Can non-Christians handle the Truth?
Submitted by G Class Stat on Mon, 10/20/2008 - 08:09
Its been asked recently: "Can Christians handle the truth?". The answer is of course Yes. The question really is: "Can you handle Christianity?".
http://www.etherzone.com/2008/mako102008.shtml
This is an amazing article by one of my favs, Henry Makow. He is really informative, truely understands the global conspiracy we face, and really puts things in perspective.
Ive been saying it for a long time now, and some people laugh at me (because they cannot understand); "All we need to provide in schools is a Bible and a newspaper. Everything else stems from that". I think this article kind of validates that opinion of mine.
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Your title makes no sense ...
I am a practicing Catholic.
There is no truth in faith.
If there were, then it wouldn't be faith.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
If by "faith" you mean that
If by "faith" you mean that which one believes to be reality, then yes indeed faith can equal truth if that faith is in fact in accordance with reality.
Faith may or may not be blind, but it is not necessarily, as you say, the lack of truth.
An accurate or correct faith will mirror what the objective truth of reality is.
Not true ...
Faith pre-exists truth. And truth must be allowed to grow without jeopardizing faith.
They are not related.
If you attempt to relate them, then you have a chance of being proven right or wrong. In either case it will no longer be faith. At which point, even if you are a christian and God has been proven to exist, you will not be saved because salvation requires faith, of which you will have none.
You either have faith or you don't, it has no bearing on this world.
This is the great paradox of Theology.
Keep it simple ...
Choose faith or don't. Regardless, truth will always be.
As for me ...
I can not explain it, but faith brings meaning to my life.
It allows me to think the way I do, to grow, to remain planted, it gives me a foundation.
If it can be proven true or false, then it is not part of my faith.
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994
I have enjoyed reading Henry Makow's site for many years now
and I can say I have learned so much over the years thanks to him.
Addressing your question Can non-Christians handle the truth? is a loaded question only because there are Christians who are not Christians but 'club members'. There are philosophic Christians who question and think. There are devout dogmatic Christians that believe their way is the only way and their mission is to impose that on others or they will burn in hell, so they have to 'save' those folks. There are Christians who treat Christianity as a marketing ploy to fund raise for their exclusive club and feel it is their 'right' to tell people who to vote for while enjoying non-profit status. There are Christians who believe the teachings of Jesus are to be practiced in life, to pray in a quiet place away from others, their beliefs are not talked about and the church does not have the dibs on God/Creator. And if I've included everyone here, there are people who could be called 'Christians' by their character and philosophical convictions who want nothing to do with Christianity or churches at all!!!!
So, um, what 'Christians' did you have in mind?
Some "Christians" dont even think Im Christian.
Cause Im Roman Catholic. But I was talking in very broad terms... including everyone and anyone who believes in, partially or entirely, absolutely or with questions, in what is stated in the Old and New Testaments. I mean I have questions.. lots of them. Im know that if your any kind of thinking person.. you must have questions too. I believe many can be found in the Bible...as well as other sources. Dont you?
I mean I feel alotta hostility here from non-christians and I cannot determine who/what they are. Are they jews? Dont think so. Muslims? Doubt it. Buddists? Possibily wanna-be buddists (like the guy who did zietgeist). Atheists? Ha! Can we define these non-christians?
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
To the extent that the Roman
To the extent that the Roman Catholic Church extends it's power and it's influence - and to the extent it has *forced* through torture and murder in times past and pushes for civil legislation(up to this day)- it's own doctrines on the peoples, it deserves the hostility.
But that doesn't mean that individuals deserve hostility unless they take up the historical power lust of the popes and Jesuits to make all Christians, by force, subscribe to their particular doctrines and practices.
I'm about as Protestant as you can get, and I hate many of the teachings of Romanism, but I don't hate Catholics - unless they seek to limit my religious freedom by force or law.
You never see God commanding the Jews forced conversion of other nations to Judaism. You never see Jesus calling on Roman authorities to make people listen when some of the multitudes didn't like parts of His message and walk away. You never see Christ pushing for civil or legislative power to force His doctrines on the people.
