per heritage foundation 1999/2000 year budget =1.7 to 1.9 trillion depending on adjustment to inflation to determine real numbers
Goal=1.247 Trillion dollar income tax ended for 2008 and beyond
Total request budget 2.9 Trillion for 2008
Current budget able to support 2.6 trillion
12 steps to getting rid of 1.247 Trillion income tax:
1) cut out the 240 billion for iraq
2) cut out 360 billion for oversees bases in germany, japan, south korea, etc. leave strategic launching bases but bring back the money to US and for modernizing the military planes, missile defense, etc. increase soldier pay and get more special forces.
3) Put in mirror tax like VAT to stop 200 billion dollar traid deficit due to other nations not using free trade while we do. savings 260 billion
4) put social security on hard assets std(gold, silver, platinum, oil, land, etc)--creating ability to get people off as value goes up in assets and getting large return on hard assets investments allowing 200 billion a year reduction in Soc Sec. taxes
5) Non-Military/National Security Discretionary currently 358; cut 100 billion to fix the homeland security mess and stream line it.
6) Negotiate and build foreign prisons for criminal illegals and empty 1/3 of the US prison space saving 1B a year and putting strong deterant into the border security infrastructure.
Savings=1.1 Trillion dollars
You can then either cut another 147 billion across all budgets or target waste inside of each budget...sure you can find it:)
OR
Current debt interest 2008=261 Billion of 9 Trillion in debt
Paying down this debt with the surplus would get rid of the debt. Starting with dangerous holders such as China in the first year since they could hurt our economy. As this occurred the dollar would go up in value, jobs would increase, tax roles would increase and the debt interest would drop.
By the end of Ron's 2nd term their would be at least 1.36Trillion of total savings for the following presidents budget. The Tax coffers would be much increased from income, capital gains and corporate rev. As Ron's last act in his 2nd term he could permanently do away with the income tax. This would give him the time to put in all needed processes to make this major achievement stable for next 1000 years.
Anyhow..not hard to do..same as Ron suggested..just cant stick you head in the sand and ask people with no vision to figure this out in washington or the press.
The information about the supposed "shortfall" is factually incorrect as it does not take into account that Dr. Ron Paul wants to withdraw from Iraq - as soon as safely possible - and completely (unlike most of the other candidates - both Democratic and Republican).
In 2006 Joseph Stiglitz, former chief economist of the World Bank and winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics, has suggested the total costs of the Iraq War on the US economy will be $1 trillion in a conservative scenario and could top $2 trillion in a moderate one.
Source:
Linda Bilmes; Joseph Stiglitz (2006). The economic costs of the Iraq war: an appraisal three years after the beginning of the conflict. National Bureau of Research. Retrieved on 2006-08-15.
In 2006 the Congressional Research Service estimated weekly spending at almost $2 billion per week, and that total expenditures have now topped half a trillion dollars.
In 2007 the U.S. Congressional Budget Office estimates $2.4 trillion long-term war costs:
"The U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost taxpayers a total of $2.4 trillion by 2017"
"CBO estimated that between 2008 and 2017, the wars could cost slightly more than $1 trillion, assuming overall troop strength is cut to 75,000 by 2013."
Hence, even _completely_ _ignoring_ all the other proposed sources of savings - problem is solved. Furthermore, when we actually include these, it seems that in fact Ron Paul Faces Budget Surplus! :-)
There fact checker has some flaws
About the Obama not puting his hand over his heart in Iowa the link above calls the claim false,however if you go to snopes ,they have abc video of the whole event and you can clearly see its true,
The washington post has no credability
—
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep (own) and bear (carry) arms is ,as a last resort ,to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-Thomas Jefferson
Submitted by quiltingsando on Thu, 11/08/2007 - 15:37.
Are you a Troll? I think Dr. Paul has a better understanding of the nations
fiscal problems than all the other candidates combined in either party.
The nation is likely going to be in a full blown recession before the elections even take place. I for one would want Dr. Paul at the helm trying to steer us out of this perfect financial storm.
—
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
Submitted by ColonelGlover on Thu, 11/08/2007 - 18:19.
