Question on the constitutional authority to incur debt
I was just looking for the constitutional source of the authority of Congress to incur public debt. Searching for "debt", here's what I see: Article 1 Sec 8 says Congress can pay the debt; Article 7 legitimizes any pre-Constitutional debt; then the 14th amendment says "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned." SO this finally (in 1868) says debt can be authorized by law, but does it mean Congress can authorize debt only "for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion"? If you're a student of http://www.losthorizons.com, then you would read it that way, as "includes" strictly defines what it includes, and doesn't take on its common "extending" usage.
It seems to me that, as a republic of states, each state should be providing its share of funding to the federal government, which keeps the fed constantly in a "begging for funds" mode -- but nonetheless usually debt-free -- and the states in a position of power. None of this "we take it and give some back" nonsense.
I know, according to the 14th itself, I'm not supposed to question it, but I'm in such a mischievous mood...





















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Interesting.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Talkin' About This?
"What Constitutional authority exists for the U.S. Government or Federal Reserve to use public (taxpayer) funds for definitively private purposes?"
... ... ...
Federal District Court Obstructs Lawsuits
Challenging Authority for Bailouts
Judiciary Scuttles Motions Demanding U.S.
Produce Evidence of Constitutional Authority
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/Update/Update2008-09-26...
... ... ... ...
update to it:
USDC Order Obstructing Bailout Lawsuits
Appealed to U.S. Court of Appeals
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/Update/Update2008-09-30...
... ... ... ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDTxvDJ1Rw&feature=related
I guess we are winning
cuz they are attacking this site!
Oh I See
Someone is upset!
Article I Section 8
Clause 2
"To borrow money on the credit of the United States;"
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec1
As columnist Joe Sobran said in 1988...
and I quote, "The Constitution and Bill of Rights no longer present any serious impediment to our current form of government".
And that was 20 years ago!
God help us!
"What have you done for Ron Paul today"?
.
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God ain't doing it...
Looks as if we'll have to do it ourselves.
If there's any uncorrupted law enforcement in any state or the military, it's time to go after Greenspan, Bernanke and Paulson.
Where's Joe Arpaio when we need him?
October 3, 2008
The Bubble Boys
The Greenspan bubble benefited the banks, the real estate moguls, and, most of all, the war profiteers
by Justin Raimondo
The $700 billion bailout for the Wall Street poobahs looks ready to sail through the House of Representatives, which earlier – and uncharacteristically – listened to the popular will and voted a resounding "No!" heard ‘round the world. After going back to the drawing boards, and doing what they did with the war funding vote – packing plenty of pork into it – the Democratic-controlled Senate gave its assent, as expected.
The history of this tactic is recent. When left-wing Democrats rebelled and threatened to vote against war funding, Pelosi festooned the "off-budget" appropriations bill with plenty of midnight basketball and similar bridges-to-nowhere: in Washington, a little bribery goes a long way. Same with the bailout bill: it went from 3 pages to novel-size and by the time it gets through the House it may be the legislative equivalent of Atlas Shrugged – although, I fear, our story will have a different ending. The pressure is now on House Republicans – who make up the majority of nay-sayers – to get with the program and vote "aye." One question, however, that is on everyone's mind is: where is all this money going to come from?
The answer is that it is going to be added to the U.S. government's already astronomical debt, which is being financed by foreign creditors – the Chinese, the Saudis, and various and sundry other governments flush with cash and looking to park it someplace. This has worked out, so far, although not without preliminary warnings aplenty of the gathering crisis. There is, however, a point where the credit rating of the U.S. Treasury reaches its limit – and it is about to do so. Past that point, foreigners will pull out their money, seeking safer havens than the increasingly hollow "guarantee" of our government's "good faith and credit."
Then what?
Then – real catastrophe, albeit not the one warned of by advocates of the bill, including the two "major" presidential candidates. To the solons of Washington, the downfall of the Bubble boyz – those who profited from Alan Greenspan's irrational exuberance as he stepped on the gas and let it rip – is the greatest tragedy ever told. No more private planes. No more high class whores – and, speaking of whores, no more corporate slush funds and fat campaign contributions to cooperative lawmakers. Oh, boo hoo hoo!
