Teaparty07; Arron Russo linked to "9-11 Truthers" movement.
Regarding the "Freedom to Fascism" video on Teaparty07
A poster on another board has pointed out the following:
"Aaron Russo was a strong supporter of Alex Jones (the radio host from infowars.com), and Trevor was interviewed by Alex Jones recently... Jones (along with a some people here) lean towards the "9-11 Truthers" movement, which claims that 9-11 was an "inside job". Even if we agree with that, that is not the position of Ron Paul... and we should not create an impression that Dr. Paul supports the concept that 9-11 was an inside job".
If he can find the linkage you can bet the linkage will be noted in the first paragraph of every story about December 16th.
I would rather December 16th fail than have all 35,000 donors, including me, directly associated with the notion that September 11th was an inside job.
Ron Paul does not support that position and neither do I. Count me out.
Teaparty07 is accomplishing the WRONG goal. They are driving supporters away.
You may say "go ahead and go." To that, all I can say is Paul is only polling at 5% today. And if more negative publicity is perpetrated by his supporters you're going to see that number fall real fast. And that won't get Paul in the White House. You'll only marginalize yourselves and your candidate even further. Period.
Guilt by association is only
Guilt by association is only "bad publicity" if you are incapable of rational thought. I'll grant you that this applies to the majority of Americans -- especially the non-voters -- but I find it laughable that people keep trying to make hay out of these slanderous accusations.
If you want to know Ron Paul's position on subject A, B or C, ask Ron Paul. Do not ask people who support Ron Paul, because you never know who you might be talking to, or what their motives are.
There are several archives of Ron Paul's writings; I suggest you seek answers there, rather than continuing to lend credence to conspiracy X, Y or Z.
Start here: http://ronpaullibrary.org/
===Signature===
"Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests." --George Washington
How about this,came in an
How about this,came in an email today from trevor and he has also posted it here
Wtprn.com and RonPaulForPresident2008.com were instrumental in bringing exposure and momentum for the ThisNovember5th.com event. Many other sites helped as well, this next project will have a links section that will list them all.
Trevor Lyman
You all seem to trust Trevor Lyman....Just read his own words WTPRN.com were instrumental in bringing exposure and momentum for the ThisNovember5th.com event.In case you dont know that site is bookmarked by and survives because of conspiracy nuts.
Keep biting the hand that feeds you and you may stand alone.
Quite calling people names,worry about your selves.And for the love of God , stop telling people what to do
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep (own) and bear (carry) arms is ,as a last resort ,to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-Thomas Jefferson
Wise move and Wikipedia link to the Fed
Thanks so much to Trevor for making a wise decision.
BTW, I've been trying to educate myself about this some more. I found this link to be useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Board_of_Governors
Esp. the "measures of money". Read the comments about M3, and why, all of a sudden, in 2006, how the Fed decided to simply stop reporting this number, since it was "too much work".
If you believe that, then I have a bridge in NY I want you to buy.
See also Ron Paul's bills to force them to provide this data.
* M0: The total of all physical currency, plus accounts at the central bank that can be exchanged for physical currency.
* M1: M0 - those portions of M0 held as reserves or vault cash + the amount in demand accounts ("checking" or "current" accounts).
* M2: M1 + most savings accounts, money market accounts, and small denomination time deposits (certificates of deposit of under $100,000).
* M3: M2 + all other CDs, deposits of eurodollars and repurchase agreements.
The Federal Reserve ceased publishing M3 statistics in March 2006, explaining that it costs a lot to collect the data but doesn't provide significantly useful information.[21] The other three money supply measures continue to be provided in detail.
In an effort to reverse this change, Congressman Ron Paul introduced the now expired H.R.4892[22] on March 7th, 2006, and subsequently sponsored H.R.2754[23][24] on June 15th, 2007 which has been referred to the House Committee on Financial Services.
All of this is a complex as hell. I consider myself well-educated, but I must admit, I don't understand all of the pros and cons of having fiat currency.
I also don't understand which of the countries globally have a fiat currency as opposed to gold-backed currency.
I do think that some Ross Perot-style infomercials, where Ron Paul would explain all of this in detail, would be enormously useful.
Countries with gold backed currencies
I can answer your question on which countries have a gold backed currency - NONE. And because the dollar before 1971 was backed by gold, and it was the reserve currency, and most other currencies were pegged (fixed exchange) to the dollar, then that meant those other currencies were de facto gold backed. Since 1971, no national currency has been backed by gold which might be a first in history. As some financial writers say "We are in uncharted waters on this."