Me?
No, I've met him twice, participated in Nov. 5 and often hold signs on my own time next to the mall during rush hours and talk to people about Paul whenever I get the chance. Intellectual honesty requires we examine the argument.
Submitted by MichiganJack on Thu, 11/08/2007 - 15:37.
Apparently Ron Paul used a one-third figure last year to describe the ratio of income tax to federal revenue. But he wasn't a candidate then; he is now, and I heard him use a figure of 43% this year. Not sure why that changed, but I'm sure the campaign or Dr. Paul can explain if given the chance. And the fact checker seems to be giving them that chance, at least for now. But the line "it took us about five minutes" reeks of bias.
Submitted by liberty4us on Thu, 11/08/2007 - 15:33.
I don't know whose numbers are right. That is not the point. The fact that it is now being discussed and maybe refuted will reveal how plausible it is to end the income tax. If RP is off by even $200B then that will open the debate as to how to close that gap and get rid of this stupid tax. We have never had this debate it is a good start.
—
_________________
Want Ron Paul? Register Republican Now
Submitted by ......... on Thu, 11/08/2007 - 15:19.
about this discrepancy for some time, but figured I'd let it be till it was raised. I think more research is needed. Either way, even if the comparable year would be around 1995 that shouldn't make the point of his argument have any less weight. It only means cut more spending and/or redirecting where revenue comes from.
YOUR calculations are ignoring the tariffs that have been eliminated since 2000.
Plus returning to the actual collection of passenger duties (now you have to almost argue with Customs to get them to take your money) would add millions of dollars to the government coffers.
Go back to your calculations and put those income producers back into the mix and you will see that Ron Paul is not that much off.
Also cutting out the "it's the end of the fiscal year so send in your wish list so we can buy buy buy" attitude of federal agencies would almost take care of a big chunk of the budget.
And return to realistic bond amounts and fines for illegal aliens instead of the small or zero amounts now, would increase public funding without a personal income tax.
Posted by: Stephen Coffman | November 8, 2007 09:23 AM
I was just thinking about this hit piece that you posted on Dr Paul. And the thing that the washington post is not taking into account is the size of the federal government now. They are saying, with the size of the government now, we cannot afford it without income tax , even if we cut our spending overseas. Yet, as Dr Paul has said repeatedly, he would like to cut a lot of the spending here as well, that means elminating a lot of federal programs and departments, which would dramatically reduce the cost and size of the federal government, making it possible not to have a federal income tax.
"Its time for a new Revolution! Ron Paul 2008"
—
"You don't gain much by being angry. I see this more as an intellectual, philosophical fight than a political, personality fight." - Ron Paul
Submitted by mustang302 on Thu, 11/08/2007 - 15:09.
Heres a tidbit of what the washington post says:
Ok Paulites, we hear you. Your man has not been getting enough MSM attention. A candidate needs at least three Pinocchios from the Fact Checker to be taken seriously in the 2008 campaign. Now that Paul has raised more money on-line in a single day than any other candidate in the current election cycle, he deserves a good, hard look from the fact-checking fraternity. So what have we got?
The Facts
It took us about five minutes to find a questionable statement from the good doctor. We began with last week's Leno interview, which can be found on You Tube here. Expounding on his proposal for abolishing the income tax, Paul claims this would still leave the U.S. Treasury with roughly the revenues it had in 2000, in the final year of the Clinton administration. A post on the Paul campaign website explains that individual income taxes account for "approximately one third of federal revenue."
Unfortunately for the tax slashers, the one-time Libertarian candidate for president is wrong on both counts. According to the Congressional Budget Office, individual income taxes represent between 45 and 49 percent of federal tax revenues, depending on the year. For financial year 2007, total receipts from individual income tax were in the region of $1.1 trillion dollars. If you eliminated all that revenue, the federal budget would shrink to the size it was around 1995.
Remarks: If they are correct, does it really matter if its the year 2000 or 1995 anyway? I think not...
mustang, can you please tell me how much is collected annually through the illegal income tax? also, can you please tell me what amount is paid to the many employees of the irs? hmmmm kind of balances out?