Yet this sentiment is limited to the precincts of the Imperial City. The meteoric rise and fall of the Bubble boyz is a morality tale that the man in the street can understand – and applaud! – with unabashed schadenfreude. The offspring of the Greenspan bubble are several grades lower on the evolutionary scale than the old WASP elite. They are certainly not imbued with either the traditional spirit of noblesse oblige or even ordinary common sense.
This is what Ayn Rand – Greenspan's old mentor – used to call "the aristocracy of pull," as she put it in one of her fascinating and audaciously self-referential essays. The housing boom – and bust – was made possible by U.S. government-guaranteed loans, given to individuals who failed to meet minimum credit standards. This "backed by the faith and credit of the U.S. government" label created a market that continued to overvalue these "assets," which were then bundled together into instruments of increasing complexity and sophistication. These "derivatives" and other exotic securities became progressively further and further removed from real market conditions.
The Greenspan bubble, pumped up to its limit, continued to expand – and quite naturally popped. Rand used to call him "the undertaker," because of his dark suits and darker demeanor. Little did she realize that her loyal disciple – Greenspan used to give lectures on "The Economics of a Free Society" at the old Nathaniel Branden Institute – would one day become the undertaker of the U.S. economy.
The policy of bank credit expansion – inflating the money supply – benefited certain groups and disadvantaged others: it privileged the already-rich at the expense of the aspiring, and those on limited incomes, because new money trickles downward, from the commanding heights to the lower echelons of the socio-economic pyramid. By the time it gets near the bottom, this cash has already lost a good deal of its value, although the illusion of widespread prosperity lingers for a time.
Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor – that's the first rule of state-capitalist societies everywhere. Aside from the financial whiz kids and the real estate moguls, however, it was the military-industrial complex, as Dwight Eisenhower called it, that was perhaps the single greatest beneficiary of the Greenspan bubble.
Our wars of ‘liberation" are financed by the age-old stratagem of inflating the money supply: this covert tax is no less keenly felt, yet our awareness of it is gradual, less shocking than a tax bill. Now, of course, we are feeling it, as even the most hawkish pro-war Republicans, such as Tom DeLay, admit. On MSNBC the other day, the "Hammer" was asked his opinion of what caused the fiscal crisis, and he somewhat sheepishly pointed to the costs of the Iraq war. By a conservative estimate, these costs will total some three trillion dollars, and today, as we approach our sixth year of war with no clear end in sight, even pro-war types such as DeLay, backed up against the wall by the fiscal crisis, concede war expenditures are the major obstacle in the path of "saving" the economy, bailout or no bailout.
There's an interesting short book, What We Could Have Done With the Money, that details what could have been accomplished with all that cash flushed down an Iraqi rat-hole. (Obama's plan is to increase the flow of tax dollars to the region, but instead divert it to an even deeper rat-hole: Afghanistan.) The war and the frantic arms build-up that have been the chief "accomplishments" of this administration leave behind a legacy of debt and misspent resources, and during the GOP primary campaign Ron Paul did a very effective riff on this theme.
Without the costs incurred by the war, the economy would be far stronger and able to resist, or ameliorate, the pressure that caused the bubble to burst so dramatically.
The main effect of the Greenspan bubble was that wealth was diverted away from its best and most efficient use, and toward the war profiteers. The War Party was personally enriched – lots of that freshly-minted cash went to the booming "homeland security" industry, and international military "contractors," aside from which they were handing out crates of cash in Iraq, as you'll recall. We bought our great "victory" in Anbar province, and thought we had bought the Afghan clans, or some of them. We're just beginning to learn that empire-building can be pricey, and that the Afghans don't stay bought for long. In the meantime, we're shipping cash overseas to virtually every nation outside the Axis of Evil (expanded version), while ordinary middle class Americans are being forced to bail out the rich on the home front.
