"Zeitgeist" needs to be dropped by all parties!
The bottom line here people is that "Zeitgeist" is divisive and not a good thing at all for the future success of the CFL, period. It needs to be dropped by all parties! People have the freedom to go and water down the strength of the CFL by joining the “Zeitgeist Movement” if they wish. But it’s at the cost of the only REAL thing frightening the establishment and the death nail to REAL hope.
"Zeitgeist" may be big on the internet but the "views" espoused in it are too hippy-dippy, utopian and patronising for the general public to ever swallow, the most it's ever going to do is form a sort of cult around itself. This is a film which seeks to TELL people what to think, while pretending to encourage the viewer to think for themselves. It's trying to "mould" people, and its rather creepy in my opinion. It needs to be cut out of the Ron Paul/Freedom/Patriot Movement, it is only going to cause potentially fatal divisions amongst us.
Define Liberty
The Zeitgeist series offers a scathing review of the corruption that has brought the US to these current times of big government, concluding that government - and certainly big government - is an obsolete institution.
The founders of the US recognized that government and liberty are mutually exclusive. In other words, they too recognized that, IN ITSELF, government is an obsolete carry-over from primitive society, and so defined government's fundamental role as self-regulation. The Constitution was their brilliant yet imperfect answer (as big government of today demonstrates) to such a parodox.
An alternate solution offered in this film series is to withdraw from the corrupt mindtrip of politics. How is this really different from Ron Paul's endorsement of a vote of "no confidence"?
I think any protestation of these films in the name of liberty represents an underestimation of this film's ability to free people's minds from years of social conditioning and an overestimation of one's ability to define liberty (despite its limitless transpersonal qualities.)
Making Light of Self,
A Song for the Campaign for Liberty
Zeitgeist part one is a hoax
How some people here can take things at face value without doing any research is beyond me. I thought we would all have enough commonsense to sniff out bullshit whenever it reared its ugly head.
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html
If there is a hole in truth it can only mean what it is turns out to be not.
Now if Zeitgeist is a lie please tell me why I should listen to the addendum? I watch the first few minutes and couldn't take the music nor the imagery. To hypnotic for my taste. It also gave me a headache. Must be a mutation that renders me unable to absorb lies. Same thing when 9/11 happened.
Will you arrest me if I start a new thread?
___________
Lisa C.
Boston Tea Party
"Time to Party Like It's 1773!"
Charles Jay 2008.
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
great- here I am all in john cougar mellencamp mode
and ya godmode me into mental images of those pink furry handcuffs you get at that place in the mall.
Live Free or Diebold
Now we are getting somewhere.
BigT sez:
My response:
Point well taken, but the "illuminati" or whatever we call them take truth and distort it as a matter of course. perhaps a communal attitude within society is a great benefit for individuals to hold? perhaps the inner-attractiveness of communism lies in this? how easy it is for PTB to manipulate things like this is well understood. for instance the doctrine espoused by the Jesus figure is relatively pure. how has so much killing been done in the name of that doctrine? perhaps the answer is to promote individualism, but with a communal theme? that sounds very much like what good-hearted libertarians suggest is the ideal. - though they recognize that morality cannot be legislated into existence.
everyone needs to use their intellect every day, not just hold close stagnant "understandings"
can i direct anyone's attention to this thread? http://www.dailypaul.com/node/67899.
my contention is that while marxism was a false doctrine, so is much of what we constitutionalists hold sacred
ALL of these myths should be exposed so that we can move forward, knowing what has happened and we are up against .
This sherrif looks like he's thinking like a real human,
not a capitalist, or a law enforcer, almost like some "communistic" thinking! oh no! maybe he's just being real:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/67919
edit
edit
Unpopular Speech needs protection
I liked the beginning (Zeitgeist Addendum) but I thought the end, as I am sure many here agree, was too Orwellian for words. The rise of the machines? Sounds like Stephen King's "Maximum Overdrive." I think though that it makes for good debate. Truth can only come with this kind of honest debate and I believe Peter Joseph is sincere about promoting the movement. Again I think he's a little off with his analysis. I think he means well just as I believe Naomi Wolf means well but then gives support to Obama. I don't want to alienate these people because we have enough in common to grow the movement and we should focus on what we have in common instead of what divides us. We are made up of young, old, libertarians, anarchists, republicans, democrats and so on. Freedom is what brings us all together.
http://RevolutionaryPolitics.com
http://RevolutionaryPolitics.com
Thank you, exactly man!
