"its time to shout 'Liberty!' again in the United States," Chavez said
Submitted by Stinkhammer on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 09:21
Let the U.S. empire end and let a great nation and great republic rise from the ruin ... It's time to shout 'Liberty!' again in the United States," Chavez said, calling for a new government to be free of the "dictatorship of theelite" such as big banks and corporations.
oh boy. we may bomb Chavez now, spreading evil doer speak
»
"The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"
Has anybody ever seen this Chavez documentary: "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"?
It's on google video. I could see this as a pro-Chavez propaganda piece, but it is a very VERY intriguing film nonetheless. It follows the CIA coup and the censorship of the media, etc.
The ending is unbelievable. I suggest you all watch it - whether you're for or against the man.
so our dictators are on our
so our dictators are on our side of freedom....hhhmmmmm, I guess freedom brings people together, lol.
What is really telling to me is these crooks in the white house are showing thier faces and how eveil they are. Banks and cooperations.
Are we fearing the govt?
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
Screw Chavez - he wouldn't know liberty
if he fell on it.
He is just trying to stir crap.
What kind of Govenment is Chaves in?
Dictator, socialist, imperialist or?
HUMANIST
Discover Costa Rica
Discover Costa Rica
wrong. Socialism is immoral
wrong. Socialism is immoral and one of the least humanitarian ideologies on the face of the planet. It is responsible for more deaths than any other.
To answer the question he is trying to create a socialist dictatorship, but the people in Venezuela are extremely unhappy with him. Even many of the poor, who were his primary supporters, have turned against him after he tried to get the Constitution changed to allow him to be free of term limits.
Everywhere you go down there Vota Si is crossed out. Nobody wants that guy any more. They see that socialism doesn't work.
I wonder if you ... neoconned ... have ever lived outside the US
Maybe you should before judging the motives of others who strive to live a more equitable life. I also wonder if you have ever been hungry or even seen poverty ?
Your "NEOCONNED alright.
Dr. Paul does NOT support munipulated markets...nor munipulated elections bringing in people like we have in our government. Hugo Chavez
was elected by 80+% of the population. Do people have the right to elect the form of government they desire to live under and the leader they desire to oversee that form of government ?
Or do we let the CIA & FBI decide for us all what is what and who is who ? I'm afraid your nor only neo-conned...your brainwashed too.
Discover Costa Rica
Discover Costa Rica
I have LIVED in venezuela
I have LIVED in venezuela man. I lived in poverty in my youth here in the US and I have actually been homeless at one point in my adult life so please spare me the liberal jibberish.
Ron Paul does not support manipulated markets, which is EXACTLY what socialism brings to the table. Hugo Chavez was elected by less than 80% of the population and most of that support is now gone. He has shown himself to aspire towards dictatorship and most people there realize they were wrong in supporting him. He has a low approval rating there and will be out of office when this term is over.....unless he does what many are anticipating and just takes control illegally.
A more equitable life ? Who defines equitable ?
Also, you are wrong about the 80%, the 2004 election was 59 % - 41 %, with some questions as to fairness. http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=3...
Plus The motion which included the provision to allow indefinite presidential re-election was voted down in national referendum in 2007.
So no, the FBI and CIA should not be involved, but just because the Neocons and NWO don't like someone doesn't mean that that person is good. Chavez' care about the poor is caca, he is a lying demagogue, and evidenced by his lack of success in helping poverty in his country, while at the same time getting involved with Colombias internal issues.
I'm with you up until you
I'm with you up until you mentioned Colombia. Colombia needs to stay out of other peoples internal issues.. say Ecuador.
Yes, I lived in Ecuador.
Thank you ironman. Chavez is
Thank you ironman. Chavez is not liked much in venezuela any more. I can attest to that fact first hand.
Parasitic capitalism...Oligarchical corporatism...call it
what you will...it is sinful and evil. When people are unable to feed their families due to corrupt market munipulations...then it is the DUTY of their government to intervene. Or for them to rise up in arms !
Example...
Rice come in 3 different presentations...80/20...90/10...and 97/3. The 80/20 is the standard for low income families ( about 85% of the sales nationally ). The government ONLY regulated the price of the 80/20 quality and allowed the rice mafia to charge what they could get for the other classes. Sounds ok huh ?
Well what did the companies who monopolize the rice market do...they pulled almost all of the 80/20 out of the market FORCING the poorest people in the country to purchase the higher cost product at double or triple the price justified !!!!!!
Thankfully the scam was discovered and corrected...all rice is now regulated as it should be. This goes to show that "free and fair" markets are an illusion. Industries cannot be trusted to be fair or balanced.
Look at the prices we are paying for petroleum products...and damn near all the other products we require to function as families or businesses. Is this the market we wish to have ... 5% or 10% of the richest families running the rest of us into the dirt. Raising the poverty ( and consequently crime ) level to the point that NO ONE IS SAFE OR HEALTHY.
Food...health care...raw materials...etc. are ESSENCIALS to a prosperous community...they cannot be left to MAFIAS or the filthy rich which have NO SOULS.
Discover Costa Rica
Discover Costa Rica
"We hold these truths to be
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all mean are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that amoung these rights are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to SECURE these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just power from the CONSENT of the governed. Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends it is the right of the people to ALTER or ABOLISH it."
The government causes these problems. The government gives power to the "souless rich" and the "MAFIAS" which allows them to behave in such a way.
In your example, what if there were not the regulations on the 80/20 rice? My guess is the regulated price made the margin on the 80/20 rice very small thus excluding all but the largest companies from competing in the market and thus there were no alternatives. In a free market if you charge twice what the rice is worth and there are not regulations hindering competition then soon you'll have no choice but to lower your price as the competition under sells you.