In contrast, the history of Roman Catholicism is that of a persecuting church, lusting for power in civil society by force through kings and/or through law pertaining to religious things.
And as one glaring example - I keep the 7th day Sabbath - the day we call Saturday - in honour of my God who blessed it, and in following Christ who honoured it by keeping it, teaching on it and healing on it.
Yet the Roman Catholic Popes in times past have said that it is strictly forbidden for me to do so, upon penalty of death. And - they are still pushing today for civil legislation to force all men to keep the 1st day of the week - the day the pagans honoured the Sun - Sun-day.
*The Roman Catholic Church pronounced all Christians keeping the Sabbath as being condemned and cut off from Christ. Council of Laodicea (c.366), Canon 29, -"Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day honouring rather the Lord's day (reference to Sunday) by resting, if possible, as Christians. However if any shall be found Judaizing, let them be ANATHEMA for Christ." (Mansi, II, pgs 569-570, also Hefele Councils, Vol. 2, b. 6) Notice the definition of "anathema" according to the World Book Dictionary, -"A person or thing that is utterly detested or condemned." And, -"A solemn curse by church authorities excommunicating some person from the church." Also, -"The act of denouncing and condemning some person or thing as evil."
Still pushing...
http://www.ucgstp.org/bureau/wnp/wnp0009/sunday.htm
So, no hostility to you as an individual for being Roman Catholic. Only if you agree with your popes and shove your religion down our throats by force of law or other means.
You crossed a line, and show your ignorance, Protestant brother
"Roman Catholic Church... deserves hostility"?
"the Catholic Church has a history of..."
"in times past..."
How long ago exactly are you talking about? A century? Two centuries? 3? 4 hundred yrs ago??? Get over it. And for the record hsitory records plenty of instances where protestants persecuted (and killed) catholics! Even here in America, many of the founding fathers were weary of catholic immigrants (understandably so... because I understand history w/o prejudice I hold no grudges. the sword cuts both ways). But get over it!!. Deal in the now.
I am fully aware of the global conspiracy called the new world order. And I am fully aware of the Church's, and the Pontiff's role in the new world order. And still I believe. You wanna call me brainwashed, a robot... you do so at your own loss. Because no one understands freedom better than a sincere Roman Catholic. The Pope is infallible. He isnt the Pope for no reason. When was the last time Roman Catholic tried to limit your freedom of religion through force or law? Get real.
You wanna debate certain practices civily, we can ... but to debate history is useless. The fact is that teh Catholic French and Spanish befriended the indian natives. But it was teh protestant British that went straight for the genocide. But you can flip that... it was teh catholic dutch, spanish and portugese that ran the slave trade to the british protestant in north america. We can go on and on.
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
""Roman Catholic Church...
""Roman Catholic Church... deserves hostility"?"
Yes, individuals within that church deserve hostility INSOFAR AS they push to make all submit to their brand of religion by law or force. I suppose you didn't read the link I provided in the last post. Rome hasn't changed:
http://www.ucgstp.org/bureau/wnp/wnp0009/sunday.htm
Rome hasn't had the power she had since the French Revolution, but that power is steadily returning.
I'm guessing you would be just fine with people like myself pushing for laws that directly go against your religion?
Perhaps we should push for a law that outlaws veneration of saints,calling Mary the "queen of heaven" and going to church on Sunday?
Perchance you may get hostile at that? You would, and rightly so. But my faith doesn't teach me to force it down other's throats by law or force of law. YOURS DOES.
As for the infallibility of your pope - the popes have been about as far away from Jesus as persons could get in their decrees and beleifs:
http://www.bol.sapphiremoon.info/his/fa_pope.htm
"He isnt the Pope for no reason"
Your right, he isn't. The reason is the same reason Christ gave to Pontious Pilate - "My kindom is NOT of this world"
Your pope and the papacy in general, along with their false doctrines, idol worship, transubstanciation, priestly offices and power of force with or by law and decree - represent a "kingdom of this world".
