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**This Is Why G. Edward Griffin Does Not Like Zeitgeist Addendum**

My friend Social Engineer wanted to show you all something. Social Engineer would also appreciate it if he could be un-banned from the Daily Paul, and he promises that he will not flame anymore trolls too hard, if you could be so gracious.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1751668&postcount=4

I don't like to criticize anything that is helping to spread the truth about the Federal Reserve and 9/11 but I must agree with the substance of what you have said about this video. I watched it two nights ago and was deeply disturbed by its message. At first, I thought it would be best to just let it play itself out in expectation that most viewers would cross it off as whacky. However, the production value is high, the effects and sound score are compelling, and there is enough truth embedded in the beginning to capture the attention and possibly the trust of many within the freedom
movement. So here are my comments on a few items of concern:

1. The information about the Federal Reserve is, for the most part, right on target. However, I practically fell out of my chair when the program repeated that old, silly argument about the Fed not creating enough money to cover the cost of interest on debt; and, therefore, the world must forever be in debt. I knew right there that the writer did not read The Creature from Jekyll Island or, if he did, he forgot my analysis of this common myth. For those who are interested in that topic, it is fund on pages 191-192 of The Creature.

2. The next jolt came when the program praised Civil War Greenbacks, calling them debt-free. Actually, Greenbacks were contrary to the U.S. Constitution and, although they were not fiat money issued by the
banks, they were fiat money issued by the government. That was better than paying interest on nothing to bankers, but they still wiped out the purchasing power of American money through massive inflation. They
can not correctly be called debt-free, either, because they represented debt on the shoulders of the government, which means, of course, on the shoulders of the taxpayers. It never ceases to amaze me how people think
that the solution to money created out of nothing by those big, bad bankers is to have money created out of nothing by those nice, trustworthy politicians. Yet, that is what this program supports.

3. There is a lengthy segment in which the author of I Was an Economic Hit Man, John Perkins, tells the story of how propagandists in the U.S. manipulated public opinion to support military action against several Latin American countries. Then Perkins says that these propagandists scared Americans by telling them that the leaders of these countries were Marxists who were aligned with the Soviets. This, of course, is a half truth that is just as dangerous as a total lie. It is true about the propagandists and
their strategy to scare the public into supporting military intervention in those countries, but it is false to portray those dictators as great humanitarians who cared only for the well being of their people. That is total bunk. They WERE aligned with the Soviet Union and they WERE part of a Marxist/Leninist strategy to dominate Latin America; a strategy that continues to this day.

There was plenty not to like on both sides of that struggle, but objective historians would never depict the Rhodesians (the CFR crowd in the U.S.) as bad guys but depict the Soviet puppets as good guys. In his book, Perkins reveals this same slant. He exposes the foul tactics of international corporations, the IMF, and World Bank, but he never mentions a Leftist dictator, such as Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez without praising them. Perkins is a collectivist aligned with the Left, and that strongly influences his telling of this story. Yet the producers of the video make no mention of this bias and give him an inordinate amount of time to present his slanted view without challenge.

4. Perhaps the biggest insult to our intelligence is the main theme of the program. It is that profits are the root of all our problems today. That being the case, we must change mankind to reject profit and we must work together on some other basis. It is never quite clear what that basis is, but, whatever it is, it will be administered and directed by an elite group, at least in the beginning. I was stunned by the fact that this is pure Marxism. Mark theorized that people had to be re-educated (in labor camps, if necessary) to cleanse their minds of the profit motive. He and his disciples, such as Lenin and Stalin and Khruschev, said that, eventually, the character of man would be purged of greed, and then the state would wither away because it no longer would be needed. Sure! We saw that in the Soviet Union and China, right? Yet this Marxist nonsense is exactly what is offered in this video program. It is Communism without using the name.

The profit motive is neither good nor bad. It can be applied either way depending on social and political factors. The desire for profit is merely the desire to be compensated for our labor, our creativity, our knowledge, or even for our risk. Without profit, very little would be accomplished in the world - not even if everyone spent a few years in labor camps to be re-educated. It is a basic part of man's nature and is the mainspring of human progress, as Henry Grady Weaver described it in his book by that same title. Throughout history, whenever man lived in a system that allows him to be rewarded for his work, there has been great productivity and abundance. By contrast, where social engineers gained control of the state and restricted people from receiving the fruits of their labor, productivity fell, and scarcity was the norm.