Economic liberty is the heart of personal liberty. Without the freedom to produce and trade there can be no freedom.
This is all the classic government cycle:
Step 1: Government creates problem
Step 2: Government causes panic
Step 3: Government offers "heroic" solution to their problem
Step 4: People say "If only we had more government"
Step 5: Rinse, Lather, Repeat. And viva la tyranny
Interesting...please relate this thinking to the present
situation in the petroleum industry.
Discover Costa Rica
Discover Costa Rica
Huh, imagine that. Price
Huh, imagine that. Price manipulation and extortion is the highest in the markets which have the highest regulations.
Can I go in my back yard and dig an oil well? Nope! But I can "lease" my land and mineral rights to one of the big oil companies who have the regulations in their favor.
Regulations in markets ALWAYS create winners and losers and stifle competition.
We don't need "regulation" we need transparency, prosecution and accountability.
The problems today are a result of regulation which destroyed competition, and the subsequent deregulation of those industries in a narrowed field. Had regulations never been enacted in the first place there would be more competition in the market.
do you mean why prices are
do you mean why prices are so high? If so, please consider that we have pre-emptively attacked and destabilized one of the largest oil suppliers on the planet, are threatening 2 others and are continuously debasing our currency through inflating the money supply to pay for socialism......just for starters......
Not to mention all the regulations on drilling
Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
The correct term you are
The correct term you are looking for is Socialism. That's what you want and the results of ppl not having food is what you get from that sort of ideology.
Then so be it...sticks and stones !
Discover Costa Rica
Discover Costa Rica
?_?
I think you are on the wrong forum. You DO realize that what RonPaul advocates is in direct opposition to your stance correct......why are you even here??
Ya know what...
we are all talking about what Chavez says, wants, bl bla. What do you know but what you have been told ? Mostly by your government,through THIER media. Same as many things that if you REALLY look into are not true.How far does that have to go back for you to get PROOF. POINT is right now we have to save our country! If we still can. If you want to hate Chavez you must at least give him credit for trying to keep his country souvriegn. Do you think maybe he gets bad press here because he wo'nt join the one world banking system?
Just wonder....
How much research have many or ant unbiased Americans done on Chavez and Venezuela? And is it our place to judge ? Is he going around murdering people? Give me the dirt on Chavez.
Who has HE murdered ?
Discover Costa Rica
Discover Costa Rica
America has raped and
America has raped and pillaged South and Central America for centuries. We have overthrown their leaders, and destabilized their homelands.
If Bolivia and Venezuela want to be anti-American socialists, I say it is their right.
Do people have a right to create socialist governments?
I believe the answer if clearly in the negative.
Why?
Because people don't have the right to violate the rights of others. And socialist governments (at minimum) violate the rights of the minority who do not consent to it.
The only type of socialism that doesn't violate someone's rights is non-political (ie. voluntarily) socialism. But this is not the variety the Bolivians and Venezuelans are talking about...
So, socialism is bad because
So, socialism is bad because it takes away the rights of those minorities who do not want socialism?
Ask that homeless veteran sitting in the gutter, no job, no home, no family, no money. Ask him if he wants the capitalist system. Ask the single mother, with 3 kids, whose welfare was just cut. Ask her if capitalism is the best system for her.
There are always dissidents in every system. Who are you, atrickpay and neoconned, to tell people in another country what economic or political system works best for them? Its their decisions. Right around 2000, a little before and a little after, revolutions swept Central and Latin America, revoking the American puppets that had ruled with corporate dictates. The peasants and indigenous people rose up and established a system for themselves.
Just because you dont agree with the results, that doesnt mean you have the right to tell them they are wrong.
a) Yes, I value rights. Thus
a) Yes, I value rights. Thus I think it's bad.
b) That's fine it they don't want the capitalist system and also if they don't think it would be best for them. What's your point?
c) Who am I to tell people in another country what system works best?
I am a student of economics and political philosophy. I'm not going to sit here quietly if I believe that they are going about it completely the wrong way.
d) Yes, it's ultimately their decision. But can I not still try to influence them?
e)
Baloney. Cameron have you ever studied rights theory?
Yes, you are correct.
Yes, you are correct. Socialism is bad because it takes away the rights of the individual for the good of the *collective*. I asked you to watch that video, which Im guessing you did not. So I will link the video to you again as well as an article for you to read.
http://www.rogershermansociety.org/compassionate.htm
Here is an excerpt for you:
"If Obama -- or any other politician, for that matter -- were literally honest about what he is proposing, how much support do you think he would get? "If you elect me, I promise to forcibly deprive you of more of your money, forcibly control and monitor your lives in more ways, and do whatever I can to render you defenseless, helpless, and forever dependent upon and subservient to me and my fellow tyrants." And yet, when today's communists advocate exactly that, but use prettier words, Americans FLOCK to them in droves, wildly cheering for their own enslavement. "
You appear to be a part of this flock and are in direct contradiction with your opinions about everything the Ron Paul Revolution is about. We believe in free market capitalism because we can grasp the bigger picture. With sound money and a free market there would be very little poverty. It is BECAUSE of socialism that we have single mothers with 3 kids living in poverty. We have to keep printing money out of thin air to pay for the war on poverty which continuously drives the price of goods up, which puts more people into poverty. It's a vicious circle and the only escape route is to allow free markets to work.
What we have in the US is NOT free market capitalism and neither is what occurred in South/Central America. That's called Corporatism, which is NOT free market capitalism. Please, go educate yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I
http://www.rogershermansociety.org/compassionate.htm
Larken Rose
has a nice way of putting it. He really cuts away the mystique of the State there.