Submitted by chrismatthews on Thu, 11/08/2007 - 15:35.
I fact checked the fact checker independently. After due dilligence i sent this email
Thanks for the write up. According to the omb, individual income tax accounted for 45% of total estimated receipts for 2007.
After fact checking your fact check, i have to concur with your conclusion. If you take the estimated receipts for 2007 and subtract the individual income tax contribution, you are looking at 1995 receipts not 2000.
As a Paul supporter, i endorse your facts.
There could well be a discrepancy between the available administrative budget and a unified budget though, and i wonder if Paul is basing his information from a unified budget. Any chance you could look further into that issue?
There is room for debate on his facts as well, you could at least add in the admin cost of the IRS, which to my knowledge isn't itemized in the omb or cbo numbers. But based on omb he's actually being a tad gentle, with a more exact critique putting us between 94 and 95 receipts.
As far as the discretionary spending knock, he's of course basing that on todays spending, which is immaterial to the point Paul makes of cutting spending, and reinforced by the statement he always follows with when asked what it would take to get rid of the IRS.
His patent response is, "We'd have to redefine the role of government"
So the first critique is founded in fact, with some room for debate, the other is meritless in my view.
I am not scared of debating. I am just saying, why post an article and make no comment? I mean, is he saying he wants to know why, is he looking for an answer, or what?
"Its time for a new Revolution! Ron Paul 2008"
—
"You don't gain much by being angry. I see this more as an intellectual, philosophical fight than a political, personality fight." - Ron Paul
definitely need some help in washington :)
http://www.thebudgetgraph.com/site/index.php?main_page=produ...
2008 budget: 2.9Trillion
per heritage foundation 1999/2000 year budget =1.7 to 1.9 trillion depending on adjustment to inflation to determine real numbers
Goal=1.247 Trillion dollar income tax ended for 2008 and beyond
Total request budget 2.9 Trillion for 2008
Current budget able to support 2.6 trillion
12 steps to getting rid of 1.247 Trillion income tax:
1) cut out the 240 billion for iraq
2) cut out 360 billion for oversees bases in germany, japan, south korea, etc. leave strategic launching bases but bring back the money to US and for modernizing the military planes, missile defense, etc. increase soldier pay and get more special forces.
3) Put in mirror tax like VAT to stop 200 billion dollar traid deficit due to other nations not using free trade while we do. savings 260 billion
4) put social security on hard assets std(gold, silver, platinum, oil, land, etc)--creating ability to get people off as value goes up in assets and getting large return on hard assets investments allowing 200 billion a year reduction in Soc Sec. taxes
5) Non-Military/National Security Discretionary currently 358; cut 100 billion to fix the homeland security mess and stream line it.
6) Negotiate and build foreign prisons for criminal illegals and empty 1/3 of the US prison space saving 1B a year and putting strong deterant into the border security infrastructure.
Savings=1.1 Trillion dollars
You can then either cut another 147 billion across all budgets or target waste inside of each budget...sure you can find it:)
OR
Current debt interest 2008=261 Billion of 9 Trillion in debt
Paying down this debt with the surplus would get rid of the debt. Starting with dangerous holders such as China in the first year since they could hurt our economy. As this occurred the dollar would go up in value, jobs would increase, tax roles would increase and the debt interest would drop.
By the end of Ron's 2nd term their would be at least 1.36Trillion of total savings for the following presidents budget. The Tax coffers would be much increased from income, capital gains and corporate rev. As Ron's last act in his 2nd term he could permanently do away with the income tax. This would give him the time to put in all needed processes to make this major achievement stable for next 1000 years.
Anyhow..not hard to do..same as Ron suggested..just cant stick you head in the sand and ask people with no vision to figure this out in washington or the press.
My Comment
The information about the supposed "shortfall" is factually incorrect as it does not take into account that Dr. Ron Paul wants to withdraw from Iraq - as soon as safely possible - and completely (unlike most of the other candidates - both Democratic and Republican).
In 2006 Joseph Stiglitz, former chief economist of the World Bank and winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics, has suggested the total costs of the Iraq War on the US economy will be $1 trillion in a conservative scenario and could top $2 trillion in a moderate one.