The profit motive functions differently in different political systems. In a free system where government does not intervene in the market place, the profit motive always will manifest itself as competition, each person or each company trying to deliver better quality products and services at lower prices. That was how it used to be in the early days of America, and that is what led to the greatest outpouring of productivity and abundance the world has ever seen. However, in a collectivist system where government controls every conceivable aspect of economic and commercial activity (the system that now exists in America), the profit motive always manifests itself as a quest for political influence and laws to favor one group over another. The net effect is to eliminate competition in the market place. Under collectivism, success is achieved, not by creating better products and services for less cost, but by controlling legislators and government agencies. It is a system of legalized plunder, as Frederic Bastiat called it in his famous treatise, The Law. Unfortunately, it is the system that dominates most of the world today.

Zeitgeist Addendum ignores this reality. At one point the narrator even says that the greatest evil in the world today is "the free enterprise system." That's an incredible statement, especially inasmuch as the free enterprise system has been dead for several decades. It lives in name only. The whole world now is in the grips of non-competitive monopolies and cartels that have forged partnerships with governments. All of the evils to which this program alludes are the result, not of the free enterprise system, but of
the abandonment of free enterprise and the adoption of collectivism. This program creates a mythological boogeyman and then advocates more of the very thing that has brought us to the mess we are in today.

The enemy of mankind is not profit. It is a political system of big government. Yet, this program is supportive of some of the most notable big-government collectivist on the planet. Marxist/Leninists may be enemies of collectivists in Washington, DC, but they are collectivists in their own right. The Communist model is no better than the Nazi model.

There is much more that could be said about other program topics such as technology supposedly being our salvation, about the a future world in which no one has to work, and about common ownership of land, oceans, natural resources, etc. but, for the most part, these merely are sub issues to the ones already described, so I will spare my readers the pain of further discourse.

In summary, this program does NOT offer a cure. It offers a mega dose of the disease itself.

Ed Griffin, 2008 Oct 9



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To all you idiots who

To all you idiots who actually believe that technology will not improve to the point where we will have humanoids are just plain idiots!

less then 70 years ago people thought that our common technology is out of this world!

some of you people really need to do your home work on up and coming technology and you will soon realize that humanoids are only a generation away.

the main reason why humanoids are on the back burner is because the power source of the robot is not long lasting, but they are now looking into nano tube cells that can last up to twenty hours charged with a few minutes of charge time.

once humanoids become common, they will take over every job thinkable from Mcdonalds to walmart employes.

it may be 100 or 50 years away but it will come. stop being so dam blind!

http://www.addendummovie.com

http://www.youtube.com/user/infospill

http://www.InfoSpill.com

Right On Griffin!!

Zeitgieist betrays itself once it starts to advocate "solutions"
We can all agree on what is wrong with the current paradigm....but.....what separates folks who love liberty and folks who just would like to solve the "problem" is that the latter just offer another form of collectivism. I too read Perkins book Economic Hitman....and you described perfectly what is glaringly wrong about Perkins world view. Castro a good guy??? or any of the other statists were good guys???
These folks (perkins and zeitgeist et al) are important in so far as they are pointing out that the current paradigm is not working but there solutions are just more of the same.

COLLECTIVISM IS THE DISEASE AND ALWAYS WILL BE.

Great Review

The funny thing is I never watched more than 15min of this movie at a time, always stopped because something about it never quite sat right with me.

The Abuse of Greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power. - Shakespeare

I watched part of it and posted it

I watched part of addendum and posted it to my website, when I saw someone talking about it on here a few weeks after the release I quickly took it down. I guess I should have watched it all the way through, but I couldn't imagine drawing the conclusions that he did after being informed about the Federal Reserve. Mind boggling.

"The credit expansion boom is built on the sands of banknotes and deposits. It must collapse.", www.mises.org

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

I can't believe how many of you bash this film.

I can't believe how many of you bash this film.

If you read Griffin's review carefully, it sounds like more of an envious opinion than anything else.

**1. The information about the Federal Reserve is, for the most part, right **on target. However, I practically fell out of my chair when the program **repeated that old, silly argument about the Fed not creating enough **money to cover the cost of interest on debt; and, therefore, the world **must forever be in debt. I knew right there that the writer did not read **The Creature from Jekyll Island or, if he did, he forgot my analysis of **this common myth. For those who are interested in that topic, it is fund **on pages 191-192 of The Creature.