The Russo film is now gone
The Russo film is now gone anyway. The new film is pretty good. Its older, but better quality i think.
"You don't gain much by being angry. I see this more as an intellectual, philosophical fight than a political, personality fight." - Ron Paul
"You don't gain much by being angry. I see this more as an intellectual, philosophical fight than a political, personality fight." - Ron Paul
goes too far
I agree with 95% of Aaron Russo's film, but a few points are a stretch. There is a place for the Fed Reserve. I thought Ron Paul wants a competing currency, not to eleiminate the system completely. I'm sure he would like to, but a competing monetary system backed by gold is huge step in the right direction. Paul isn't out there saying the world is coming to an end -- that's the tone of the Russo film. However, lot's of scary and very real stuff in there. I think the site should be all about Paul.
TEOTWAWKI?
Sure, "Paul isn't out there saying the world is coming to an end," but he does describe our economic situation as "precarious" and in "crisis."
Excerpt from Ron Paul's Statement Before the Joint Economic Committee, November 8, 2007
"Mr. Chairman, our economy finds itself in a precarious state. Oil prices are rising, gold is nearing all-time highs, and the dollar is nearing all-time lows. The root of this crisis, as with past financial and economic crises, results from federal government intervention into the economy, not to anything endemic to the market, nor to the the actions of market participants."
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2007/cr110807h.htm
That Trevor fellow has apparently been quite democratic in this matter insofar as he ran a poll and pulled the link. But isn't the gross negativity evinced by the original poster of this thread exactly the kind of thing that we as Ron Paul supporters work to avoid?
This Trevor fellow was the big cheese in the successful Nov. 5 effort. He's chalked up gains of $4.2 million and suddenly, through this success he is made a target by a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks. That's exactly the kind of bashing of the entrepreneurial spirit that Ron Paul is working to overcome.
If you don't like someone else's work, get over it. YOU have the freedom to create something to your own liking. Why not try your hand at creating your own success rather than beating on the hard work of others?
Excellent response "gator"
"That's exactly the kind of bashing of the entrepreneurial spirit that Ron Paul is working to overcome.
If you don't like someone else's work, get over it. YOU have the freedom to create something to your own liking. Why not try your hand at creating your own success rather than beating on the hard work of others?"
Isn't this what true freedom is about?
...and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2 Cor. 3:17
So what!
If you know anything about Aaron Russo you would be happy that Dr. Paul would be linked to him. Have you seen the movie? Do you know anything about the people who want a new investigation about 9/11? Many have lost loved ones if I had lost a loved one I would want another investigation. I went to the Nov.5 sight once did not sign up but contributed. It looks like that is what most people did. Why, is everyone in such a up roar over this sight or that sight. If you are uncomfortable with the sights don't go. The whole idea of the sights is just to remind people to donate that day. Mark your calendar
donate. Case closed. The campaign supporters could all be monks and nuns and the media would try and smear us. The war mongers supporting the other candidates are not held up to a spot light and called names like we are. I have heard Dr. Paul remark many times about how he admired Dr. King and Rosa Parks and others who peacefully made change and I think they are his role models. Let us all go forth and follow these great Americans in a peaceful struggle to regain our freedoms.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
Hey Mav,
Relax.
If we were all 9/11 "nutjobs", there would be no momentum. On the other hand, the 9/11 "nutjobs" care deeply about the course of this country. Give them credit for the ideas that everyone should ponder.
I know it is scary to think about false flag terrorism, but if you have never heard of the idea or don't think that it could happen then you are naive. It has happened in the past, and I'm sure it will happen in the future.
Ron Paul is the guy even the conspiracy theorists trust. Gee wiz, he must be very trustworthy. The reason they like him is because he is not intertwined with the establishments agenda groups, and that is to be lauded.
Relax.
We're not into bombs, so we drop the money bomb$!!!!!!
The mainstream media doesn't want Ron Paul, because he wants to preserve the cookies in the jar for the average citizenry, and he wants corporatists to do legitimate business. They want the status quo.
Money bomb$, money bomb$, money bomb$, money bomb$!!!!!
We're having a tea party on December 16
Ron Paul taught us all, the revolution hits deep
money bomb$ money bomb$, man, we drop the money bomb$
cuz we're tired of the BOMBS, and paying for those BOMBS!!!
"Freedom Is A Road Seldom Traveled By The Multitude." - Frederick Douglass
All the thruthers want
is a new investigation done by the families with subpoena power. When RP wins that will happen. I don't agree that it was the government, but at least a new investigation will clean house and corruption.
