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ZEITGEIST WAS RIGHT !Check this out! Earthaven Ecovillage, Zeitgeist was right, HOPE

This is a great place, full of great people. They have a wonderful community. A great cafe and great homemade beer!! There is hope.

http://www.earthaven.org/

*please note, a small group of members are angry Mike (creator of this website) and I found Zeitgeist "interesting". They are now attacking the concept of an ecovillage. Real freedom loving Patriots.

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What would you do for a Flying Car?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsFfBB2W7IA

Would you trade your liberty for a flying car?

And chemical toilets? I've used one at work on a construction site. I prefer the "regular" toilet myself.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iYZM58dulPE

http://www.freedom-force.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=m...

Zeitgeist part 3: http://www2.b3ta.com/mind-control/

Flying car?

I never saw one. It is possible, but if you saw the addendum movie then you saw they advocate NOT flying. Either way it doesn't matter that's not the point. Try to stay on topic. I've proven toilets already clean themselves with the right techology. Got any other real world tasks that robots can't do?

So I take it you didn't click on the link?

Or if you did, you didn't catch the point of it.

Would you trade your liberty for a flying car?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsFfBB2W7IA

Zeitgeist part 3: http://www2.b3ta.com/mind-control/

I'm sure you're a brave patriot Brit4Ron,

pick up the phone and call them. They will answer all your questions.

Thats funny

You're telling someone what you want them to do and are labeling them if they don't comply, and you're also accusing them of forcing others into their worldview. It's pretty easy to be a dictator, as long as you're the dictator, eh?

Haha, you are funny Brit.

I'm planning something else with friends and family. Should be great. Earthaven has done a lot of learning. I will attend classes there and do it right on our land. Hope you are well, brother.

Thank you

Good luck also.

I mean it sincerely when I say I am happy for you

Anytime I hear about clusters of people dropping offa the grid Im encouraged. There was a movie- a classic social commentary called "EasyRiders"...perhaps more potent even than Zeitgeist in many ways. Starred Peter Fonda, Dennis Hopper & Jack Nicholson. 3 guys just wanting to take a road trip on their bikes. At one point in the movie they stumble across a hippie commune. Folks that did the love-ins the Summer prior and were really hardcore about dropping out. Their hearts were definitely in the right place- but they hadnt thought it all through. The soil was unforgiving and they were planting too late in the season. But they were hacking away at it. Really hard times. Dennis Hopper's character whispers to Peter Fonda's "I dont think theyre going to make it." and Fonda watching this weary, beat down skinny kid using what little energy had in the baking sun trying to work the land replies, "Yeah...they'll make it." You have the advantages they didnt. You can learn from others mistakes as well as from those who are making a go of it. I really do wish you all the best in your endeavor.

Live Free or Diebold

There are some good people who have lived this way

for years. Earthaven is an example. They created these communities for themselves and to be teaching centers. Many of them are very smart and well educated. they have embraced technology and are using it. They have made it easy to live comfortably and healthy off the grid, etc.... True Patriots. reminds me of our forefathers getting on ships and sailing off to the wild forest of America.

The idea of these communities is great.

And agreed- you cant get any closer to the pioneer spirit than that. I like an America where free people can do that if they choose to. But at the same time I love the idea of a gold back currency for those who dont mind the grid- as long as its the way it should be. Id like to drive my electric up to your non-grid community on my way to the town auction and trade you some of the double D batteries I picked up at a garage sale on the way for some of your organic strawberries. Id like that America.

Live Free or Diebold

I agree

The freedom to use both would be great

Earthaven is not a commune and why do some of

you have to insult these good patriots? They do address the question of a transition. Of course I have stated this over and over. Some of us are trying to move on and discuss other topics. So, Earthaven may be part of the transition process the movie suggested.

It is no insult to call them a commune

Technically they cant really be defined as such...but if they WERE, thats totally cool with me : ) Who amongst us hasnt at one time or other fancied the idea of taking all of your friends and moving onto a tropical island and playing Gilligan's Island or whatever- no stress from the man and freedom to just "be". I admire the whole concept- even envy those SMALL groups that can pull it off- but the Zeitgeist model globally? yikes

Live Free or Diebold

true, although some members accused them of drug use, etc

so it's hard to think "commune" was a compliment.

"ZEITGEIST WAS RIGHT!" ?

Zeitsheist is LOADED with true statements- No one is disputing that. People have been living on the land in small, like-minded communities since Hector was a pup-but its a reach to say that this fact is a "debate slam-dunk", my friend. A sucsessful commune in no way addresses the problems that people have with the concepts proposed by the movie.

Live Free or Diebold

Well that ole handful of DP gangsters is back

I understand some people dislike this movie. We got it. Is it possible for some of us to have a positive thread about exploring a transition away from money and toward peace?? Some of you are getting pretty nasty. I'm trying to have a civil thread. Seriously there is enough happening in the world without creating conflict here. I made an effort to change my tune, please do the same.

While changing your tune how

While changing your tune how about also responding to the numerous criticisms of Addendum with regard to its anti-money stance - which you find so appealing but is appalling for those of us who have studied free market economics. No matter how much analysis we present explaining why society cannot long function without money wherein a price system serves to guide use of resources in a productive manner you persist in post after post to denigrate the necessary conditions for a free prosperous society - that is, free markets, private property rights, a commodity based monetary system.

BTW, I appreciate parts of the movie - those on fiat money and US imperialistic CIA interventions in other countries.