He uses this point to make you go and buy his own book by saying "read pages 191-192 of my book". Why not explain your position instead of making us go and by your book Mr. Griffin?

There are alot of people on other particular forums that disagree with Griffins review.

First of all, Perkins is right on about all of his points. He lived it. Griffin did not. I bet Mr Griffin did not read Perkins "Confessions of an Economic Hitman".
Griffin is another conservative who cannot stand criticism of his own government.

**It is true about the propagandists and
**their strategy to scare the public into supporting military intervention in **those countries, but it is false to portray those dictators as great **humanitarians who cared only for the well being of their people.

So who cares? Griffin nit picks. How Perkins feels about some dictators is a mute point. He points out how he feels a bit sorry for how we conned countries for their resources...and basically "broke" them by enslaving them into "debt".Thus, the "economic hit man".

Alex Jones criticizes the Venus Project part. I think it's an interesting piece NOT meant to taken seriously. Society could not exist under the Venus Project. It's a pipedream, but a an interesting fantasy. It lays out all of our fantasy's for us. The guy Jacques Fresco is a typical "there is life on Mars" type of UFO believer.And on that note, of Peter Joseph included this as to be taken seriously, than we should agree or accept the criticism directed at this segment.
I don't know about anyone else, but I took it as pure "wishful thinking" and "ahhh, if only" and a pure "science fiction" dream.

I guess you can tell that I am one of the very few on this forum who enjoyed the film despite the 2nd half being a pipedream segment.
So, basically -- watch the first half and forget the fantasty segment if your mind is so fragile that it cannot accept such segments at face value.

Madravolt, you seem confused about why you are posting

your comment about an incredibly loaded propaganda video here at DP.

I cannot help but wonder why you attempt to share your 'enthusiasm' for this video?

I sense it may be because you really are not very well read yet.

I do appreciate reading G.Edward Griffin's response to this video again.

I absolutely agree wholeheartedly with those 'alarming' segments he points out that are the true 'intentions' of such a 'dangerous' film.

You fail to convince me, and, it seems, others here, about the validity of the content having valuable solutions presented in this film.

Its suggestible solutions are spiritually, morally, and ethically depressing and terribly flawed. For those 'solutions' to be carried out, we would have to 'become' anything BUT 'human'!!!

Madravolt, do you have any sense at all that there are those on this planet that have so much power and control, that they apply their 'efforts' in the hopes to even 'genetically' modify a human being with the hope to curb their natural inclinations for creativity????

Madravolt, we have been 'messed with'. It is nothing new. Its been going on for centuries!!! You just have to get wise to it. If you are curious about such things read, read, and read until you gather enough facts that point to a pattern that is sure to show up throughout history. See for yourself.

Do you feel there is a powerful, creative intelligence (God) that is the universe and maybe infinite universes? If not, well, that is your choice.

I suggest you read Mr. Griffins' 'Creature of Jekyll Island'. While you are at it go back into history and try to read 'source' documents like letters, speeches, arguments of the Founders of this country.

What was it exactly that they were contending with? You might find out that it is no different than what we contend with today, its just that the morphing is a lot more sophisticated with technologies, yet the 'essence of its evil' remains the same: ultimate control of our energies as 'labor force', and ultimate control of those energies that are especially 'creative'.

Read what Michael Ruppert found out about 9/11 in his 2003 published book, 'Crossing the Rubicon'. (He was the first to speak across campuses in U.S., Canada and Europe, about 9/11 being an inside job since he had been 'on their cases' for many years before following the money).

Read Webster Tarpley's book, 'Obama The Postmodern Coup', and his '911 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA'.

Also while you are at it, read, F.William Engdahl's, 'Seeds of Destruction - The Hidden Agenda of Genetic Manipulation'

Once you read these and gain insight, go back and watch this 'Zeitgeist' film again. See if you feel 'alarmed' by the 'intentions' of such video efforts and what are its probable 'ends'.

Madravolt, this is the kind of propaganda that induces a state of 'hypnosis' and 'programs' a seed into an unwary mind. The only shield that will ward this off is an 'informed' mind. Think about it.

The Book is Free

To madravolt...

Sorry this is so late, but after reading your attack on G.Edward's motives, I am compelled to ask you to re-consider the context. I did not pick up on the 'envy' you speak of, he simply pointed out a fallacy that he addressed in his book that is considered by many, including Ron Paul, to be spot on. He did this because he was asked to give his opinion.

