Really tricky Real ID in Pennsylvania
Using FaceExplorer software, Pennsylvania DOT (PennDOT) is in process of implementing Real ID biometrics from existing and renewal drivers license (DL) photos. The catch is that the camera shot must capture both eyes for the software to work.
I regret to inform that someone has told me that there is case law that supports PennDOT's power to not issue DL's if an applicant refuses to open his or her eyes. The case is Billy A. Reed, Petitioner v. Department of Transportation, Respondent, No. 1704 C.D. 2004, Submitted January 7, 2005. Here is a link to the Court's Opinion and Order: http://www.courts.state.pa.us/OpPosting/CWealth/out/1704CD04....
If you manage to foil the biometrics, PennDOT will send you the below letter. The word "ERROR" will be used twice in the first paragraph because it is a form letter used to communicate that another state has told PennDOT that it has suspended your DL. In other words, PennDOT will lie to you.
_______________________________
Dear Motorist:
Your right to apply for a driver's license or learner's permit is being denied due to information received from the State of ERROR indicating that your driving privileges are suspended. This denial is authorized by Section 1572 of the Vehicle Code. You will not be able to apply for a driver's license or learner's permit until sufficient proof of restoration is received from the State of ERROR.
In order to comply with this sanction you are required to return any current driver's license, learner's permit and/or temporary driver's license (camera card) in your possession no later than the effective date listed. If you cannot comply with the requirements stated above, you are required to submit a DL16LC Form or a sworn affidavit stating that you are aware of the sanction against your driving privilege. Failure to comply with this notice shall result in this Bureau referring this matter to the Pennsylvania State Police for prosecution under SECTION 1571(a)(4) of the Vehicle Code.
WHEN THE DEPARTMENT RECEIVES YOUR LICENSE OR ACKNOWLEDGMENT, WE WILL SEND YOU A RECEIPT. IF YOU DO NOT RECEIVE THIS RECEIPT WITHIN 15 DAYS CONTACT THE DEPARTMENT IMMEDIATELY. OTHERWISE, YOU WILL NOT BE GIVEN CREDIT TOWARD SERVING THIS SANCTION.
The effective date of cancellation is 11/04/2008, 12:01 a.m.
You have the right to appeal the Department's action to the Court of Common Pleas (Civil Division) within 30 days of the mail date (SEPTEMBER 30, 2008) of this notice. You must still send in your license before the effective date of cancellation unless you appear in person before a Judge and receive an order permitting you to continue to drive.
(end)
_______________________________
Now we look at the first-mentioned statute:
Sec. 1572 (http://members.aol.com/StatutesP4/75PA1572.html) reads:
§ 1572. Cancellation of driver's license.
(a) General rule.--
1. The department may cancel any driver's license upon determining that one of the following applies:
1. The licensee was not entitled to the issuance.
2. The person failed to give the required or correct information or committed fraud in making the application or in obtaining the license.
3. The license has been materially altered.
4. The fee has not been paid.
5. The licensee voluntarily surrenders his driving privilege.
2. Upon the cancellation, the licensee shall immediately surrender the canceled license to the department.
PennDOT will appear to be claiming 1 and/or 2; that the State of ERROR advised PennDOT that State of ERROR had suspended your driving privileges. Note that PennDOT doesn't have to make a correct determination, just a determination. They'll send you this "State of ERROR" letter even if you're only renewing your DL and have lived in PA your entire life.
Of course, it will be impossible for the State of ERROR to submit to PennDOT "sufficient proof of restoration" since there is no other state DL, no suspension in any such other state and because State of ERROR doesn't exist except for tax-eating bureaucrats.
Now we look at the other mentioned statute:
Sec. 1571(a)(4) (http://members.aol.com/StatutesP1/75PA1571.html) reads:
§ 1571. VIOLATIONS CONCERNING LICENSES
(a) Offenses defined.--It is unlawful for any person:
4. To fail or refuse to surrender to the department upon lawful demand a recalled, canceled, suspended, revoked, disqualified, fictitious or fraudulently altered driver's license.
Hmm, okay, this statute means that you are in violation of law if you don't surrender your DL upon LAWFUL PennDOT demand. Whether it's lawful for them to make a demand even if they're lying through their teeth is irrelevant. The clear strategy is for PennDOT to seize DL's where FaceExplorer failed and thereby require the person to reapply / retake a photo.
In conclusion, you either turn in your DL and forget about driving or you appeal PennDOT's decision in the Court of Common Pleas.
Any PA attorneys out there who can offer me some advice? Can I simply go into Court and say, "Yo, Judge, there is no State of Error. Please dismiss so we can get a cheesesteak from Jim's." Is it enough for me to testify that I have resided in the Commonwealth of PA since 1988 and have had only PA DL's during such time; i.e., does the State have to prove their case or do I have to disprove it? What are my options? Do I need an attorney for something like this?
The person who is pulling this stunt is Lori Klinger, Manager of Photo Licensing, Bureau of Drivers Licensing, PennDOT, Harrisburg, PA 17123. May Santa send her a package of human excrement for Christmas.
Yours very truly,
Schvenzlerman!





















If anyone gets a letter
Can we get another lawyer supported protest, or a class action lawsuit against PennDot?
I'll second the schevelemen (sp?) for congress!
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
so it begins
Sanctions on the American people. Well the government just gave the DHS some of your tax dollars to help implement this program in a time when they are talking about a great depression.
SEC. 547. For grants to States pursuant to section
Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act relating to
Hurricane Katrina of 2005 or Hurricane Rita of 2005.
204(a) of the REAL ID Act of 2005 (division B of Public
Law 109-13), $50,000,000, to remain available until expended.
In addition, for developing an information sharing
and verification capability with States to support implementation
of the REAL ID Act, $50,000,000, to remain
available until expended: Provided, That none of the funds
provided in this section for development of the information--S~0:~9(k~oY\,
beetl}H~lo~ system ,-knO"v'ffl: a~ the "REAL ID ~,(shall e...
be available to create any new system of records from the
data accessible by such information technology system, or
to create any means of access by Federal agencies to such
information technology system other than to fulf.i1l responsibilities
pursuant to the REAL ID Act of 2005.
That was inluded in the bill they just passed.This is the bill
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:H.R.2638:
Keep in mind while you are worried about a picture they are having you put your eyes to a machine to take a vision test you don't think they would lie and retrieve you eye scan without you knowledge. better think again.
Schvenzlerman
Schvenzlerman for congress! Schvenzlerman for congress! Schvenzlerman for congress!
Congressman Schvenzlerman..... rolls right off the tongue......
I have been thinking about
I have been thinking about this and what if one was to wear colored contact lenses? Would this block the retinal scan?
Awesome Info!
My License expires in a few months I can't wait to try this out!
A Guy I know never even had his Pic taken,
he made an argument on Religious grounds and walked away with a
Black square where his face should be!!
Can't wait to join the club.
Maybe I'll wear a Geordi La Forge Visor....
Too tricky for words..
Too tricky for words..
schvenzlerman
sorry I can't help you with this :( look's like the daily paul need to network some lawyers to our side! but here's a bump!