Hey truthers! you are getting your investigation. Give tons of money to RP's campaign.
How about this idea ....
OK guys, I have read this entire thread and I begrudgingly agree that the link to the entire video is probably too much. However, there are very salient points that should be established. What about a suggestion to Trevor to remove the link to the video but replace it with either text outlining points about how the Income Tax is actually illegal as well as documenting what the "Fed" is? Before watching AFTF, I didn't know about either of these two things and I'm sure the majority of Americans don't either! Sure, the RFID stuff and other things in the movie are probably too "far out there" for most Joe Americans to digest, but the fact that the Fed is a private cartel of banks and is unconstitutional is a good point to get across--this will further explain why RP wants to get rid of it.
Just my $0.02
Yes...
yes, I was just about to comment the same thing. The first 15 seconds of the video presents the crux of why the Federal Reserve should be done away with.
Much more appropriate video. Now everyone can be happy.
:)
Look again, the video was replaced last night
There is a shorter video in its place that is more agreeable.
Rick
RP raised jaw dropping $XM in 24 hrs on tea dumping day
What other headlines you think are possible...pls share.
Posted this last night and then the site crashed
While Ron Paul is a libertarian at heart he is going to allow the American people to choose the way they will express themselves. Notice he did not say very much about Nov 5th before it happened. While it did effectively draw many to donate because of that day, it may not have been RP's choice for days because of the way people could have and actually did take it. I believe the day was a lesser evil and the actual donation may very well be the reason RP wins the election in the end. So while many of us did not prefer the day and intended reason, we did still want to get behind RP and so we gave on that day. We saw the evils as lesser than the greater evil of not donating.
Now, lets look at this idea in the light of the video and beyond. First the video. The video and day of Dec 16 may be giving the campaign a wrong image. It may be an image many RP voters have, but we do not want to give the impression that it is everyone. We need to be united on the fundamentals and careful about the secondary matters. There are primary objectives that are not to be confused with secondary ones. If we listen to RP we see that he is not hasty. While the video is good, I don't think it belongs on that page. We need to build up more of a positive image for this revolution and take things step by step. While a link to the video may be a lot more agreeable, the video may just be too much and drive people away from not only the donation that day but also RP.
This year will be very important for American history in many ways. From my study of American history, as a publisher of such books, I see that this revolution could go two different ways. It could remain careful and positive, with all of its trials, and get RP in to do what he can to help America govern itself, etc. Or it could get really nasty. The powers that be may just want him to draw in a large gathering that will polarize the country and create just the situation to start an out-of-control revolution leading to a civil war. There is no doubt many people who would push for such a revolution and everyone must be very careful. There are a lot of angry people, and when people unit then it becomes an unstoppable mob. Thus we must be very careful not to create any kind of an wrong impression. Follow Ron Paul's excellent example. See how he takes criticism. See how he treats the others in their sins and changing positions. Keep the mood positive and be careful for all the traps coming. The bait will be waiting in many places.
Rick
We are diverse -- strength and creativity in diversity
www.oct27chicago.org
I am now burning America: Freedom to Fascism and I am planning to pass it out to the 200 apartment doors in our complex.
Yesterday I was at a high school state volleyball venue and many HS kids knew and were excited about RP.
Go Ron Paul
Welcome to the forums Mav
Been here a total of 18 hours, and this thread is pretty mature, I'm guessing this is your first post here. Welcome, glad to have any RP supporters.
Around here, we know what Dr. Paul's position is on the issue; that he believes there is more an issue of incompetence than complicity.
No one here is worried about Dr. Paul's true beliefs on the issue. So perhaps you might be better off educating whoever put up that ignorant post.
Sure hope this is sincere.....
this broadest possible message will work best...
www.thisdecember16th.com
DVD
Don't be ridiculous...from freedom to fascism is a great education for people that don't have a clue. Dr Paul did the interview so I'd imagine it's ok with him! Ron Paul for President!!
When freedom is at stake, silence is not golden – it is yellow- Tom Anderson writer patriot. 1910-2001
"Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
More angry, more determined
How many Ron Paul supporters became more angry, more determined, and more excited by Ron Paul's campaign because of Aaron Russo's work?
I did.
The connection between Freedom to Fascism and Ron Paul is a very positive one.
Just 2 cents
The original Tea Party (1773) was a protest of TAXATION, so I don't see the huge problem with a connection to an eye-opening video about the fraudulent nature of the income tax.