Thank you, exactly man!
I love the argument where people give credibility...
to parts 2 and 3 regarding the Federal Reserve and 9-11 from Zeitgeist, but then say how sad it is that the makers get it wrong with part 1 about religion...
You completely agree with 2/3 of the movie as being true, why not open your mind to the idea that you could be wrong about religion. You are already 2/3 of the way there.
If they are right about 2/3, they could be right about all of it! Maybe they don't have a horse in the race, and they are just trying to uncover pure truth. Religion can't revolve around free thought, cause it requires people to start with a conclusion and figure out how to get to that conclusion. Free thought involves starting with the goal of finding out the truth, and then reaching conclusions as you research and learn.
Just saying, open your eyes, challenge yourself
Why not
open YOUR mind that YOU could be wrong about religion?
Open your eyes.
Runs both ways, bub.
I am very open to it...
I am very open to the idea that I am wrong about religion.
It took many painstaking years to get where I'm at today.
I grew up a very Conservative Christian branch and family, so when I started to have intellectual doubts and concerns I tried to get answers from pastors, parents, and friends, so that I could keep believing the same as them.
I even have a degree in theology.
I am open to being wrong about anything. But so far over my life, I have found no logic, evidence, or truth to lead me back in the direction of religion.
that makes 2 reluctant converts
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/67899
out of christianity. it would have been much easier on me if i didn't have so many questions and a desire to understand. . . especially when so many around me thought i would make such a great pastor when i grew up.
i am open to a new understanding, but after MANY conversations with many intelligent christian believers, i still do not get it
or i do get it, its:
the truth of Life is so strange and illogical - that ONE man's life and death 2,000 years ago saved all who accept him as their "savior" from every evil imaginable - that faith in this illogical doctrine IS the only logical answer to the crazy world God created. its all written down in the bible, if there are any questions. and it doesn't contradict, thinking that it does is merely a lack of understanding on OUR part.
the the illogical and improbable becomes the logical foundation for existence. . .
the more i study this, the more i disagree - and i've studied it with an open mind for a long time. . . actually i don't bother any more, but i put more than an honest effort into it, asked for help from the holy spirit and all that other stuff that is "guaranteed" to assist.
so many "beleivers" treat "non-beleivers" like we just don't get it
Oh Yeah, I get it! I quit. But I get it.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/67899
It's always good to know...
I'm in good company.
I'm with you. Faith is religions invisible bridge where logic and reason do not exist. Truth needs no explaination, and needs to defense. I don't claim to know what the truth is, but the more and more I go through life, the more I find what the truth IS NOT.
Well,
Logic and evidence are the purview of science, which is an attempt to explain what we observe. It falls short in many ways, which is why religions and philosophies exist.
Truth, now that's a weighty subject.
My issues with the Zeitgeist Addendum do not spring from any religious intolerances, because I have always relegated that to each person's decision.
My issues with it spring from the extremely direct parallels of the Zeitgeist Addendum with the Marx/Hegel doctrines that it obviously came from, including the very title, "Zeitgeist".
There have been statements made here about how it couldn't be something like that, since there's no mention of any gov't involved.
Well, they are only showing you what they perceive to be the "finality" of it, which does not include how to get there.
This is EXACTLY how Marxism and Communism was sold originally. In the final stage of Marxism, the "perfect Communist man" evolves, and needs no government to control his actions because he's evolved into "perfection". The "pretty picture" of the utopian outcome was depicted, but as soon as the political power of the Czars was overturned, the regime turned to a dictatorship and never evolved to the "pretty picture" which was used to sell it. And it was never intended to.
This is what was planned from the outset, but was never told to the poor dupes who fought the Bolshevik Revolution and wound up under Lenin, and later, Stalin.
