Does anyone know where all the gold will come from?
Submitted by vickersey on Thu, 11/08/2007 - 21:23
Paul seeks to reinstate the gold standard. Since the Us Government doesnt have any gold to back up the dollar isnt it safe to say that he would have to confiscate privately owned gold. It’s likely that the government could do this ostensibly to reinstate the gold standard.
The basic principles governing the administration of the Gold Acts and Orders,” said the Treasury Department in 1969, “are that gold, as a store of value, can be held only by the government and that private citizens and entities in the United States can acquire gold only for legitimate and customary industrial, professional, and artistic purposes.”
It would not be the first time Gold has been confiscated/.
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Basement of Fed Reserve bank of NY
I seem to remember seeing a documentary on the tremendous hoard of gold bricks piled up in neat stacks deep in the basement of the Federal Reserve Bank of NY. If it were me in the White House, I'd
1) send in the military to sequester this gold, not remove it, but just permanently guard and secure it so that none can be taken out for any reason.
2) begin an investigation on the Fed Reserve
3) when the Fed Fraud is revealed to the public, the public will demand that this be confiscated and placed in Fort Knox
4) Ditto for any other Federal Reserve banks, including all safety deposit boxes. Hey, they just did this to the Liberty Dollar, so there is legal precedent.
If you are not OUTRAGED, you're not paying attention!
I'll post this link again
RP does NOT want to return to the gold standard. Please read>
http://www.nolanchart.com/article290.html
good read!
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat pork!
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat meat!
Any bets
on whether our gold is still in Fort Knox?
I don't have time to read through all the responses, but I think
Ron Paul's actual position is to return America to the Gold Standard. But he has repeated stated that an immediate switch is impossible and would create much chaos in the financial markets worldwide.
What he basically proposes it something like a gradual phase out of the Fed Reserve bank. Gradually eliminating the incredible amount of dollars in circulation worldwide so that a return to the Gold Standard would be actually possible.
This would probably mean a dramatic decrease in the cost of all goods and services, but also a dramatic decrease in wages. All in all, I think we would all be a little bit better off and the Middle Class will begin to recover from the devestation caused by the bubble scam brought on by the Fed Reserve.
Not to mention the elimination of the Income tax, which would greatly improve all of our standard of living. We would no longer be forced to pay an Income tax that goes straight to the Fed Reserve bank to pay the interest on our 9 trillion dollar national debt.
What Ron Paul plans to do is the perfect answer to our economic woes, nationally and individually. It is my hope that he can restore our nation to its former "Land of opportunity and freedom". I hope my post helps!
"It does not take a majority to prevail. But rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." ~Samuel Adams while plotting the Boston Tea Party.
http://disillusionedrants.blogspot.com/
Ron Paul is calling for competing currencies that would include
precious metals. I don't know if you could switch to gold standard overnight, you'd have to introduce competitive currencies first. Because the printing presses have been running without check for so long, a precious metals-backed US Treasury note might have to include platinum in the mix.
However, your suggestion that if we did return to a gold standard, Ron Paul as President, would order the confiscation of gold held by private citizens as FDR did in 1933 is absurd. Seriously, are you really suggesting that? The only candidate who wants to restore private property rights would confiscate privately-owned gold? The only candidate who understands the free market would suddenly take up the policies of the socialist Roosevelt?
I know we're not supposed to feed the trolls, but really.
Gold
There is actually a lot of gold out there (a lot more than we'll ever know about). It also might be possible to manufacture the stuff in the future. I believe that the energy requirements to make it now are prohibitive. If the price of gold goes high enough it might be common for companies to build super-colliders. Of course, individual atoms of gold aren't going to bring much money at this point. My point is to be careful what you wish for. Right now, a gold standard would be wise, but in the future a multi-billionaire could corner the market with an asteroid kept in orbit above our heads.
Drain the swamp!
Good thinking. Yes we could
Good thinking.
Yes we could manufacture gold via "expensive" atomic processes or extract it from sea water in which there is more gold than anyone knows about.
This is expensive also but I have no idea how expensive, but maybe $10,000 gold would make it economic. I don't know.
But this is "the-same-old-crap" as with running out of crude oil which we will never run out of if the price is right.
Jim ODonnell
Jim ODonnell
ya know that...
..if you can manufacture the stuff it ceases to be a viable backing for money, right?
the whole reason the gold standard would work is because it is a rare commodity and isn't able to be created at whim to dilute what's already out there.
Not really
Just because you can manufacture something doesn't make it worthless.
Energy is often traded as a commodity, lots of scifiers like to make it as a currency, would be interesting because the only inflation would be introduced by technology making energy cheaper to produce, but that might be a good thing.. who knows.