Source:
Linda Bilmes; Joseph Stiglitz (2006). The economic costs of the Iraq war: an appraisal three years after the beginning of the conflict. National Bureau of Research. Retrieved on 2006-08-15.
In 2006 the Congressional Research Service estimated weekly spending at almost $2 billion per week, and that total expenditures have now topped half a trillion dollars.
Source:
http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2006/09...
In 2007 the U.S. Congressional Budget Office estimates $2.4 trillion long-term war costs:
"The U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost taxpayers a total of $2.4 trillion by 2017"
"CBO estimated that between 2008 and 2017, the wars could cost slightly more than $1 trillion, assuming overall troop strength is cut to 75,000 by 2013."
Source:
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN24507537200...
Hence, even _completely_ _ignoring_ all the other proposed sources of savings - problem is solved. Furthermore, when we actually include these, it seems that in fact Ron Paul Faces Budget Surplus! :-)
Here's an opportunity to cosy up to the fair tax people!
Mike
Ron Paul is my HERO!!!
Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom"
visit www.mikeandjake.com
I seriously hope you're
I seriously hope you're kidding. That's a contradiction in terms.
Zachary Hensley
Philosophy Dept
University of Iowa
There fact checker has some
There fact checker has some flaws
About the Obama not puting his hand over his heart in Iowa the link above calls the claim false,however if you go to snopes ,they have abc video of the whole event and you can clearly see its true,
The washington post has no credability
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep (own) and bear (carry) arms is ,as a last resort ,to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-Thomas Jefferson
Are you a Troll?
Are you a Troll? I think Dr. Paul has a better understanding of the nations
fiscal problems than all the other candidates combined in either party.
The nation is likely going to be in a full blown recession before the elections even take place. I for one would want Dr. Paul at the helm trying to steer us out of this perfect financial storm.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
Me? No, I've met him twice,
Me?
No, I've met him twice, participated in Nov. 5 and often hold signs on my own time next to the mall during rush hours and talk to people about Paul whenever I get the chance. Intellectual honesty requires we examine the argument.
Support and Defend the Constitution!
Post figure needs updating
Apparently Ron Paul used a one-third figure last year to describe the ratio of income tax to federal revenue. But he wasn't a candidate then; he is now, and I heard him use a figure of 43% this year. Not sure why that changed, but I'm sure the campaign or Dr. Paul can explain if given the chance. And the fact checker seems to be giving them that chance, at least for now. But the line "it took us about five minutes" reeks of bias.
Welcome the Tax Debate!
I don't know whose numbers are right. That is not the point. The fact that it is now being discussed and maybe refuted will reveal how plausible it is to end the income tax. If RP is off by even $200B then that will open the debate as to how to close that gap and get rid of this stupid tax. We have never had this debate it is a good start.
_________________
Want Ron Paul? Register Republican Now
I've known
about this discrepancy for some time, but figured I'd let it be till it was raised. I think more research is needed. Either way, even if the comparable year would be around 1995 that shouldn't make the point of his argument have any less weight. It only means cut more spending and/or redirecting where revenue comes from.
Here
are the exact figures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget%2C...
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy07/browse.html
I can cut and paste, too
YOUR calculations are ignoring the tariffs that have been eliminated since 2000.
Plus returning to the actual collection of passenger duties (now you have to almost argue with Customs to get them to take your money) would add millions of dollars to the government coffers.
Go back to your calculations and put those income producers back into the mix and you will see that Ron Paul is not that much off.
Also cutting out the "it's the end of the fiscal year so send in your wish list so we can buy buy buy" attitude of federal agencies would almost take care of a big chunk of the budget.
And return to realistic bond amounts and fines for illegal aliens instead of the small or zero amounts now, would increase public funding without a personal income tax.