It was a trap from the beginning.
Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.
The whole ruse has been done before.
If you want to fall into the trap, then be my guest.
Not everyone here that has an issue with Zeitgeist is a closed-minded simpleton who knows nothing, and needs "enlightenment". Believe it or not, some of us can actually see what this leads to, by historical precedent, in the fairly recent past. Maybe even see it clearer than some here who seem certain that they see everything well enough to browbeat us with it.
Great post dude! And Hegel
Great post dude! And Hegel invented the "Hegelian Dialectic" as well right? "Problem>Reaction>Solution".
Yes.
That's the same Hegel.
point well
point well taken, but the "illuminati" or whatever we call them take truth and distort it as a matter of course. perhaps a communal attitude within society is a great benefit for individuals to hold? perhaps the inner-attractiveness of communism lies in this? how easy it is for PTB to manipulate things like this is well understood. for instance the doctrine espoused by the Jesus figure is relatively pure. how do you get people to kill in the name of that doctrine? perhaps the answer is to promote individualism, but with a communal theme? that sounds very much like what good-hearted libertarians suggest is the ideal. - though they recognize that morality cannot be legislated into existence.
everyone needs to use their intellect every day, not just hold close stagnant "understandings"
if people wake up from this mess that has been called history, and start behaving like this, the manufactured scarcity will disappear.
there is a lot of good spiritual understanding that comes from that movie, put against the script of recent history. even if there is no way to directly implement a money-less future without broad spiritual growth - i see that the current spiritual state of the world is leading our race toward self-destruction.
i'm not one to argue against the tide of history, but i don't want to be chicken little, either. and there is clearly way more to life than money. . . to me anyway
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/67899
^_^
Watch this 3 min clip you'll like it.
Thank you for your open mind audiance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls2WKUQ81xk
For a fun short video on the self check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCSsiF3BQoQ
I completely disagree
The freedom movement is supposed to be inclusive; how many times has Dr. Paul said that the message of freedom brings people together. SO why are we even discussing shunning a movement that has great potential to bring people to our side??
Amen!
And again, Amen!
And this has absolutely nothing to do with my personal religious beliefs.
I would happily have people read "Mein Kampf" or Mao's little red book, IF I thought that it would help promote the cause of constitutional liberty.
"Zeitgeist" is just a lousy tool; ineffective, controversial, divisive, and tangential.
The fact that it is hugely offensive to large groups of voters that should be our first targets for education, indoctrination, and recruitment is just icing on the cake.
The libertarian ideals and true issues that are raised in the films will actually suffer by association with these controversial ideas.
This is NOT a freedom of speech issue.
I may support your right to use profanity or burn an American flag;
but I would certainly question your wisdom (or your loyalty) if you did it while canvasing for B.J. Lawson.
I have a number of personal beliefs that I do not discuss on the Ron Paul forums. Some of them I believe to be of tremendous importance to all mankind. But I realize that:
1) Not every one is ready to accept certain truths.
2) Some people might misunderstand or be offended by the truth as I see it.
3) It just isn't NECESSARY or GERMANE to the freedom movement, and
4) It isn't fair to Ron Paul, the C4L, or any of the rest of his supporters to be associated with a lot of extraneous ideas.
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Freedom First Society
http://www.freedomfirstsociety.org/articles/
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."
After seeing all the crap about this thing on here
trust me, I have no desire to even look into the pros or the cons of it. So, all the bickering back and forth about it has done one thing: made me tune ALL OF IT OUT.
Zeitgist good? Whatever. Zeitgist bad? Whatever. People with way too much time on their hands? Obviously.
- -
Get your own "Ron Paul for Treasury Secretary" or "Nothing Changes 1-20-09 / Vote Third Party" sticker, designed by AlaskaRon, today!
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RP2012!
hmmm.....
"This is a film which seeks to TELL people what to think, while pretending to encourage the viewer to think for themselves. It's trying to "mould" people, and its rather creepy in my opinion. "
That phrase there sounds oddly similar to how many would describe many religions....
...
Correct!
The Biggest Myth in "Zeitgeist Addendum".