This main advantage of such a system is ultimately we wouldn't be permanently in debt to the bankers for creating our money in the first place.
Another system I taught up a while ago would be to take a major stock index, a say make a dollar worth 1/10000 of the DOW for instance and theoretically if you had enough bills you could trade it for a DOW money market share.
Money does not
have to be entirely backed by gold. The Euro when first started was backed by 14,400 metric tons of gold. I believe each Euro was backed by 10% gold. Which made the Euro the choice between it and the dollar which is backed by 0% of gold. So if the Euro was to fall you still have 10% of your money where as of course if the dollar falls, you have 0% of your money left. The dollar needs to be backed by at least 15% gold to hold its own with the Euro, which the government will not do. I for one was looking forward to the Amero which would have been backed by 20% gold, but I guess that is on hold for now.
G_d bless
Attend a Church of your choice this Saturday.
G_d bless
I don't know where did you
I don't know where did you get that information, but the last money backed by gold (in some percent) was the Swiss Franc (until May 1st, 2000) after that sad date, there is no money in the planet known as "Earth" backed by any amount of gold, not even 0.1%
The EURO was never backed by any gold, the European Central Bank has some gold, just as the US Federal Reserve, but non of those gold has anything to do with any money. All money are fiat money today, and if falls, you get nothing. And the worst thing is that in todays global financial market if a dollar falls (or for that matter the EURO or any significant currency) the whole World going to fall at least to some extent, so if the dollar goes down around to $2 for 1 EUR, the politicians will probably make some new "Breton Woods" or something with fixed currency rates, because no economy in this world is able to survive the fall of the dollar.
But it is also interesting that actually the EUR is also going down, the currency rate between the dollar and the EUR doesn't tell us anything about the purchasing power of any of that currency it's telling us just the information of how much EUR could we buy with $1. The purchasing power of the dollar in the US is much higher than the purchasing power of the dollar in the EU. The dollar is low compared to the EUR because the world is full of dollar reserves and they don't need to buy dollars to pay the bills, so the demand for dollars is low, and the supply is high. In the case of the EUR this isn't so bad, but that doesn't mean that the EUR is strong or that the EUR is gaining in value (purchasing power), but quite the opposite, inflation in the EU is very similar to the inflation in the US.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
You are sadly
mistaken. The Euro would never have flown without the gold backing. Please do some reading before making such childish claims.
G_d bless
Attend a Church of your choice this Saturday.
G_d bless
Actually I've read a lot
Actually I've read a lot about this... anyway I would appreciate if you can give me some links or even better some references to serious literature about this.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
Paper
kers- The idea of paper doesnt bother me all that much, it is that the paper is manipulated and the represented value is currupted. The idea of a medium for exchange doesnt seem that unreasonable its the corruption thats the problem. after all can we produce enough gold to act as a medium for purchace. Enough gold for 300 million people not taking into account the rest of the world whose currencies are also peged to the dollar.
kers
Paper Is Just Fine If You Trust The US Treasury
First examine the image on this link:
http://ron-paul-2008.googlegroups.com/web/DOLLAR+GOLD+%24100...
It is a $100,000 Gold Note and it says on the face.
"This is to certify that there is on deposit in the Treasury of the United Sates of America One Hundred Thousand Dollars in gold payable to the bearer on demand as authorized by law."
These were "outlawed" by FDR for private citizens who could no longer hold physical gold lawfully. But prior to that these circulated and were accepted as THE REAL THING namely physical gold.
You could walk into the US Treasury or any bank and exchange it for physical gold coin like a $20 St Gaudens which were in wide circulation but are now considered "rare coins."
But a $100,000 gold note with gold at $20 per ounce would mean 5,000 coins which would weigh 312.5 pounds. That would not fit in my pocket very well. But I could manage somehow if necessary, HA!
Jim ODonnell
Jim ODonnell
Your off a bit on your numbers Jim
The st.Gaudin (or any other twenty dollar gold) contains one TROY oz. There are twelve troy oz. to a pound (not 16). Hence your 5000 coins would weigh slightly over 416 lbs. Bring a wheel barrow!
Like those at Valley Forge, we will never quit!
Like those at Valley Forge, we will never quit!