Posted by: Stephen Coffman | November 8, 2007 09:23 AM
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Tarrifs are not free trade
Bad idea
Realtor for Ron Paul
I was just thinking about
I was just thinking about this hit piece that you posted on Dr Paul. And the thing that the washington post is not taking into account is the size of the federal government now. They are saying, with the size of the government now, we cannot afford it without income tax , even if we cut our spending overseas. Yet, as Dr Paul has said repeatedly, he would like to cut a lot of the spending here as well, that means elminating a lot of federal programs and departments, which would dramatically reduce the cost and size of the federal government, making it possible not to have a federal income tax.
"Its time for a new Revolution! Ron Paul 2008"
"You don't gain much by being angry. I see this more as an intellectual, philosophical fight than a political, personality fight." - Ron Paul
Washington Post Babble....
Heres a tidbit of what the washington post says:
Ok Paulites, we hear you. Your man has not been getting enough MSM attention. A candidate needs at least three Pinocchios from the Fact Checker to be taken seriously in the 2008 campaign. Now that Paul has raised more money on-line in a single day than any other candidate in the current election cycle, he deserves a good, hard look from the fact-checking fraternity. So what have we got?
The Facts
It took us about five minutes to find a questionable statement from the good doctor. We began with last week's Leno interview, which can be found on You Tube here. Expounding on his proposal for abolishing the income tax, Paul claims this would still leave the U.S. Treasury with roughly the revenues it had in 2000, in the final year of the Clinton administration. A post on the Paul campaign website explains that individual income taxes account for "approximately one third of federal revenue."
Unfortunately for the tax slashers, the one-time Libertarian candidate for president is wrong on both counts. According to the Congressional Budget Office, individual income taxes represent between 45 and 49 percent of federal tax revenues, depending on the year. For financial year 2007, total receipts from individual income tax were in the region of $1.1 trillion dollars. If you eliminated all that revenue, the federal budget would shrink to the size it was around 1995.
Remarks: If they are correct, does it really matter if its the year 2000 or 1995 anyway? I think not...
see my post
below
irs
mustang, can you please tell me how much is collected annually through the illegal income tax? also, can you please tell me what amount is paid to the many employees of the irs? hmmmm kind of balances out?
What was the point in
What was the point in posting this article? If you are going to post something why dont you comment on it?
"Its time for a new Revolution! Ron Paul 2008"
"You don't gain much by being angry. I see this more as an intellectual, philosophical fight than a political, personality fight." - Ron Paul
i don't know what his point is
but the colonel is right to make it (huh?)
what i mean is, it's a good item to discuss, in fact it's MANDATORY.
This guy has thrown down the gauntlet. We've gotta refute it if we can.
The Wapo guy has a point. Wnat to be in the big time? ok, take the heat.
We've gotta have an answer for this guy.
Look, he's actually doing us a favor. It's a slo mo debate.
We're scared of getting locked out of debates, and we're gonna run away from THIS one?
A couple of points
I fact checked the fact checker independently. After due dilligence i sent this email
Thanks for the write up. According to the omb, individual income tax accounted for 45% of total estimated receipts for 2007.
After fact checking your fact check, i have to concur with your conclusion. If you take the estimated receipts for 2007 and subtract the individual income tax contribution, you are looking at 1995 receipts not 2000.
As a Paul supporter, i endorse your facts.
There could well be a discrepancy between the available administrative budget and a unified budget though, and i wonder if Paul is basing his information from a unified budget. Any chance you could look further into that issue?
There is room for debate on his facts as well, you could at least add in the admin cost of the IRS, which to my knowledge isn't itemized in the omb or cbo numbers. But based on omb he's actually being a tad gentle, with a more exact critique putting us between 94 and 95 receipts.
As far as the discretionary spending knock, he's of course basing that on todays spending, which is immaterial to the point Paul makes of cutting spending, and reinforced by the statement he always follows with when asked what it would take to get rid of the IRS.
His patent response is, "We'd have to redefine the role of government"
So the first critique is founded in fact, with some room for debate, the other is meritless in my view.
I am not scared of debating.
I am not scared of debating. I am just saying, why post an article and make no comment? I mean, is he saying he wants to know why, is he looking for an answer, or what?
"Its time for a new Revolution! Ron Paul 2008"
"You don't gain much by being angry. I see this more as an intellectual, philosophical fight than a political, personality fight." - Ron Paul