Granted, there was no income tax in 1773 (they were protesting EXCISE taxes) -- but America's founders (most of them) would be rolling in their graves that we haven't done more to stand up against taxation on our labor.
The income tax is also relevant to Dr. Paul's platform, and he has roughly 20 (*eloquent*) minutes in the Freedom to Fascism film if I remember correctly.
911 is not a topic addressed in the FTF documentary. If it were, then I would probably agree with those who call for it's removal from the Tea Party donation drive site.
Russo & his film, & TeaParty07
As I type this, a stack of AFTF DVDs sits 18 inches from my left shoulder. I dragged my family members to go see the film in its brief stint in theaters. I greeted Bob Schulz at the Portland airport in spring of '06 on his tour promoting the pre-release version of the film. I have personally met a handful of the people interviewed in the movie -- and that had happened *before* the movie was even made.
So...
I'm pretty close to as solid a supporter of AFTF as anybody you'll find. :-)
It should not be on the TeaParty07 site, for the simple reason that it isn't the ideal movie to present to the still-groggy who wander in bleary-eyed wondering what Ron Paul is about and how it relates to Dec. 16. As others have pointed out, there are plenty of good vids of the good Dr. being interviewed which will work quite well for this purpose. AFTF is about a lot of things, all of which I agree are important subjects, but Ron Paul's part in the film doesn't occur until late in it, making it not the ideal showcase for Ron if that is all we're looking for at this time.
It isn't censorship to swap vids there. It's just marketing. We need to reach Joe American now. We've already got the wonks and the conspiracy theorists on board. Let's narrow the focus a bit and lock in our unsuspecting new proto-supporters with a laser beam of pure Ron. They can always watch AFTF later on. Plenty of folks will ensure that it's always available; Aaron left us that gift and we will preserve it.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Get active NOW to put Ron in the general election. ronpaul.meetup.com
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What is begun in anger, ends in shame.
They are the same as we
Many lately have apparently taken the cue offered by the MSM as to the way we must proceed at all costs. Summed up as "joining the mainstream" or "courting the mainstream" we are told we must after all comply with the present state of mind persistent among the majority. It is as if they are right after all and now we must mature and join the greater fold of wiser humanity. Then by some chance we may gain their favor and be heard as equals providing we limit our words as to be directed to the most timid and subservient among them.
Somehow our lovable but naive notions started a torch of liberty which only the traditional mind numbed state of apathy and brainwashing is able to further. As if subtly deceived by conceit we have come to believe we have eyes and hearts most others do not to the conclusion that the uninformed have somehow become the uninformable.
I say they simply have not heard the truth. They are the same as we. Saving only they are raising so many children and working so many hours under this economic state of servitude they have not found the time or opportunity to learn that present hope for political liberty we by the providence of God have come to embrace.
Are our souls really so better attuned than that of our countrymen? Will the truth somehow be better kept to ourselves lest the inferior reject out of hand the same ember which once and forever gave birth to our patriotic vigor? Need the remainder who yet slumber be awakened by a diluted portion equal to their evidently inferior capacities?
These are presumptions of conceit and are contrary to what we ourselves once heard from neighbor or speech, film or booklet. Offered to us not diluted but received in every instance devoid of apology or timidity, half-truth or edited of controversy. Could we otherwise be thus moved?
Now is not the time to apologize for truth nor is it time to disempower that same spark which rendered us fit to speak boldly of a free heart. Our countrymen are likewise with us. Once they know and hear exactly as we have heard.
_______________________________
..Without the truth we have nothing
Very True... Yet
Very true, November 5th captured people who know the truth. We now need to capture people on the fence. How this is to be done I don't know quite honestly.
I don't think limiting the truth is the way to go either. I still think the front page of TeaParty should be strictly limited to Ron Paul's message. One of his messages is eliminating the income tax and how that can be done. This would be an excellent video.
Maybe we could then have links to "More information about the income tax"
Ron Paul does not plan to tell everyone "the income tax is illegal, don't pay" he plans to change the laws from the inside. This is what we need to concentrate on, changing the system from the inside. Ron Paul represents the first time this goal has become realistic. Years of yelling "unfair, illegal, etc" have gotten us nowhere.
FREEDOM!!!!
Brilliant comments.
November 5th worked so well precisely because it was spontaneously and passionately executed from the ground up, not from the top down. It captured the imagination of individuals--several thousand individuals--without worrying about whether someone might misinterpret V or Guy Fawkes or blowing up Parliament. Can you imagine the miserable product that would have resulted if the November 5th concept had been exposed to focus groups before launch? Compare it to the other GOP candidates' pathetic attempts at "money bomb" websites. The media newsreaders and neocon stenographers that tried to make a "Guy Fawkes was a terrorist" connection to Ron Paul on Tuesday looked like fools.