As for providing pages to reference in the book, that is something practiced by the entire scholastic community whenever citing an outside source. In addition, it was provided to someone in a direct email, not to a community or the internet at large, so the idea that he said that just to make money is preposterous. Lastly, the book is available for free online so that again debunks your assumption of his intentions.

Big Brother is not your brother

G. Edward Griffin has awakened more people to the New World Order (including myself) then Peter Joseph does in his Fabian-Utopian wet-dreams.

This article thoroughly debunks Zeitgeist Addendum and its adherents/apologists.

----
Support The Feal Good Foundation. Watch "Dust to Dust" and "Dust to Deceit" to learn about the ongoing 9/11 Holocaust of dying 9/11 First Responders.

----

"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy

There have been moneyless

There have been moneyless communes for hundreds of years. Most last a short time and fall apart. Those that last longer fall apart as they grow or after a generation. Just because some random groups of people who all agree can function for a short time is hardly evidence of a fully functional, relatively long lasting society.

blog of bile
Liberty Activism Repository

Ok and our system has worked???

If living like a slave is the result of our system, I'd rather live in a "commune" and be free. Our system failed to protect itself even with really clear written directions from our founders. Lets not forget that.

FAILure...

This system is built on debt, on fiat currency. It's NOT money, and you can quote Ron Paul on that... ;)

In terms of your kool-aid commune..

Yeah; Anarcho-COMMUNE (ism) It's called a tribe mate. Devoid of civilization.... There is NOTHING stopping you from going to the outback and joining the aborigionals, or the American indians, or the tribes in the Amazon... or setting up your own.

You would rather... well you CAN sell up and leave us to do the fighting, you go and become a hermit in squalor. Please do it fedor, I beg you. :rolleyes:

"What has government done to our money" By Murray Rothbard.

You refuse to read this, because you don't want to know the truth.

The whole premise of this movie is flawed. The dude is clueless about what REAL money is and it's affect on society.

Wake up Fedor, you're a clueless shill mate. CLUELESS.

And if you don't like Rothbard's book... how about RON PAUL'S?!?!?

GOLD, PEACE & PROSPERITY... by Ron Paul
http://mises.org/books/goldpeace.pdf

no shit right?

as if it was all written in some alien language!

"uhhhh......i can't read this thing.........so..............free for all!"

Global Revolution

1. Living in a commune and being free is a contradiction in terms although you are free to go and live in one if you want so why don't you?
2. A system is an abstract concept. Systems don't protect themselves, silly, people protect systems.
3. The system being protected now is corrupt. All the more reason for another war of independence from the present tyranny which is now global.

"the urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."-- H.L. Mencken

"the urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."-- H.L. Mencken

Check out the intro to

Check out the intro to "Zeitgeist Addendum", it's more than just plain aesthetics. First it makes you focus on a single point like a hypnotist, then it incorporates these intense periods of fast flickering strobe like imagery, followed by periods of instant calm. That throws people's brains for a loop without them even really knowing about it, and then induces a far more mesmerized and suggestible state. It's as if it was produced by a PsyOps technician or something, or at least someone who knows brainwashing type techniques.

It's also like what integrators do, they shout and scream at people, then offer them tea and biscuits, then shout and scream at them again, it's a way of breaking down people's mental barriers. The first film's intro also had this type of sequence, presented in a slightly different way with tanks and bombs bombarding people’s senses, with intersecting “serene” moments.

After doing a lot of editing work myself I look at this and think: "what is this guy trying to achieve with a sequence like this?". My conclusion is that he’s trying to produce something that's not designed to please people, but to actually try and reach into their brains a bit, so that information can be sort of more implanted than absorbed and accepted consciously. I don't know, but I certainly don't feel right about Zeitgeist from a technical stand point, it seems rather disturbing and manipulative.

I've done a lot of editing

I've done a lot of editing too and that was the first thing that popped into my head, pretty creepy.

I do enjoy those movies though. I don't agree with everything but there are entertaining and present interesting ideas.

--------------
"So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."

* * * * * * * NEW R3VOLUTION HIP HOP TRACKS!! * * * * * * *
Http://www.YouTube.com/mortisnoctu

An excellent review,

An excellent review, CaseyJones. Thank you for the time and effort. Many forces are trying to pull people in many ways during a time of crisis and change.