Yet all these billions add up to very little, as advocates of "foreign aid" are fond of pointing out, relative to the total U.S. budget. While questioning the relevance of such a calculation, I would add that in comparison to the U.S. military budget alone, our foreign aid program is indeed a minor affair.
Our misnamed "defense" budget is more than the combined military expenditures of every other nation on earth. This is quite apart from the costs of the Iraq war, and the Afghan campaign, both of which are operating on "off-budget" "supplementary" appropriations, a method of accounting that would soon result in foreclosure and worse if applied to an ordinary American household. We don't even know how many multi-billions we're spending in covert operations around the world – and on the home front, as well, given the parameters of the PATRIOT Act and subsequent legislation. The bloated monster of the American state, and the doings of its officials and minions, is so skillfully wrapped in a thick veil of official secrecy that the costs are literally incalculable.
America has developed along a very narrow evolutionary path, like some species of animal that has developed a single attribute so specialized and out of proportion that it winds up in an evolutionary dead-end. That way lies extinction. There is, however, another path.
We could begin by making very large cuts in the "defense" budget: this would show the markets that we are serious., as Paul Craig Roberts suggests in the latest Counterpunch, about getting our economic act together. Ending the war would stop much of the heavy bleeding immediately, and give an anemic economy time to correct previous distortions generated by the Federal Reserve's easy money policy. Of course, only a gold-backed dollar can stop these boom-bust cycles, which are inherent in state-capitalist bank-centered systems such as ours – but that's a subject for another day, and, perhaps, another venue.
Just remember, all you left-wing foes of U.S. intervention, that it isn't just the banks that are getting bailed out. As you get behind Obama, and rationalize his backing of welfare for the well-connected, remember that the War Party, too, is getting bailed out.
The limitations imposed by finally facing the reality of bankruptcy, and doing something about it, would be fatal to the imperial project. Once we realize we're flat broke and act to turn things around, our government won't be sending tax dollars to, say, the former Soviet republic of Georgia, recent site of pilgrimages by Joe Biden and Cindy McCain. (Can Sarah Palin be far behind?)
Like lightning at midnight, what the economic crisis throws into stark relief is the corruption at the heart of our system. The Empire is like a towering tree hollow at its center, its core eaten out by termites and dry rot. It will surely make quite a crash when it falls, or is pushed over.
~ Justin Raimondo
Call the Constitution Police Someone!!
They've done it again! That makes 900 zillion times now. When will the constitution police come. Why do people keep asking questions like this? What good does it do? It's like standing at an accident scene looking at your totaled car and saying, "I didn't think you were allowed to run stopsigns" Who cares! The car is toast! The sign was ran. In that case, however, there IS someone who does something about it and makes the person give the government money. That'll get your cool paintjob back.
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Look in the mirror.
We are the constitution police. We are currently in the process of waking up the rest of the constitution police.
-jcr
"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel
Good Point! Excellent Point!!
We have to get on it now. The trouble is, it will involve leaving home. And nobody likes doing that. There's bills to pay. We could get in trouble. We won't fix it from our computers and we won't fix it with letters, petitions, or placards. The time has come for the tree of liberty to be refreshed. Today was as monumental as Nov 1913. It's not the government, it's the criminal banking cartel familes. We need 1,000,000 dedicated warriors. But for now, 10 would do. I have never met any. And everyone's too damn afraid of these crooks to stand up and say I'm ready to go. Makes me sick.
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I'm ready to go.
I'm ready to go.
I don't disagree,
but a bit of mental exercise is still good for the brain -- helps me shake off the sleepies.
~~~ Citizenship is not a spectator sport! ~~~
Penfield, Monroe County, New York
Sorry. I just get so frustrated
I really want to fix this situation, but no one even EXPECTS the federal government to uphold the constitution.
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i thought Congress had to Balance it's Budget...
isn't that impossible now? didn't the "Bailout" bill that they passed, just violate that law?
2Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Why should they balance a budget now?
They are on a roll. They want a Socialist form of government, and are selling the entire United States off to foreign entities. I believe each State needs to become more self sufficient, and leave the union, one at a time.