Secession is the answer
The recent passage of the 'bailout' bill, coupled with the additional 630 billion dollars in liquidity pumped into the markets, has led me to a stark conclusion. The federal government does not care what we want. It does not care about our futures and especially not about the futures of our children. The entire 'investment' system is now a lever that is wedged into the people to divide them against one another. Witness the AARP's endorsement of a banker bailout that the people DID NOT WANT. (Not to mention their support of the National Service Act) There is no way to stop this madness. Do not expect a significant change in incumbent reelection ratios, because it is not likely to happen. The government has manipulated the economy to the point that the old depend upon them and the old VOTE. They WILL vote for the fascists and the socialists because they are afraid they will starve without Mommy Government.
So, what to do? Get out. Get out of the United States of America. It was great while it lasted, but it is gone now and drowning in its own massive debt. There is nothing for free men to gain by trying to resurrect this thing that has been so thoroughly perverted and sullied by our 'betters.' Look back to the suppression of the original 13th amendment to see how this has happened to us. Our country is ruled by Esquires, and this should never have happened. But it has, and they will not give up their power.
It's time to put this corpse in the ground. The great American experiment has ended in failure, like every other republic in the history of the world. It is time to strike out as individuals, and live by a voluntary order. The model of coercive governance has failed every time it has been tried. It is time for something new.
Be brave.
Buy, sell and invest locally.
There is a better way, every body just needs to take all their money out of the stock market and government T-bills, buy food, supplies, silver and gold. Then use the silver and gold to start local businesses and trade. Invest in your local communities and don't lend money to anyone unless you know where they live and can look them in the eye.
Expecting companies thousands of miles away to take care of your money or expecting big government to solve our problems is the act of a fool.
grant
Be brave.
Buy, sell and invest locally.
There is a better way, every body just needs to take all their money out of the stock market and government T-bills, buy food, supplies, silver and gold. Then use the silver and gold to start local businesses and trade. Invest in your local communities and don't lend money to anyone unless you know where they live and can look them in the eye.
Expecting companies thousands of miles away to take care of your money or expecting big government to solve our problems is the act of a fool.
grant
Definitely an option to consider
You know I have heard quite a number of Republicans, whom had nothing to do with Dr. Paul (who is perhaps seen as the closest to the openness for secession) are openly writing about this possibility if Obama wins. Prof. Hoppe has been advocating this since years as a way to ensure smaller govt. and more freedom. The south-western states and the libertarian Alaska may be the most viable states. You know that there is a significant party and movement in Vermont that also want this, and Vermont is NOT known as a conservative state. In fact Vermont has banned Bush/Cheney from visiting.
Texas and Oklahoma can secede, with possibly parts of NM, Arizona etc.
Earlier this week on LRC there was reference to an article that 12 districts in northern California and south Oregon - who are tired of paying high taxes - want to secede. If Quebec also secedes from Canada, there will be a new movement.
What was the question?
What was the question?
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What is "How can we restore
What is "How can we restore Liberty in our lifetimes?", Alex?
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Completely wrong. I
Completely wrong. I disagree with socialism and government charity entirely, but what you advocate is nothing more than anarchy. A slavery of a different kind, the “survival of the fittest”. Constitutional government is just that, a government ruled not by men of either extremity, neither a mob nor an oligarchy, but Law. Our country is one that is ruled in such a way. You do have a need for government, you need a government every time you wish to walk from your property without the fear of being hijacked and killed by a mob of thieves roaming the neighborhood. You need them when they are to protect your property from unlawful seizure, or when you seek counsel and a trial by jury from an accusation made against you, etc. Now, I realize that our government has gone astray, believe me, I make no arguments for their illegal actions these past many years. And I realize that our government is neglecting their duties as I listed above. The answer is, however, not to disgard our wholesome form of government and state that all government is wrong, but to mend our system to its rightful place.
I understand
the states have their own constitutions as well, so if one or more states secede, why would they not have a constitution and be simply a smaller state and free to trade with any country in the world and viable, including the US.
