. I think that the return to a gold standard would be great. Imagine going to buy a car (currently valued at 15,000) and paying $353 in gold (about 17 ounces). Since the American Gold Eagle (1 oz gold) has a face value of $20, you could in theory do that today. Give the dealer 17 ounces of gold and pay taxes on the face value of the purchase price in gold. The gold is actually worth $15,000 in Federal Reserve notes (at today's prices).
John
eGold and Liberty Dollar
> I do know that he wants to allow gold and
> silver to trade as a competing currency to
> the Federal Reserve Notes (dollars) that we
> currently use.
eGold and the Liberty Dollar are already competing, right?
dual monetary system
there was another thread on this forum called "dual monetary system." this struck me as the best recent debate here on Ron Paul's economic policy. simply, there are anti-trust laws against corporate monopolies, though that is precisely what the Fed is - an illegal monopoly on this nation's banks ruled by the whim of foreign interests. the "gold thing" is a practical solution to rampant government corruption that is invited by fiat currency.
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Canada Loves Ron Paul
gold and silver coins are minted correct?
I maybe incorrect but didnt ron get a bill through already upon request of the treasury they can mint as many gold and silver coins as requested?
I think there is about 400 billion in hard assets for the US on record.
i believe this gets into metals(gold, silver, etc), oil, land, and a few other items who value is completely a supply/demand side model.
Too bad we didnt put all of Soc Security onto this std today.
With such a hybrid system the buying power of the seniors would go up and up and the system would be secure forever.
We could then do as paul stated and throw out the income tax once the 2009 budget were cut back to a sain plan
Okay You want his real thoughts???
Take the time and read the entire speech by the Honorable Ron Paul. This is his speech before the house of Representatives in 2005. Everything he says is true. Take the time and read it. This will give you some background on how and why RP thinks this way.
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2006/cr021506.htm
After reading it, please re-read the bottom. He states that
..."The economic law that honest exchange demands only things of real value as currency cannot be repealed. The chaos that one day will ensue from our 35-year experiment with worldwide fiat money will require a return to money of real value. We will know that day is approaching when oil-producing countries demand gold, or its equivalent, for their oil rather than dollars or Euros. The sooner the better."
smart guy
Ron Paul runs an economic think tank and widely espouses the views of Nobel prize winners.
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Canada Loves Ron Paul
WOW
That article was one of the best things I have ever read. Ron Paul is a genius and the only candidate worthy to be president. I guarantee no other candidate knows half that stuff, and if they do they are purely evil for continuing on their current course.
Whats hard to understand
Whats hard to understand about it? Sorry i dont know why its hard to grasp. I will try to make this simple.
Printing paper money, that has no backing, means its worthless paper. The only thing that makes it worth anything, is that people are putting their trust in the government. If you lose that trust, then the money loses its value. Of course the more money you print, the less it becomes worth. This causes inflation, and the devaluation of the dollar. Thats why a dollar today is only worth about 4 cents of the dollar 100 years ago.
With Gold backing, for each dollar you print, you have to the equivilent gold in order to print it. The money can always be exchanged for gold or silver, or whatever else your using to back it. Someone else can correct me if i am wrong, but this was the system we had in place up until the 1950s i believe. So in answer to your question, no its not unrealistic. Considering our current system is only about 50 years old, and our money was backed by gold for about the first 200 years of history.
"Its time for a new Revolution! Ron Paul 2008"
"You don't gain much by being angry. I see this more as an intellectual, philosophical fight than a political, personality fight." - Ron Paul
It's not hard to grasp.
I just want someone to confirm if Ron Paul WANTS to back the dollar by gold or not.
I understand the arguments in favor, but I cannot get a clear confirmation if this is what he wants to do. I personally believe that actually doing this would be a task of monumental proportions and I don't actually imagine this is what he is suggesting.
Some people are saying he wants to allow other currencies, which ARE backed by gold or silver, but I have pointed out that this is already happening - eGold and the Liberty Dollar are both hard money currencies.
So what is Ron Paul suggesting?
And if I remember correctly
Didn't the old dollar certificates state that it would be payable in gold or silver on the top as a bearer instrument. Now all it says at the top is "federal reserve note". Yeah that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling!
Ron Paul is not for "going back to the gold standard"
Ron Paul also is NOT for allowing companies to make their own fiat money... he is for allow gold and silver etc to compete as currency.
False. He has said he wants
False. He has said he wants to go FORWARD to a gold standard. He does not want to let gold and silver simply compete with FedRes notes, because he wants to abolish the Fed Reserve. It's an unconstitutional entity and it's immoral. If they were abolished, there would be no use for Fed Res notes.
Zachary Hensley
Philosophy Dept
University of Iowa
How is "Fiat" Money Tenable?
What I'm amazed at is all the people who throw their hands up and run around acting like a gold standard is stupid, but they accept as "sane" a system where a bunch of a-holes sit in a boardroom, pull interest rates out of their a$$es, and print money to back it up out of thin air. That just goes to show how out-of-touch economic education in this country really is, and why todays dollar is worth $0.04 in 1913 dollars.
Dr Paul has introduced the concept of U.S. Gold and Silver backed "competing" currencies, but I haven't heard him say companies could do it, and I doubt he did say that since the Constitution puts coining of money with the Federal Government.
There is a more "purist" libertarian theory that would allow companies to create currency, and you'd choose which companies' currencies you trusted as an individual, but I haven't heard Dr. Paul comment on that theory.
> What I'm amazed at is all
> What I'm amazed at is all the people who
> throw their hands up and run around acting
> like a gold standard is stupid
So, he IS suggesting backing the dollar with gold?
> Dr Paul has introduced the concept of U.S. Gold
> and Silver backed "competing" currencies
Liberty Dollar and eGold are already on the market. What would change with Paul?
If you invest in gold
and it appreciates, you're taxed on capital gains. Ron Paul wants that removed.
He is suggesting that there be competing notes. Current federal reserve notes, and notes backed by gold and/or silver. It would be completely up to you as an individual on whether you chose to accept federal reserve notes, gold notes, silver notes, etc.
Higher capital gains rate
Not only do you pay capital gains tax if your gold appreciates, but you pay a 28% rate instead of 15%. Execrable.
legal tender laws
I beleive one thing that would change are the legal tender laws that REQUIRE people to accept Fed funny money. As I understand it, you could not today enter into a contract that requires that you be paid in, for example, gold.