I too prefer civility. I also seek a better world, but must point out another major disagreement with you. Your post above equates a moneyless society with peace. This implies a society that uses money is prone to war. The flaw is that in free markets, wherein money facilitates exchange, and exchange (and for that matter the entire libertarian ediface) is based on mutual consent, volunteerism, wherein people are explicitly rejecting the use of coercion - which is the hallmark of war. And were a moneyless society exist, it would do so very temporarily as it would break into an orgy of war simply because without money serving to allow rational production, necessities would dry up and, as buying and selling would no longer exist, the only way people could get most necessities would be by force - rioting, civil breakdown, war.

marlow

marlow

Marlow, we are exploring a time when humanity is DIFFERENT

When humanity turns inward and makes a change in their perception. Some are farther along then others. So, we are exploring, discussing, etc. You are correct, you could never take this world's population, right now, and take away money. It would never work. There needs to be a transition. These ecovillages represent this transition, to me.

Here's my alternative

OK, you're exploring alternative futures, one being, forgive me if the term is inappropriate, communal living - or communitarian maybe, one in which people are connected to their neighbors, very unlike the anonymity of a great deal of big city or suburban life where many people don't know neighbors they've lived next to for years. Yes, there would be a greater degree of neighborliness. Fine with me. Such a life is consistent with libertarianism. And the people in such a community may focus on producing any number of products. And they can do so as unpaid members of their local, volunteeristic collective. Hey, if members of society choose to live in thousands of such communities in which the members did not get paid, that's fine too. But for such a world to exist, all these communities would have to exist in an over-arching free-market environment, wherein they trade among themselves, and this trade would itself require the use of money.

Let me us the example of an essay by Herbert Read, entitled, "I, Pencil". Its been years since I read it but a rough summary is that the creation of something as insignificant as a pencil actually requires immense social cooperation. Mines are required for the graphite, mining tools and trucks are necessary to obtain it. It must be processed which in turn requires industrial facilities. More great machines are required to cut and shape the graphite, enormous numbers of workers are required for all this from those designing and producing the machines, factories, trucks, etc. And the wood for the pencil also requires enormous social cooperation prior to ever cutting down a tree. Saws of various types must be made, which in turn requires iron mines and all the machinery of those mines. Saw mills must be created, workers must be trained for every step of the production process. Then you have the paint. The provision of paint also requires an enormous prior productive process, machinery to make it. The ingrediants must be obtained from many sources. Then, too, there is the metal casing at the end that holds the rubber eraser. This small metal casing must have required a long production process as well, as does the provision of rubber, which requires a people to have harvested rubber and processed it and made it available for use by others. Ultimately, a pencil is made from these products. Thousands upon thousands of people will have been involved in the various activities that allowed for the eventual creation of that pencil. How in the world could all these people be coordinated to act in such a way to allow the pencil's creation without prices and monetary payment as an incentive and a means to provide sustenance for these workers AND as a means to tell the producers at every step how much demand there is for that particular possible use of any given resource or product. Even if these workers were unpaid in their respective communes the commune itself would require income to buy the necessities for its workers. Barter would be impossible. Assume a commune makes machinery for a mill. It needs to feed its workers. It can't trade a large piece of machinery for the food it needs. Ultimately, the world of communes would have to turn to money to facilitate exchange among themselves. And money prices would emerge for the products of each, which would indicate whether what they were producing is valued by the wider world of communes. If what they make can't cover the cost of necessities they require for their members support they will have to change to producing products that will or the commune will fold.

Thus, this is my contribution. Have as many communal settlements as you people are willing to join. It could be an entire world full of communes for all I care. But they must exist within a free market environment. The commune filled world will fall apart if these communes don't use a monetary system among themselves to coordinate rational use of resources. Historically, such communal groups have occasionally arisen and produced their own goods - which they sold into the broader world. Nothing stops more such groups from forming except government via taxes, regulations, eminant domain etc. But still they can form. The fact not many people choose to live this way indicates such a lifestyle does not appeal to most people. But go ahead and try to convince others to adopt such a view and lifestyle. In an environment of liberty no one would try and stop you.

marlow

marlow

Anyone who wants to live without their money

please feel free to deposit it into my bank account. Only have to ask and I will pass on my account number.

oh hannah don't be silly

no one suggested doing that right now. We are talking about a transition away from money or letting the humans that really like to play with money do that and allowing others to find another way. That seems fair. Although the money people sometimes get upset when others don't want to play monopoly.

LOL

whatever may be the case, I thought I get in first.. My offer still stands ;)

I will send you everything

except my canadian coins, they look cool and I can use them as fish lures.

awww... you ar not talking about the silver maple leaf coins

are you? If so, I would do a bid as I can use them to make colloidal silver. Hard to find them.

I think it's funny how stupid this idea is

There have been many thousands of cultures on earth and still are. The suggestion is, we free everyone from their own morals and values, then take away their money and self determination and call it bliss. I'd call that slavery of the worst kind. And it's like no one has ever seen terminator, ior the matrix, or I robot. giving your life to machines could backfire. Besides there are a lot of us who would rather not play in that game, do you just exterminate us?

of course not

you are free to play your "money" game. All the monopoly you can handle. We are not interested. Lets see who smiles more :)

How about the morals, values, heritage, traditions and

self-determination? Put aside money. Talk about humans. I heard plenty of talk about machines and evil in that movie but very little about core human values and culture. Running around the world trying to convince everyone how to live "the right way" is what got the western world into trouble in the first place.