Revolution
According to the Constitution, the basis for the American Gold Standard, is that gold should be in the hands of the people. This mean that gold coins circulate as currency. So the idea to confiscate for the private sector to back the Federal Reserve Note doesn't enter into the question. So the real question isn't where gold is going to come from, since the Federal Reserve note isn't worth anything. The real question is what to do with all the paper the Federal Reserve is printing. Wallpaper is one idea; or as was done in Germany, note were burnt for keeping their homes warm. I don't expect that we will need to burn notes to keep warm, but they will become worthless and many people will lose. Then we will probably have to start an alternative currency, gold and silver come to mind since it is something our country has a lot of reserves of and can explore. It is countries like England, who have no reserves who love fiat money since they live like leaches off of colonies.We are no longer a colony! Let's take our freedom back once and for all.
grant
that sounds to be reasonable except
kers- that sounds to be reasonable except if the federal government is in debt how is it going to come up with the money to buy the gold off of the "free market". Sounds like a catch 22 if it prints more money then the inhearent value goes down thus the buy back becomes awash. Taxes? That defeats the whole idea of backing the money to save the people the loss. Also wouldnt a run on gold cause other countries who's currency isnt peged to the dollar to do the same? After all the fact that our dollar is worth less is based on the buying power compared with other countries currency. As far as backing with other assets how will that work being that most all other assets are not fluid in value such as gold and silver? Thanks for the answers guys and girls this is a very interesting topic that I had not expected to generate this much attention. When I first posted it about three weeks ago or so I had the hardest time even getting a response and now I see it being brought back up periodicly. Vickersey
kers
Works Like This
The US Treasury "confiscates" from the Federal Reserve Bank all of its assets, and this is just part of getting rid on the FED. It then owns bunches of "already created" shit money which it must exchange for any gold bullion purchased.
True its value may go down a lot in terms of gold, but it will eventually have to pay for all the gold which is needed. In the end on conversion date the old FRN will be exchanged for new Treasury Gold notes worth $1 each which represents say 1 ounce of gold. This will anniliate all FRN at one time.
The question is at what exchange rate will this happen? Who knows? Whether the new gold dollar is worth $100,000 FRN or some other amount only the market will determine this. Of course if the exchange rate is this high they will have to coin or print smaller demoniations, say for the sake of explanation, they issue a one BigMac coin which is equal to 1/25,000 of a regular dollar.
Central banks have no problem at all issuing 8 bazillion dollar notes in times of hyper-inflation. They will have no problem making them smaller either.
In time everyone will get use to the change. Look at all the fools in Euro-land who gave up their currencies for Euros and it only took them a few months to do this.
Jim ODonnell
Jim ODonnell
RP Gold Standard
Ron Paul does NOT want to go back to the gold standard, he is again, being misquoted and mis-understood. This great article explains the gold standard confusion.
http://www.nolanchart.com/article290.html
This is another good example of the misconceptions that people have about Ron Paul. If folks would take a little time and NOT judge him on all of the spin and smears going on out there, people would find that there is no better candidate running for the presidency. That goes for both Democrats and Republicans.
Thanks
We, in effect, already have
We, in effect, already have competing currencies as both US minted Gold and Silver Eagles are available on the market right now at fluctuating prices in terms of FRN.
While it is true that "most" don't know this or how to make such exchanges, there are many who do know. I little story on this subject which happened to me a few years ago. I always keep a US silver Eagle in my pocket along with the crap coins being issued today. While making change at local store my silver dollar slipped out of my hand and dropped to the counter. It went "PING" and not thunk.
The teenage counter girl said, "WOW what is that?" I said a silver dollar and she badly wanted me to take 4 quarters for it so she could keep it herself. I said no that this is a REAL dollar and is worth about $8 [at the time].
She was disappapointed but even she knew it was worth a lot more just by the sound and look of it.
Remember that eventually the economic maxim "Bad money drives out good money" will work in the reverse so that "Good money will drive out bad money" and the government will be forced to back its FRN with gold and silver. It will take time but eventually this will happen as long as we are free.
Jim ODonnell
Jim ODonnell
Your Question Is Not Valid
What you are really asking or saying in the question amounts to, "Jesus, there is so much crap money floating around that there is not enough gold to actually cover all this shit."
Oh yes there is but at what price of gold relative to the Federal Reserve Notes. $5,000 per ounce, $10,000 per ounce ....., or what?
First some history. Gold sold at about $20 per ounce for much of the period of about 1870 to 1910, which was the fastest growth period in the history of the United States. So there was enough gold to cover this growth and at the same time keep the dollar stable in terms of the price of gold.
So it is a red herring to think that a constantly expanding money suppy is required for economic growth, al la Milton Friedman. This was one of his few economic faults.
The question today is, "How can we get from here to there?" Yes, it is true that you cannot overnight convert the FRN to a gold backed currency without tremendous economic problems. But like with all Socialist problems, like SS and wealfare, they need a period of adjustment.
I would suggest that the Treasury should announce that it will acquire all Federal Reserve Notes and back them in full by gold bullion on a date certain, like January 1, 2015 or some date in the future. Implied in this statement is that the Treasury will begin to purchase in the open market qualtities of gold bullion.
