Where is the inflation?
Submitted by uconntraxtar on Fri, 10/10/2008 - 06:44
It seems that the timing is right for massive hyperinflation: the Fed is pumping trillions into the markets and foreigners must have no faith left in our dollar. But it seems that the dollar is holding strong. We are gaining on foreign currencies, gold and silver have been relatively stagnant in terms of the dollar, and oil prices are dropping quickly. How is this?
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The Fed pumping trillions of dollars into the markets
is the inflation. Classically, inflation is defined as too much money chasing too few goods. Conversely, deflation is defined as too little money chasing too many goods. Both inflation and deflation are monetary, not price phenomenon. We may be seeing a fall in prices in the futures markets for whatever reasons; but it is only a matter of time before this ends and the extra money being pumped into the system translates into higher prices.
If there is deflation going on, then why am I still paying $10 To $12 for a cheeseburger?
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You wrote, "Classically, inflation is defined as too much money chasing too few goods."
But, in order for the "too much money" to chase "too few goods", the "too much money" has to be distributed widely, in my opinion. It just not reasonable to expect a small group of super rich people to visit grocery stores nation wide, for example.
As far as I can see, we have an economic structure that the wealth is too concentrated and increased money supply does not get distributed.
In other words, even if the total money supply was increasing (I don't think so, but), the money supply among people excluding the top 10% richest people might be decreasing, in my opinion.
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Almost right
You are correct that the effects of inflation do not move instantly or evenly through the economy. You are ALSO correct that those who get the new money first actually benefit from inflation because they have more money that will still be accepted at the old value rather than the soon-to-be diluted value. And the last people to get the new money get screwed because they pay the higher prices before they get the new money. This uneven movement of inflation is one of the reasons that ANY level of inflation is bad.
However, the new money poured into the hands of, for example, bankers, eventually works its way through the economy and causes a general rise in price levels. Think about it - unless the people who get the newly created money just stuff it in their mattress, it gets spent. Say they buy a new yacht. The money goes to the yacht company. The yacht company pays its suppliers and its employees. The suppliers pay THEIR employees. Now a big chunk of the new money is in the hands of hourly wage workers at the yacht company and the companies that supply the yacht company. Then those hourly workers go to Walmart or McDonalds etc. Voila! The new money is in circulation helping to drive up prices..
Well, it looks to me that money is going to DUBAI before coming
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to us.
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Inflation will come,
when the stock market hits rock bottom.
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Isn't it massive deflation
Isn't it massive deflation that happens in a depression?
Like right now?
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
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government of the people, by the people, for the people
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two types of
two types of depressions...one deflationary the other inflationary, but it is not uncommon to have elements of both during a depressionary trough.
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ya, unless it's a
ya, unless it's a hyperinflationary depression. The thing about hyperinflationary depressions is that they are predicated upon massive amounts of deflation, which is exactly what we have right now. Whether this spins out of control into hyperinflation we have yet to see.
wait for it... wait for
wait for it... wait for it...
(it takes a while for all of that money to equilibrate around the system and wholesale devalue the dollar)
here is your inflation
http://www.cnbc.com/id/27097823
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Inflation isn't taking hold
Inflation isn't taking hold yet sierra. Nobody is saying that it will never occur, it just isnt happening right now. We are deflating and the central bankers are trying to reinflate. They can't keep up with the deflation though at this point, hence all the problems. Whether they over do the liquidity injections we shall see after the deflationary spiral is averted. Im not going to argue with you. That IS what's occuring right now. If you don't have any logical response other than posting jim sinclair don't bother responding at all k.
also you should study what
also you should study what Sinclair says.. just like Schiff and Ron Paul ,
he has been spot on! I for the life of me can not understand why people do not listen to these men! instead they listen to some dimwit like jzneff who is either a government paid blog cheerleader or he is a stock trader!
go read his posts! everytime he is presented with something just like the article I posted from Sinclair he comes up with a one word defense.. "weak" that is because he can't refute what Sinclair said.. HELL atleast I am humble enought to admit I don't know everything and I may post Jim Sinclair quite abit.. but Sinclair has the Resume.. that 30 year old punk kid Jzneff doesnot.. Sinclair lived this type of market before JZNEFF was still sucking his mommies tit! but Yet JZ thinks he has a doctorate in economics! he called the oil price and I give him a cookie for that! but it did not come down because of what he said.. that was specualtion.. it is destruction of demnd and we have that because we are heading into a depression.. we have been in a recession now for a year..
Neo go read Sinclairs resume.. who he has been involved with.. he is the absolute expert in derivatives.. derivatives is whats killing us! as JZ sits there and cheerleads you better read between the lines and find those who really know what is going on with this economy! if you do not you are going to get run over!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
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really neo how much did you
really neo how much did you pay for a gaollon of milk 2 years ago vs today? clothong? gas to heat your house, gasoline for your car... umm pay for automobile repairs? you have deflation in some areas.. you have inflation in others.. houses, stocks etc going down.. anything you need to live going up! whats going to be funny is when oil does an about face here pretty soon!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
Um... that wasn't Jim
Um... that wasn't Jim Sinclair. It was Jim Rogers.