Is the same one that occurs in "Money As Debt". I've posted up a few links that didn't work, so here is a very brief article that punctures the "interest was not created" myth.
MONEY AS DEBT
An instructional video that gets a flunking grade
An analysis by G. Edward Griffin, 2007 June 7
Money As Debt is a well-produced instructional video explaining the inequities in the present world's banking system. In many respects it does an excellent job, but it misses the mark in several important areas. For example, it perpetuates the myth that interest can never be paid back in its entirety because banks do not create enough money to cover the principle plus the interest. I dealt with this myth on page 191 of my book, The Creature from Jekyll Island, as follows:
WHO CREATES THE MONEY TO PAY THE INTEREST?
One of the most perplexing questions associated with this process is "Where does the money come from to pay the interest?" If you borrow $10,000 from a bank at 9%, you owe $10,900. But the bank only manufactures $10,000 for the loan. It would seem, therefore, that there is no way that you - and all others with similar loans - can possibly pay off your indebtedness. The amount of money put into circulation just isn't enough to cover the total debt, including interest. This has led some to the conclusion that it is necessary for you to borrow the $900 for the interest, and that, in turn, leads to still more interest. The assumption is that, the more we borrow, the more we have to borrow, and that debt based on fiat money is a never-ending spiral leading inexorably to more and more debt.
This is a partial truth. It is true that there is not enough money created to include the interest, but it is a fallacy that the only way to pay it back is to borrow still more. The assumption fails to take into account the exchange value of labor. Let us assume that you pay back your $10,000 loan at the rate of approximately $900 per month and that about $80 of that represents interest. You realize you are hard pressed to make your payments so you decide to take on a part-time job. The bank, on the other hand, is now making $80 profit each month on your loan. Since this amount is classified as "interest," it is not extinguished as is the larger portion which is a return of the loan itself. So this remains as spendable money in the account of the bank. The decision then is made to have the bank's floors waxed once a week. You respond to the ad in the paper and are hired at $80 per month to do the job. The result is that you earn the money to pay the interest on your loan, and - this is the point -the money you receive is the same money that you previously had paid. As long as you perform labor for the bank each month, the same dollars go into the bank as interest, then out the revolving door as your wages, and then back into the bank as loan repayment.
It is not necessary that you work directly for the bank. No matter where you earn the money, its origin was a bank, and its ultimate destination is a bank. The loop through which it travels can be large or small, but the fact remains all interest is paid eventually by human effort. And the significance of that fact is even more startling than the assumption that not enough money is created to pay back the interest. It is that the total of this human effort ultimately is for the benefit of those who create fiat money. It is a form of modern serfdom in which the great mass of society works as indentured servants to a ruling class of financial nobility.
It is disappointing that the producers of this program perpetuated the "no-interest-money" myth but it was even more disappointing to see them jump on the fiat-money bandwagon as a so-called solution to the banking problem. Yes, they actually propose that the solution to fiat money created out of nothing by the banks is to have fiat money created out of nothing by the government, as though politicians are any more trustworthy than bankers.
hear hear
I'm with you. Zeitgeist is informative but a little out there for me.
..
I am ashamed at the lack of thought brought to this thread. I think It should be closed do to lack of open mindedness and a lack of respect for free speech.
Zeitgeist tells no one how to think. It asks you to open your mind to the posibilities of what has happened(in the past) what is happening (right now) and what we know is happening to our country and world (and maybe just a possible solution to it).
To anyone who feels they are being told what to think by this movie, please before you write or talk about it to the public you should study that feeling to understand why you feel that way. If you don't believe that politics can solve the problems that are confronting us, then good for you! (its free will people!!) I don't believe that we have enough time to make a political change to the whole world( yes the whole world is being manipulated im sorry if you dont know that already ) but that does not mean that each of us needs to stop fighting for political change! (duh!!)