STOP IT.
STOP IT.
Edit: I guess I can't handle the truth. The truth is that DP is overrun by divisiveness. What is the point of introducing religious argument here? I gave up on DP once because I found that all I was doing was begging people to "stop it." The concept of Liberty is a simple one, one we should all get behind. Bringing up wedge issues that are at best peripheral to our shared goal is an activity better left to the trolls. There are plenty of forums for discussion of religion, abortion, creationism, 9/11 theories, the stock market, and even crackpot energy technologies. This is not one of them.
So here I am again, asking people to stop it. The truth is, they will not. That's what I cannot handle.
How many are aware that
How many are aware that much, if not most, of the old testament bible is plagarized material from the ancient Sumerian Enuma Elish and other Sumerian material?
Things are only impossible until they are not.
-- Jean Luc Picard
Things are only impossible until they are not.
-- Jean Luc Picard
I wouldnt say plagerized.
But more retold. But that gives the OT even more credibility! Unless you believe that what the summerians were talking about was purely fictional. I dont.
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
I am!
I am!
Doc Holladay
Nashville, TN
http://www.myspace.com/docholladaymusic
www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic
Truth is treason in an empire of lies.
More Likely
This refers most famously to the account of the Great Flood.
More likely the various ancient texts are all based on an original oral tradition of an actual event.
Christians and Jews believe that God preserved the accurate account in Genesis and that other versions are corrupted by tradition.
You'll have to do better than just to claim that because there are more than one version of a story that the Christian's version is wrong.
At a minimum the similarities strongly support the underlying story's authenticity.
On that note
Has anyone researched their christian history to find out that the bible is the history of the Cult Of Aton(aka lucifeianism/atonism)? Its sun worship from the 18th dynasty of egypt. It is the church of the great sun disk. During the 18th dynasty their were two solar cults in egypt The cult of aton/aten(phonetically both names are equal) based in heliopolis and the preistarchy that worshiped amen ra for many many years. During the 18th dynasty the worshippers of aten/aton believed because of the presetion of the equinox from taurus to aries that it was their turn to rule and they had several pharoahs which were worshippers of aton/aten. These pharoahs specifically akhenaton son of amenhotep III (secret aton worshipper but publically an amen worshipper) got kicked out of egypt for messing up Egypt and after a revolution of sorts this became the SECOND exodus around 1200 bc. (the first was when abraham and the hyksos kings were kicked out around 2000 bc and the bible backs up BOTH exoduses). They then started their dreams of a New World Order and they concocted the bible as a chronical of the atonists kings of Egypt.
Moses the law giver is AKHENATON
The pharoah that expelled Abraham and his Hyksos kings was Ahmose I
Joseph is Yuya the richest guy in Egypt second to the pharoah Akhenaton
exc exc.
All the dramatis personai of the bible have been discovered to be atonists who cleverly hid their names and use the bible as their front. Christians really need to do some h.w. on the identies of these guys.(issac, joseph, Moses, King David and King Solomon, Abraham exc exc)
The hidden secrets of the freemasons and the illuminati (and other secret soceities) is that even though they use the "holy bible" and everyone knows this. They are atonists to the core. The fact that these guys have wanted to rule the world since they were expelled from Egypt due to their insanity and desecration of Egypt is the secret behind the soceities and concoctions.
Tribe of Judah=the atonists. Jehovah, Yahweh/YHWH= Aton
Many hundreds of books exist on these subjects. Anyone who wants to know more can email me at juan_londono101@hotmail.com
I know this post will cause controversy but hey I want the truth out their even if im just one voice. I am not anti-chhristianity or judiasm(a term that didnt exist before the 17th century ad) but I just want the facts out there in the world)
J. Londoño
Warmed Over Zeitgeist Nonsense
This is just another repeated restatement of the unsupported and thoroughly debunked assertions that make the Zeitgeist video a grouchy anti-Christian diatribe instead of the valuable tool for liberty it could have been.
"...certain as I am that when opinions are free..."