That said... you should probably pay attention to what it was he actually said. When we -come out of this-, we'll have inflation and possibly even hyperinflation. He's saying that the inflation will come once the market reaches bottom. What's happening presently is a liquidation that results in deflation (for now).
yup, on the net and in your head
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
---
government of the people, by the people, for the people
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INFLATION OF INFLATION PREDICTIONS ON THE NET?
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
---
government of the people, by the people, for the people
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here is your inflation!
OPINION OCTOBER 8, 2008 We Won't Suffer a Japanese Deflation
The risk here and now is inflation.By DAVID GITLITZArticle
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As U.S. credit markets continue to be roiled in chaos, some are bandying about the notion that America's problems resemble those of Japan in its deflationary "lost decade" of the 1990s. "Deflation looms. It certainly does loom," said one functionary for a major international bank. "The cycle in which debt destruction and asset price destruction reinforce each other clearly has a very, very, strong negative effect on the economy."
This analysis expresses a common fallacy that asset-price declines give rise to economic weakness, and the effect is therefore deflationary. But "deflation" is not a synonym for economic contraction. Deflation is rather a sustained decline in the overall price level, i.e., the opposite of inflation. Like inflation, deflation is a monetary phenomenon.
There is no evidence that deflationary influences are now at work in the U.S. economy. I was very familiar with the Japanese deflation, having been the first to recognize and name it in a 1995 op-ed on this page. I was exposed to considerable public criticism by the Bank of Japan at the time, but history has shown my diagnosis to be entirely correct.
Aside from some superficial similarities, the current U.S. financial market disturbance bears no resemblance to the economic misery that afflicted Japan for more than a decade, and in important ways continues to linger there. In fact, the comparison should provide some comfort to Americans. U.S. monetary conditions are nearly the exact opposite of the devastating deflation that characterized the Japanese experience.
The U.S. had its real-estate bubble through the first six years or so of the current decade, and on the surface, that might seem comparable to the real-estate bubble that preceded Japan's decade of deflation. Our bubble had its roots in the Fed's exceptionally accommodative monetary policy -- a situation not unlike Japan through the late 1980s, when the Bank of Japan was also too easy for too long. But unlike the Fed, the BoJ turned toward tightness with a vengeance, apparently with the objective -- at least initially -- of pricking the bubble.
Japanese land prices began their long fall in 1991 on the heels of a sharp currency appreciation in 1990, with the yen soaring nearly 20% against both the dollar and gold. That was just the beginning. By 1995, the yen/dollar would see a nearly 50% appreciation, and the BoJ's deflationary bias remained in place for a number of years. The relentless rise in the currency's purchasing power magnified the real burden of yen debt, crushing borrowers and crippling the Japanese banking system.
Contrast that with the U.S. experience, in which the decline in real-estate values would coincide not with a deflationary appreciation of the dollar, but an inflationary depreciation. From the time home prices peaked in mid-2006 through the currency's lows last spring, the trade-weighted value of the dollar fell by some 18%. Over the same period, the price of gold rose by about 75%. While the dollar has rebounded moderately in the last several months, by any objective measure it remains in a weak position. On a trade-weighted basis, it has returned to its levels of about a year ago. But before doing so, it had never been weaker. At around $830 in gold terms, the dollar has recovered a modicum of the purchasing power lost when gold soared above $1,000 last March in the midst of the Bear Stearns calamity. But at current levels the price of gold is double what it was four years ago.
The relative damage to real-estate values between the U.S. and Japan is instructive. Thus far, U.S. home prices have fallen about 12.5% from their peak. But they remain about 40% above their 2000 levels. In Japan, by 2001 the destruction of values brought land prices down to about half their levels of the late 1980s.
The U.S. housing downturn and associated financial-market turbulence is attributable not to tight monetary conditions, but to an unsustainable speculative bubble triggered by loose monetary conditions. The current market turmoil might well put the economy into at least a shallow and short-lived recession. But unlike Japan, the U.S. economy will not have to dig its way out of a debilitating, long-lasting monetary deflation.
On the contrary, the current economic climate is marked by a considerable upswing in inflation, with the headline consumer price index now running at about 5.4%, up from less than 2% a year ago. The decline in crude oil prices will keep down the reported rate for a few months. But once oil stops falling, the underlying inflationary influences will reassert themselves, and no sizeable long-lasting decline in reported inflation is likely in the foreseeable future.
The "lost decade" of stagnation and monetary deflation, and its remaining legacy today, were the product of a persistently too-tight Bank of Japan. The Fed was not tight even before the present crisis, and as the crisis has unfolded has gotten progressively easier. Today, America's real concern is inflation.