If your concern is the whole "oneness concept" take into consideration that many many THOUSANDS of years before any ( ANY!) of the organized religeons existed that we have today the entire world (yes every continent and every group of people without exception, and please do your research before you comment) believed this to be the truth of our human existance. That means the ancestors of every single person in this audiance were once "hippy dippy utopians" and guess what the golden age existed that they speak of. Not a utopia of technology (although I've seen the pyramids and it looks like technology far more advanced than ours built that) but a utopia of love/god, and caring for all. You weren't hated in the anchient world for being gay or black or blue or orange or lesbian rich or poor everyone of us was an individual and was aloud to do as they pleased. They only cared that you believed yourself to be part of the universe (which everyone was part of) so called "oneness" and that you were of pure heart and of good character. (and if you didnt believe you were a part of the universe / or "oneness" as its called now they thought you were insane) That is all.
The Ron Paul movement and the campaign for liberty are modern day mechanisms trying to help the typical american remember what existed once long ago. A world of scarcity of the material things is all we have ever had in "modern" times. If you ask me the world today is also amazingly divided into millions of little pockets that think they are so different from the rest and division is only a game in your twisted minds!! Once you realize that behind everything you can see touch taste smell and hear we are all identical then you might have a semblance of an idea of what is being called "oneness".
You, the audiance, are not alive 100 years ago or 1000 years ago or even one second in the future. Just right now. This very moment. And if you live your life contemplating what your life should be then you are totally avoiding what your life actually is. And what ALL lives actually are.
I hope to one day be able to run for a political office even though I don't believe we can achieve real change through politics. I just want to help free the minds of all people. If you don't like zeitgeist and you really think this movie divides us. Maybe you should stop and look at yourself and see if maybe YOU and everyone that thinks like YOU is the reason this world is so divided.
In closing. Free will and love/god are the only ways this world will really change. If you think we can have a revolution outwardly without each one of us having a revolution inwardly then you will realize that every single attempt at this has failed in ALL history. I would like anyone to give an example of a revolution that happened externally of our minds and bodies that has actually succeeded in bring about the promises it gives to the people. ill help you, IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED AND IT NEVER WILL.
Close this pathetic thread of nonsense and please think for yourselves without movies words parents teachers and politicians telling you what and how to think. Learn this people. THE INWARD REVOLUTION WILL SET US FREE AND BRING A REAL EXTERNAL REVOLUTION!!!! (automatically without any difficulties) we will laugh at how easy the external revolution will be once we understand this simple premise.
Love and peace to all. Take care audiance. I hope not to hurt feelings but to be correct in what I say.
Juan
American/World citizen, lover of freedom and real truth and anyone who believes they are from this universe and has a good heart and a good weightless enlightened conscious. Believer in god/love/oneness (all the same damn thing) with no ties to any religeon.
I LOVED THIS MOVIE btw and I recommend to all.
p.s. this movie didnt make my think this way. I just don't let anyone make me think anyway and i simply do the thinking for myself.
"I think It should be closed
"I think It should be closed do to lack of open mindedness and a lack of respect" - Hahaha.. That's just a total contradiction in terms, silence a dissenting voice for "lack of open-mindedness", unbelievable. Zestiest fans are a lot like Obama supporters, it's a very similar kind of fanaticism. Are you guys actually Ron Paul supporters anymore or Marxist Communists? Seriously?
if your going to quote
if your going to quote somebody make sure you quote everything.
I think It should be closed do to lack of open mindedness and a lack of respect FOR FREE SPEECH. Im not asking for his opinions to be silenced... they've already been said. hehehe. Just asking for them to be studied as yours. I am a fan of free minds. Obviously not yours since you judge so quickly as to call me or anyone supporting any view outside yours marxist. I am not supporting a view that a "technological government" or anything of the sort might be our savior. I think that this system being promoted by Ron Paul and the founders has a sliver of a chance of bringing change. But we must be ready for the current status quo's failure to change this world and in order for the change to be a lasting one we must be ready to change ourselves and our way of thinking. I am completly open to being wrong about anything. Its what helps me evolve. Unlike you. A second class human who lives in a world feeling seperate isolated and lonely in your fight for a revolution that won't come because you won't change yourself and face your soul like the majority of mankind. Stop being divided. Join the big human/universal family.
Juan
great movie
to open the mind of the many ... first you need to be aware there is a problem...
for the solution .. we`ll work it out...