"I have shown in all the foregoing parts of this work that the Bible and Testament are impositions and forgeries; and I leave the evidence I have produced in proof of it to be refuted, if any one can do it; and I leave the ideas that are suggested in the conclusion of the work to rest on the mind of the reader; certain as I am that when opinions are free, either in matters of govemment or religion, truth will finally and powerfully prevail."
---Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
Leland Thomas Faegre
Thomas paine was
the Al Gore of his time. Only difference was that thomas paine later recanted
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
Al Gore?
So, you are saying that the man who brought the philosophy of Liberty and individual rights over collectivism to the people and triggering the Revolution against the Divine God-made ruler King George III is the same as Al Gore? Interesting... Actually, I have no idea what saying someone is "Al Gore" means?? Are you saying Paine made video documentaries about ice? That's pretty silly.
Thomas Paine never recanted - this great man in his later years was essentially unwelcome in the nation he helped create because he wouldn't recant his words.
www.libertyrestorationproject.org
"We are the inheritors of the American Enlightenment, which tells us that Individual Liberty always trumps collectivism in all forms."
Paine's recant is apocryphal
Paine's recant is apocryphal and often cited without evidence or testimony but this extraordinary work was for the ages. Derisional commentary on Benjamin Franklin's protege are common from Christians who can't handle the truth. I spent ten years as a member of the John Birch Society...
Leland Thomas Faegre
Let me ask you something...
Do you have an open mind? Open enough to read scriptures that are in your Bible that you have never read before or been taught by preachers? If not, that is fine, but if so, I can start giving you scriptures to study.
Most people that have actually read the Bible do in fact turn away from it. The level of dedication to Christianity I find directly inverse proportional to the actual amount of time spent reading the whole Bible (not just preacher or Bible study excerpts). The more someone reads, the less they are behind it, and the less they read, the more dedicated that they. Maybe that last part is an effort to compensate for not doing what they think they should be doing.
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"If thinking is a prerequisite for existence, then please double check whether or not you exist before you expect others to respond - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIrn8OchcLg "
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PoL.English.The.Philo...
Go for it..
I havent read the Bible cover to cover...
But I seriously doubt that you will throw anything at me that I havent already looked at and considered. Ive read about the abortion in the Bible, Ive studied what Jesus meant by "...turning brother against brother", even the Zietgiest movie (which I am a big fan of) was wrong on its interpretation of the Bible.
Have I strayed from Christianity? Thats kinda personal but yes. Who the hell hasnt?? Im Catholic... but im notta saint!
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
I don't want to start another religion war on the DP...
Which what I could post likely would do just that.
And I offer sincerely to only provide you with information if interested so instead of posting directly here, contact me via my contact page here and I will send you an e-mail this evening when I get a chance.
And I'll only carry on the discussion via e-mail for as long as you want to and are comfortable with.
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"If thinking is a prerequisite for existence, then please double check whether or not you exist before you expect others to respond - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIrn8OchcLg "
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PoL.English.The.Philo...
What is this a Monday morning joke?
Your saying all we need is a bible and a newspaper and everything else stems from that! You people need to go back to bible camp and stay there. You can declare the truth all day long, but that does not make it so. Have a good summer bible camp and don't forget renew your NY Times subscription.
I come to DP often...
you think I read the NY times? Or even CNN, or Fox? By "newspaper" I meant... the "news of the day", "current events"... ect ect... Of course my main source of news is the internet as im sure yours is.
Today I read in the news how the military wants to deploy soldiers in rockets to anywhere on the planet within 2 hrs. The discussion would be how? Well, they'd have to tri-angulate the point origin with the point in space to the point of destination. Discussion turns into math. You can go further, in discussing what would withstand re-entry (engineering), Where on the globe(geography, geo-politics), the costs (economics) ect ect...
This isnt Bible camp... its reality.
furthermore... a Bible and a newspaper in every school wasnt even my idea... it was Ben Franklin's
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
It seems more cult like
I know you believe this stuff but as soon as I read them trying to connect it to a bible you lost me.