As for money and profit, in my view, money is a tool, a convenience, neither inherently good nor evil. If I have chickens to trade and need lumber, you want chickens but have potatoes to trade, exchanges using a more universal value such as money is far more convenient than both of trying to track all the intermediate trades necessary for me to find lumber to trade for and you finding someone with chickens who needs potatoes. The money, of course, needs to have an intrinsic value of its own, or the system will ultimately fail when someone in power gives his products an artificially high value or decrees that I may no longer raise chickens that compete with his brother-in-law's business.

Profit is a motivator. Why should anyone work all day to support the the system that makes him work all day? I will gladly work all day to feed my child and my animals. I will work even harder if I have enough left to buy some flowers and vegetables for my garden, maybe some paint to make our home more attractive. I will not do more than the absolute minimum if the results of my labor is going to be given to some lazy fat-a$$ who sits home all day and demands something for nothing. Honest profit is good, using government to steal someone else's profit is evil. That is where we are now. I don't see anything obscure or mysterious about that. We are a socialist nation with delusions of past freedom.

Pat

BOHICA!!

Pat

BOHICA!!

Marxist infiltration

I agree with those who've already caught on...this is an attempt to infiltrate and trick the nondiscerning, a corruption of the liberty message. This is how the Fabian Marxists work, it is how they have taken over the Republican Party completely and silenced any true libertarian, small government viewpoint.

Liberty?? How...."fringe"...how "unrealistic"....how passe. We are all Marxists now, comrade, talking the collectivist talk and walking the collectivist walk, planning utopian "societies", atheistic heavens on earth where there is no "greed", "hate", "ignorance", poverty, illness, etc..

And free ice cream and puppies for all!

Spot on. Thanks.

----
Support The Feal Good Foundation. Watch "Dust to Dust" and "Dust to Deceit" to learn about the ongoing 9/11 Holocaust of dying 9/11 First Responders.

----

"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy

Listen friends, this movie

Listen friends, this movie has tremendous value to the uninitiated layperson that hasn't a clue about how things work in the world. The Venus Project has some great ideas, especially with regard to energy. It has other ideas that we know mankind isn't ready or willing to try and attain. Take from the movie what you want and leave the rest on the cutting room floor.
The filmmaker is trying his best to give people a glimpse of a world without:

WAR
POVERTY
DESTRUCTION

I applaud him for that.

Puppets come and puppets go but the world's stage is getting cluttered.

To bad the movie pushes

To bad the movie pushes anti-free trade, anti-money twaddle on a multitude of young minds that are not sufficienntly trained in economics to see through this nonsense, thereby contributing to yet another generation that will vote against freedom, as Addendum told them profit, money and free trade are bad.

marlow

marlow

Well in terms of what you

Well in terms of what you consider "profit, money and free trade" these people are merely suggesting we should re-think what that is. That's fine by me. You could still "profit" depending upon your merit. The cream rises to the top in all economies. The problem with what we have today is that the "free market" is neither free nor a real market. Imho we have a corporatist structure that props up the established wealthy elite. Anytime you use the government to enrich or insulate your business through rules, regulations and law against competition you're engaging in protectionist corporatism. Over time the benefits to everyone in the system become less and less. We need a resetting to occur. I admit there are no perfect answers and no perfect systems.

Puppets come and puppets go but the world's stage is getting cluttered.

No they are NOT...

[...] these people are merely suggesting we should re-think what that is.

No that is most certainly NOT what they are doing. What they are doing i "maneuvering" the viewer's train of thoughts through the movie so that they are not only willing to abandon everything they know of common sense, but will instead adopt the propaganda's viewpoint without examining or questioning its practicality.

Giving this piece to an "uninitiated layperson" (your choice of term there is interesting in several ways ...but I digress) -- giving this piece to an "uninitiated layperson that hasn't a clue about how things work in the world" is the equivalent of feeding your child a bowlful of sickly sweet cereal that is laced with Aresenic. As you have stated in your definition of the person, they are "clueless" about how things REALLY work in the world... ergo they have little or no knowledge or experience to use as a discerning filter or gauge to determine what are lies and what is true.

This thing is not merely "less than perfect" -- it is specifically designed to be "sweet" in certain specific ways so that the "poison" goes undetected -- it is designed to "initiate" some one into the "priesthood" of socialism.

Perfect Answer: No Universal System Pretending Perfection

I agree with xcited defense of this film. I also agree with Griffin’s substantive additions, and respect those with trepidations over the exposure of innocents. But I think critics are way off base to claim it promotes socialism or that Zeitgeist’s theme is:

“…we must change mankind to reject profit and we must work together on some other basis. It is never quite clear what that basis is, but, whatever it is, it will be administered and directed by an elite group, at least in the beginning.”