Mr. Gitlitz is chief economist at Trend Macrolytics, LLC.
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Still at a very early stage of
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
---
potentially a decade or more long DEFLATION, in my opinion.
government of the people, by the people, for the people
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Cantillon Effects
In addition to inflation happening gradually, it also happens unevenly.
This is called the "Cantillon effect."
It takes time for the entire economy to reach a kind of equilibrium.
I have also heard of the 6 months estimate, however I believe that's under circumstances where money velocity is considered "normal" (whatever that is).
As people lose trust in the monetary system I'm guessing that that 6 month period would shorten because of increased velocity of money (people get rid of dollars like a hot potato).
Explanation here
Here is a succinct explanation -
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/023399.html
DEFLATION ROCKS....
The little man , comman man can actually afford to BUY things with money and not need CREDIT. After the plague of the dark ages and the population was decimated. The serfs all of the sudden could own land and become independent farmers. Deflation is the natural order of progress.
As technology and prosperity increases , goods and services become cheaper. This is how a economy on Real money works..
Properity = Lower Prices...
Deflation is the way of the Civilization of the Universe of ever expanding knowledge, prosperity, liberty, true growth, production, happiness, health and immortality.
Inflation is the way of the Anti-Civilization of debt and false money, servitude, atrophy, consumption, sickness based economy doomed to die...
Out of the plague the Renessance was born.
Out of the Ashes of the Anti-Civilization...
The true civilization of liberty concieved by our founders can manifest.
Who is wearing the Tin Hat Now?
Who is "Quixoxtic" now? You MSM bastards...
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I think it will get harder to
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
--
earn money in deflation, so things are likely to become less affordable in my opinion.
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Over inflated markets deflating is generally a good thing
It isn't deflating in the best possible way, but still I see this generally as a good thing.
New money pumped into the
New money pumped into the money supply does not immediately have much of an impact on inflation. It takes a little time. We will see the full impact of inflation once all the money is in the hands of many people. Then we will have too many people with too many dollars to spend and prices will rise due to the competition of those spending the dollars, as well as the dilution of the purchasing power of those dollars.
I read somewhere a while back that new money takes approximately 6 months to have a significant impact on inflation and the value of the currency.
...
If goods aren't delivered because
the retailer can't get credit from the wholesaler
the wholesaler can't get credit from the distributor
the trucks/railroads/ships can't get credit from the manufacturer
the manufacturer can't get credit from the raw materials producer and/or farmer
the raw materials producer can't get credit
the farmer can't get credit
etc. etc. etc.
the sales, distribution, manufacturing, are slowed/stopped
then you'll have a lot of Federal Reserve Notes and other worthless paper currencies that have been introduced into the system for liquidity's sake chasing too few goods.
Then you have Weimar Republic era inflation.
You missed a big factor
Weimar inflation was caused by much more than what you described above. That is a deflationary recession/depression, not closely related to the Weimar hyperinflation.
The Weimar problem occured due to a massive money print during the war, and massive material shortages at the same time. People had money, but nothing to spend it on. This is hidden inflation.
The war reparations were a massive part of it. Germany had to give away some very profitable cash cow businesses to the allies. Coal and other natural resources became England's.
Then they owed a ton of money, which wasn't a big deal as long as England would accept marks, but they didn't. England wanted gold, Germany didn't have close to enough. England would also accept other countries' T bonds...and the hyperinflation began when the world stopped accepting marks for T bonds.
We do not have too much money chasing too little goods, in fact quite the opposite.
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Obviously the factors are slightly different
I'm not saying we're going back in time to Germany's Weimar Republic, but we could see, as Jim Rogers says, an inflation holocaust. But for the fun or it, let's review your checklist of Weimar Republic factors:
Massive money printing (or digital creation) - check
Massive material shortages - soon, see credit description above and already being alluded to on CNBC
They (then Germany, now US) owed a ton of money - check
That was okay until others (then, England, now China, Japan) decided they didn't want paper (then marks, now FRNs) - soon
They wanted gold, which they (then Germany, now US) didn't have enough - check (just wait for the gold paper implosion)
Hyperinflation began when the world stopped accepting T bonds
EXACTAMUNDO!!!
Not the same
Massive printing in Weimar means a 5-fold increase in the amount of money in 4 years, and that money being stuffed in mattresses until the war was over. (uncheck) American's have not stockpiled this money, they've spent it.
Massive material shortages - Don't count on it
They owed a ton of money - We owe roughly a quarter of one year's GDP to our creditors. Germany owed it's GDP many times over.
If England and China decided they don't want paper...what can they do about it? If Germany refused to pay after WW1, the war would be back on. We may owe them money, but it's on our terms and not theirs. They will take our money or go piss up a rope, and they know it.
They might want gold from us, but you can want in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled up.
The world is not going to stop accepting T bonds from us. In fact, they're tripping over themselves right now to own more.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php