You wanting to put a bible in the hands of anyone other than a child who may believe goes against everything the freedom movement stands for.
Religious freedom is a basic right our Constitution offers. The bible has no business in a school or government office. If you chose to have a bible at your place of work or your children choose to carry a bible to school that is their right, but to impose this on anyone else crosses the line.
You guys sound like cult members and probably why people laugh at you, you sound a little nutty.
Respectfully, your wrong
on several points.
The point of the article was to show that the manipulation of money used to control the people is as old as the hills and has been nearly perfected over time. MY point was to show that the Bible can be a useful tool in learning and understanding just about anything your mortal mind can think of... even basic economic principles.
But you are absoluetly wrong in saying that the Bible has no place in government or in schools. That is the same stance that the globalist, nwo types, whom happen to be at war with the Freedom Movement, take. Do you disagree with the 10 Commandments? Do not kill, do not steal, do not covet, honor your mother and your father? All these principles can be applied to any and all social, economical, political, and military issues that we face today!!
Agree or disagree with it or not, but the Bible is THE most important book ever written... no question. How can you possibly say it has no place in schools or government? The Nazis banned books too you know. That sounds awfully anti-freedom. You need to rethink your position on this.
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
it has no place in school or government
In a free society it has no place. Sir you are wrong. Bias aside, it has no place because it's a selective book that not everyone believes or reads. Of course it seems to be the center of your universe so therefor if its good for you it must be good for everyone; hogwash. You are so brainwashed you don't get it. How did you even find your way here to DP? Separation of church and state.
You are advocating forcing your book on people as if it's everyone's book and you think this is inline with freedom and liberty? What about the millions of people who don't read your book or think it has any value? They don't get a say? Freedom applies to everyone, not just those that share your view. The moment your belief system has to be the dominant one we have a problem.
NWO my arse. The two are so far apart it isn't funny. The indoctrination of being "good Christians" is about as close to NWO as any. I see church and Christians I see pure evil. I see mind control. I see you as a robot forcing your brainwashed agenda on everyone. That isn't freedom that's a cult.
Wow. Really?
If the freedom movement had its way, there would be no Department of education. Basically the education of children will be up to the the parents living within that community. If the parents within that community agree that the Bible should not be taught in their schools then it wouldnt be. But if the people of that community agree that it should be taught it then will be. I bet you would be hard pressed to find many communities in America where the overwhelming majority of the parents agree that the Bible should not be taught in schools. Would you be the type to start a class action suit against schools that teach the Bible in communities other than your own? Would you deny your own children learning from the most widely read book known to man? You see me as pure evil? You see my ancestors, and most likely your own, as pure evil? Do you see jews or buddists and muslims as pure evil? Or do you reserve your bigotry solely for Christians?
Descartes proved God's existence through math. Maybe we shouldnt teach math in school either.
And for the record...the idea that all schools need is a bible and a newspaper wasnt even my idea... it was Ben Franklin's
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
http://www.jbs.org/
Semper Fortis
"Descartes proved God's
"Descartes proved God's existence through math."
You mean he attempted, or thought he proved it, he of course did no such thing:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/descartes.htm
Disembling?
"The Nazis banned books too you know."
Yes, but not the Bible - a little tidbit of information you left out.
Actually, the Nazi movement and the Third Reich itself was very religious. The German Nazis were very Christian and the Bible was an important part of their culture. The soldiers had Christian services before battle just like Americans, they had "God is with us" on their uniforms, they used a paleo-Christian cross as the highest medals of bravery, etc... It is true that Hitler and his inner circle wanted to blend the German Pagan traditions with the current Christianity as they saw the Pagans as the keepers of knowledge in reference to Christ, but that is a whole other argument.
"Agree or disagree with it or not, but the Bible is THE most important book ever written... " - I would agree with this, with the alteration that it is the most 'influential' book ever written. Not a good influence in my opinion, but it has changed the world over and over - no argument there.
www.libertyrestorationproject.org
"We are the inheritors of the American Enlightenment, which tells us that Individual Liberty always trumps collectivism in all forms."