True, the merit of the invisible hand of the profit motive is not promoted, or even reconciled in the flick. This is a legitimate objection. But I heard nothing about administration and direction by elite groups except by way of correct indictment of the inherently corrupt status quo.

If the movie didn’t go far enough to explain that totalitarianism and communism are bad, I say we take a breath and consider the author’s intended audience. No one needs to tell me decentralization, voluntary association, nonaggression, and property rights are indispensible, all of which, I agree, were not developed in this installment of Zeitgeist. Except for these omissions, I had no problem with the film as far as it went.

Frankly, I suspect many who reacted vicerally to this film are tender over an issue the movie only subtlely raised which many conservatives are certainly not prepared to embrace. And that is: We don't need a universal system. Voluntary exchange........Freedom.......unleashes creativity and an abundance of good things. It isn't a system at all. It is the tolerance of an absence of system. To appreciate this, and the benefits which might flow from its regard, we are all still babes in the woods.

I understand the concern of those who clamor that Zeitgeist may cause confusion in impressionable minds for what it left out. But I suggest we use the stir the film may cause to approach the minds opened by it to supply the rest of the story. More substance; less clamor. Less stridency; more guidance that artfully avoids being categorized as an apology for the corporatism which is not free enterprise; or the managed trade which is not free trade; or the fascist monetary regime which is not free market republican capitalism.

These old paradigms are being repudiated. Let’s not foster confusion by insistence on old semantics. As the turbid dirty bath water of this failed system swirls around the drain let’s splash around in the rinse to make sure our precious concerns don’t go out with the swill, but rather rise to the top of a clear fresh unadulterated surface.

thank you

someone had to say it. Venus Project is total garbage. the movie is propaganda mixed with enough truth on 9/11 and fiat money to fool the uneducated.

agreed

If anyone has read Rothbard, Mises or Ron Paul, Addendum is the opposite of what they are talking about. Addendum is anarcho-communism. Everyone owns everything. Murray Rothbard argues the opposite in his book The Ethics of Liberty. All Ron Paul supporters should read the book.

So sorry, Marlow

You may be on the wrong website. The creator of this site called it "genius". So go ahead and start the name calling. Seems a bit foolish. All you have to do .......is leave. Simple.

Hi Fedor, I bet you enjoy this comment.

You are so awfully ignorant. You have proven that you have totally:
No respect for the founders;
have no respect for Ron Paul;
have no respect for liberty;
and no respect for this Dailypaul community.

You are trying to enforce your crazy communistic no money society on us, and you never get in depth on well thought out comments you receive. You are the worst of the worst when we talk about TROLLS. I would recommend Michael Nystrom strongly to use his power to remove you from this forum.

When I spoke out earlier my hope that you might sometimes think of the Libertarian founders of the US constitution, who fought and died for you to have the right to live that way, you replied " fought and died,then lost it".

I mean, what are you doing here.. GO AWAY..

-- Chuck Baldwin is closest to RP's message. --

Sometimes peoples first

impressions are different than their last.

Maybe it's time to cool down a bit friend. This is the daily paul, not the daily zeitgeist...I think zeitgeist has its own website now BTW.

www.baldwin08.com - Chuck Baldwin or New World Order!

You've got it wrong. What

You've got it wrong. What name-calling? Just frustration that you won't address our concerns and consistently call for a moneyless society while ignoring all our attempts to explain why modern societies cannot function without them. And, awareness that your attempts to create a moneyless ideal can only be acheived by government force. Sure, I could just leave but for some reason keep hoping to reach that kernal of rationality inside you.

I liked parts of Addendum but certainly don't see it as "genius". And plenty of intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate people concur as to its flaws.

marlow

marlow

Yeah I think we got this debate sewn up

1) We're not pushing anything on anyone
2) We're just floating ideas and that's not illegal unless you're outside of a free speech zone
3) We got real examples of people living off the grid
4) Everyone who attacks never mentions they want to end the fed too, all they can do is attack our idea.

It's really pathetic cause I'm allowed to think whatever I want and I never force anyone to do anything I wouldn't, but some people feel its their right to thrust their ideas in my face and accuse me of being "manipulated" or "on an acid trip" because I don't believe whatever made up garbage they happen to think. Real patriotic and independant when people mock those with free thoughts.