I watched the Russo video and was amazed. Not at the information contained, but how well it was made and how creatively it explained all the details of the issue--from Philander Knox to the definition of income. Well done.
damn
damn that was good! lit major?
Aaron Russo, Freedom Fighter
Thanks to those who came to Russo's defense while I was composing the following to post here; RIP Aaron...
"In 2006, Russo wrote, produced, directed, and starred in a documentary feature film entitled America...From Freedom To Fascism. The film questions the legality of the income tax, attacks the "growing authoritarianism" in American life, and challenges viewers to participate in civil disobedience to preserve liberty." http://www.theadvocates.org/celebrities/aaron-russo.html
I have read through this thread and found, what appears to me, only a few people who have actually watched the video and know who Aaron Russo was. Aaron Russo was one of Dr. Paul's earliest celebrity supporters for his 2008 Presidential Campaign. Ron Paul is interviewed by Russo in this documentary. Russo died last summer, Paul attended his funeral. MikeK and JustinS are correct: the documentary has nothing to do with with 911 or Truthers; it has everything to do with Taxation Without Representation, just like the Boston Tea Party. The Freedom to Fascism documentary is the perfect, most appropriate video for the TeaParty07 donor drive; I know MANY, MANY Ron Paul supporters who found him through this video. To understand and know more about Ron Paul's long-held views concerning the Federal Reserve and the IRS, please read/view manystrom's posts on this DailyPaul's Home page (recent Bernanke Hearing), then visit the Campaign site http://www.ronpaul2008.com/ and http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/ to study more on the subject right from the horse's mouth: Ron Paul. Actually watching Freedom To Fascism is a really good idea, too. Sadly, I only get to visit DP a few times a week now, but for the past month I've noticed it has been invaded by spooks and statists: "Stop" this and "Stop" that, along with oodles of what I believe to be intentional disinformation, distraction. Mmmm...perhaps manystrom/moderators and Ron Paul/DailyPaul "supporters" will be able to neutralize this most obvious sabotage? Then again, perhaps by virtue of these particular posts being just plain ole garbage, they will naturally burn-out? Mav, have you watched the documentary, yet? By the way, RP doesn't support the "inside job" position, but he DOES support the position that all of our questions have not been answered satisfactorily. Tarey M., MT
"Just so everyone is clear abou this, Freedom to Facsim deals with the IRS, tax code, Federal Reserve, and NAU. There is no mention of the 9/11 truth movement in it." ~ MikeK
"Sorry to post this twice. But have you guys watched the video?...The video is about the IRS, the FED, and our currency. Its not a crazy video. It doesnt even mention 911. And who says that aaron russo is a truther? Has anyone actually seen him state that?" ~ JustinS
August 25, 2007
Aaron Russo (1943-2007)
Early this year when Dr. Ron Paul announced he would form a presidential exploratory committee to test the waters for a possible run for president, Aaron Russo was one of the first people to call and offer support, encouragement and help.
I never met Aaron Russo in person, but talked with him several times by telephone. His commitment to the freedom movement and his commitment to see Dr. Paul be elected our next president was unwavering; even while he was undergoing treatment for cancer.
Thank you Mr. Russo.
My condolences to his family and his friends.
Kent Snyder
Chairman, Ron Paul 2008 http://ronpaul2008.typepad.com/ron_paul_2008/2007/08/index.html
Death by Association
Ron Paul also spoke at Aaron Russo's memorial service.
That, according to the prevailing mob logic would of course mean that Ron Paul is unfit to represent himself.
It also means that in order to distance ourselves from Aaron Russo and to avoid death by association we have to disassociate ourselves from Dr. Paul.
Hence, i'm with Hillary from now on, because she has a douzend of consultants, who adjust everything she says and does to the latest opinion polls.
___
Hillary 08
LOL, RoC....LOL!
I agree,
this is a situation where we should ask What Dr. Paul would say.
He would quickly brush it off and say a difference of opinion has little effect on our collective desire for Freedom.
Aaron Russo wanted it.
Dr. Paul wants it.
and so does everyone here.
It makes little difference Who's wrong or right about an issue.
If we're all committed to Ron Paul for president I see no problem standing next to ANYONE!!
This is the kind of talk you'll NEVER hear in the Hillary camp.