I like this concept only because
The local gangs are smaller and therefore easier to influence and control, which for me consists of having them get the hell out of my way
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
What??
How is survival of the fittest 'slavery?' And to go beyond that, who are the most charitable, most generous people in the world? How charitable do you suppose those people would be if they didn't have an armed gang (government) stealing half their wealth from them? And how long do you suppose your 'mob of thieves' would last in a land full of armed free men? Not to mention the private security firms that would be patrolling neighborhoods and chasing off undesirables. And courts? Please. The judge, the enforcement officers and the prosecutor all work for the same entity, and they have been suppressing juries from judging the merits of the law for over 100 years now. You got anything better than that?
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
Government must exist in
Government must exist in some form, I've explained exactly the form which is correct and just, a republic. If you cannot understand that concept, I cannot help that. How is survival of the fittest slavery? you ask. Even in the most simplistic scenario, consider that if there is no law, then who will protect the weak, those unable to physically defend themselves? Oh wait, you already took care of that, you advocated private security firms patrolling neighborhoods, sound like a police force my freind, of which we already have (another service government provides) You also assume that I am against a free people being armed, the truth of the matter is I'm not against that in any way. I stand for the second amendment completely, as well as the Bill of Rights in it's entirety. You complain about the courts & government; I'll have to say, your emotions have gotten away from you, but all you've argued here are the same points you argued earlier, that our government is broken... I agree. However, like I stated before, our system needs to be repaired, taken back to the Constitutional form which is proper, and just, secureing freedom for all individuals.
police are out for the States
interests...NOT yours as an individual. They "enforce" codes. You pay the State for that speeding ticket, without proof of "breaking any law". No one was injured, no property was damaged, but you pay the fine .
"If the police come, and you didn't call, they're not there to help." Ronald Reagan........................
revive your State Militias...................
No one's talking about
No one's talking about anarchism here.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
I am
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=anarcho+capitalism&aq=f...
I don't think they're talking about anarchy
There would still be government, but the Federal government would no longer be recognised. The states have their own structures already in place and in many cases they're better organised and have far more integrity. Also, if secession did become a serious possibility, then it wouldn't just be one state, it would be a breakaway group - which is actually already being seriously discussed with a number of states - who in theory could take their states back to precisely the kind of constitutional government you talk about.
The idea that the United States is still governed by a system of checks and balances which are governed by law is a complete myth now, I'm afraid. If it doesn't apply to everybody, then it's worthless, and for many years now those laws have been ignored, overruled or absolutely stomped on when it's suited the powers that be.
=========================
Live Free or Die - Amen to that
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Live Free or Die - Amen to that
Trow d’ bums out!!!
--Cliff, Sioux City, Iowa
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Many people are familiar
Many people are familiar with the truth of this allegorical (?) quote:
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin, 1759
It has been augmented, and impliedly supports secession as:
Democracy: Two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
Representative democracy: Two thousand wolves and one thousand sheep electing two wolves and a sheep who vote on what to have for dinner.
Constitutional republic: Two thousand wolves and one thousand sheep electing two wolves and a sheep who vote on what to have for dinner, but are restricted by a Constitution that says they cannot eat sheep. The Supreme Court then votes 5 wolves to 4 sheep that mutton does not count as sheep.
Liberty: Well-armed sheep contesting the above votes.
Liberty then implies taking secession to its logical end - by rejecting the established government's authority.
marlow
marlow
Never Before
You have to realize and remove the ignorance that never before in the history of the world has a Constitutional Republic EVER been established to become the institution to protect our God given rights. Whether you have a God or not, someone created you to be free and there are bad people out there who want them for their private gain. Therefore we need Government because some people cannot take responsibility for their lives. They just cant. Period
Who is this 'we'
of which you speak, sir? I have no need of government for anything. They do nothing for me, they only steal from me. Those who do not not take responsibility for their lives will not keep them, or be at the mercy of charitable institutions. Your assertion that I need to be coerced to ensure that others will be 'resposible' is reprehensible. You are advocating slavery, sir, and I will not accept it.