What [in my opionion] would be the result to this announcement, I'll list a few:
[1] The current price of gold will jump to some value as a result and no one can guess how much.
[2] The value of the dollar versus other currencies will also increase dramatically at the same time. This will decrease our balance of trade deficit by a lot.
[3] The future rate of interest for the US governenment debt will drop like a rock and save the Treasury tons of interest payments in the future.
There are other things which will happen but this is just to give you an idea of some of the things which will happpen which are beneficial to the US economy.
Now where will all the actual gold bullion come from? Well it will come from the current holders of gold as it reaches prices which they deem sufficient to sell to the Treasury. There will be no need to conficate gold as long as the governemnt is now trying to be honest with its money.
I have some gold and silver which I will be happy to sell the Treasury when I think that the "Price Is Right."
Jim ODonnell
Jim ODonnell
Yer question is moot.
The currency just has to have some intrinsic value. Could be PS II's, doesn't matter.
Right now yer FSN is backed by NADA!
Obviously, there's not enuff gold in the world to reflect the total global economy.
The only obvious thing here
The only obvious thing here is that you don't have any valid understanding of money. Please read "What Has Government Done to Our Money?" by Rothbard (http://www.mises.org/rothbard/rothmoney.pdf) and you will understand that the amount of gold isn't important if you don't separate the real weight of the gold from the monetary function (and for decades the government does exactly that, they deleted from the mind of the people that money should be an actual weight of an actual commodity (gold or silver) and not an imaginary unit like (dollar or euro or whatsoever - $1 was 1 ounce of silver, 1 pound sterling was 1 pound of sterling silver (92% silver, 8% copper if I remember correctly) etc.) Today money is not a weight it is an imaginary unit, without any reality in it. Anyway one of the greatest and most dangerous misconception is that there is not enough gold for money. The value of the money to other goods will perfectly adjust by the demand/supply law just as anything else would, the only thing stop this is that the money is not under market control but under political control.
Please read the book first, get some knowledge, even moderate knowledge or small knowledge about the matter is better that discussions without any knowledge about the matter.
Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
You need to research your candidate's positions on these
Issues. "Where is the gold going to come from?" Is not a valid question BECAUSE Dr.Paul does not wish to institute a gold standard.
Check with the campaign and get your facts straight.
The basics are, allow gold and silver to be used as competing currencies. Gold and silver are taxed now in transfer and that is the gov't as usual. The fed has laws against the attempts to create competing currencies. These laws would be repealed and you could tell your boss you want to be paid in silver and or go get a job with a boss who would....welcome to the free market.
There is plenty of gold and silver and the market would set their value instead of big brother or whomever the fascist dictator du jour is.
With research you will find that JFK was planning to introduce legislation for a silver standard before they shot him.
Research and ask a question based on the truth not a question that the media has been using to F%$# with Dr. Paul for the last 4 months.
This explains my testiness. WEE NEED TO KNOW THIS SH%$ AND IT IS ON THE WEBSITE.
Best,
T
Unify
actually
I wont get into the details as I dont have time, but it's been shown that JFK did NOT try and reinstate silver or gold or anything like that. Google the issue and read up on it, there is some good info that comes up. JFK didn't need to mess with the Fed. to get shot. . .;-)
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
This is nonsense
With research you will find that JFK was planning to introduce legislation for a silver standard before they shot him.
The president can't introduce legislation. This is just part of Kennedy hagiography. St. JFK was not about to rock the financial boat.
Competing Currency
The idea is to have a competing currency based on Gold and convert over time. That is RP position. There is no need to do this on the federal level. Just let companies like the Liberty Dollar work and stop taxing Gold.
It is not possible to convert the Fedral Reserve Note to Gold. Mainly because it is likely that Fort Knox is empty or storing the Gold now owned by the FED and not the American People..
Liberty takes courage!
Sure it is true that there isn't enough gold to convert all Federal Reserve Notes all at once. But that doesn't mean that there can't be a conversion of paper to gold. The Federal Reserve bank has other assets cover the debt, we just have to have a presidential order reversing the order of F.D.R. This would reverse what has happened over the past 74 years of the government having more power and the Federal Reserve calling all the shots. It will take someone with real courage to do so and the backing of the people. We have to remember that the Constitution never meant for a Centralized Federal government with absolute power and so much control. F.D.R.'s New Deal is just a guise for Socialism and the eventual plan for the Federal government to own and control everything. If you don't believe this then ask yourself if you really own your land, do you really own anything. Since the government takes a cut out of everything you own or produce. Try not paying your property taxes or income taxes. It has become a system like that practiced by the mafia in which we have to pay for protection and a few connected or elite benefit. But we don't have to settle for this situation, since we can protect ourselves if we stick together.
grant