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
Yep.....
it is an approach the elitist don't want us t o take, because without the states to give themselves up, then what can they do?!?!?!
Force the Federal Government down our throats again!?!?!
Have another civil war?!?!?!
Russia and China would love for that to happen. It may disrupt commerce for a bit, but leaving the country vulnerable to foreign attacks would probably take place.
__________________________________________________________
"The real terrorist's are in this country and they are not planning to blow us up, but rather, take our money, our freedom, and our country."
__________________________________________________________
"The real terrorist's are in this country. They are not planning to blow us up,......... but rather, take our money, our freedom, and our country."
Response to dalesvp
Yes my writing is simplistic. I am a simple man. I understand, however, when there is a gun being held against my head.
The AARP is not 'people too'. The AARP is a lobbying firm.
We did 'demand' that the government stop wasting our money, vis-a-vis the bailout bill. We were ignored.
America is not 'a long way' from being a corpse. Did you see the governmental pre-emptive strikes against RNC protesters? The bailout? The constant theft of our wealth to fund enterprises that the vast majority of us who live in this geographical area DO NOT approve of? The declaration of anti-war and anti-government protesters as 'terrorists?' Did you approve of any of that nonsense?
No republic in the history of man has lasted longer than 250 years. Sorry if I was vague on this point. None of the existing republics on earth are that old.
"Uhh, who is to be the one to 'educate" or "train" all the totally incompetent individuals out there? To what standard are they to follow? Who is to define that standard? Who is to police those nonconformists who refuse to live by your "new" standard? Wouldn't that put us right back at square one?"
No sir, it does not. This assertion is based out of a fear of others. The idea that people need a 'standard' to follow is nonsense. The idea that people need to be policed is also nonsense. Individuals will take care of themselves. Those who cannot will rely on charity (remember the poorhouse?) to get them to the point where they can. Those who show no interest in self support and have no family to take care of them will perish. I cannot be responsible for perpetuating anyone else's existence unless I choose to do so. Any coercive model of 'helping' the destitute is doomed to failure, because the lazy will destroy it en masse.
What is needed in America today is not idealists, but individualists. What is needed is for Americans to stop worrying about what their neighbors are doing or might do. What is needed is for people to live by their own merits or perish for their lack therein of.
Individuals are the blocks of all society. Society cannot exist without individuals to interact within it. These interactions must be voluntary, or the consequences will look very similar to the police state we live in today.
Thanks
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
Lakota Nation, son!
Lakota Nation, son!
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"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Yes! It worked so well the last time!
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
Nice argument
They'll find you wherever you hide, you know. Men have to live free to be free. The failures of the past are no excuse for inaction today.
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
It did work great though
when the colonists seceded from Britain. What say you to that L.A.S.?
Article 5!
Article 5! Article 5! Article 5!
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
I am starting to realize
I am starting to realize that government independent of Capitalism is ok. And Capitalism independent of the government is ok. But when the two mix together..corruptly such as here.. It doesn't work.
I don't think the world has ever seen true communism..I believe it is more like when local people have control over their smaller communities. That doesn't seem like such a bad thing. And I don't think we have seen much of a true free market either. So it is hard to judge either of them.
Thoughts?
It's part of the human
It's part of the human condition. Just like people, companies are born, live and die, and the same is true of economies, philosophies, languages and nations.
Anything man made, can be unmade.
Libertarianism is an ideal on the rise, whereas the two-party stranglehold is on the downswing. Mind you, if things get very, very bad over the next 5 to 10 years, including more large scale attacks on our people or cities, the US is more likely to sink into a dictatorship or military theocracy than a utopia.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
yup
Fortune Favors the Bold
power corrupts; and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Unfortunately, it tends to be the same at the local level, especially when the rights of minority groups are concerned (and I don't just mean racial minorities, any person or persons who is not in line with the majority)
Fortune Favors the Bold
Yes, strictly speaking for
free-market capitalism to exist, there can be no government. Even a republican gov't is not fully free-market--there is not free competition in the fields of dispute resolution and security.