Markets hold breath as $360bn Lehman swaps unwind
All I can say is GOOD LUCK!
Markets hold breath as $360bn Lehman swaps unwind
The $54trillion credit derivatives market faces a delicate test as $360bn worth of contracts on now-defaulted derivatives on Lehman Brothers are due to be settled on Tuesday.
By Louise Armitstead and Peter Koenig
Last Updated: 7:47PM BST 18 Oct 2008
Lehman Brothers' complex network of derivatives will be settled on Tuesday October 22 Due to the opacity of the market, which is one of the most complex, least regulated and least understood in the global financial system, it is still not clear how many contracts have to be settled or which institutions will take the ultimate hits once the billions of dollars worth of contracts have been unravelled. The collapse of Lehman Brothers, is expected to trigger credit default swap (CDS) protection pay-outs of about $400bn but because the contracts were sold many times through different counterparties it is not yet known who will be liable.
One commentator said: “This will be the greatest illustration of the follies of Wall Street and how unnecessarily complicated the wild off-track betting became in the past few years.”
Five years ago Warren Buffett, the iconic American investor, warned that the chaotic profusion of derivatives used by companies and hedge funds to fund financial growth were “financial weapons of mass destruction.’’
Bankers in the City and on Wall Street are bracing for yet another round of turbulence as the contracts are unwound.
The Bank of England and the Federal Reserve in America have said they will keep their special liquidity windows open late on Tuesday night to allow the contracts to settle.
“We’re in unchartered waters here and it may all prove an anti-climax,” said a senior City banker on Friday, “but everyone will be watching the situation and wondering what’s going to happen.”
An earlier auction of Lehman-related derivatives on October 10 prompted early fears that banks and investors could lose $400 billion. In the event, the discounts on the Lehman-related paper that day realised losses of only $6 billion.
At the core of Tuesday’s cash exchange between banks stands a quasi-insurance product, the credit default swaps. Investors buy CDS’s to protect themselves against the possibility of default on securities issues by firms such as Lehman. During the boom years, banks’ insurers and hedge funds created and sold CDS’s to raise what appeared to be risk-free cash in the form of premium payments.
On September 16, Lehman filed for bankruptcy, leaving them obliged to payout on CDS’s written to protect investors against the possibility of a default on Lehman paper.
City bankers say that Lehman also holds a portfolio of CDS’s written to protect against other institutions defaulting and these, too, could get caught up in Tuesday’s action.
“This will arguably be the biggest cash-exchange day and somebody will fail,” one analyst warned last week.





















Here we go
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/70355
Freedom brings People together
Ron Paul was right
Any news about it ?
Freedom brings People together
Ron Paul was right
Nothing yet
It will take the accounting geeks a few days to digest all this information.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
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Today and tomorrow should be rough
It will probably be 2 down days in a row, Tuesday and Wednesday. We'll proabably get close to our bottom for the year, if not cross it.
The reason is that bad news will come out first from the Lehmen unwinding. We'll hear horror stories about destroyed balance sheets and huge write downs as a result of the bankruptcy findings.
By Thursday, most of the information will be digested by the market and we'll find out who's on the hook for what...and that will be a bottoming effect. At least we'll know what's happening.
There should be a bear market rally, erasing the losses from today and tomorrow and probably driving up all next week. I'm really thinking the Dow might get close to 10,000 sometime next week.
Remember, good news is good, bad news is bad, and no news is far far worse than either of them.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
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Shout it today!
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what did you invest in to make that return? Did anyone see where
the hedge fund manager retired and thanked the idiots that helped him along the way. Made $80million on playing the collapse of the housing market. Wished I would have known that play!
IT IS NOT A WASTED VOTE!
I don't care about the market anymore
since I am out of it for the most part. My more important interest is figuring out if I should hold onto rental properties or sell them and build my cash position. I don't have a good idea which way rents and property values are going to go with the coming economic mess.
Anybody got any thoughts. All are welcome.
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Down down
the rollercoaster tomorrow.
Freedom brings People together
Ron Paul was right
So teh market up today and tomorrow is the sucker punch...for
Wednesday....too sad
In Christ,
Dave
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Dave
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This will only help
Finding out who's on the hook for what will be a positive thing for the market as a whole. As a rule, bad news is far better for the market than no news, and no news is what we've had since Lehmen tanked.
The balance sheets should be fully digested and processed by Thursday of this week, so expect some cheering on Wall Street that we finally have some answers.
The market has already reacted as if everyone is losing the most possible from the Lehmen books...so whatever they find out, it's bound to be good news.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
Once the price is set then we will know what they are worth
Once the price is set then we will know what they are worth. If they are worth just pennies on the dollar, then it could turn out to be 1000s of bank failures because of the write-downs they will have to take.
"Lead, follow, or get out of the way."
-- Thomas Paine
A Republic, If You Can Keep It
I don't think so
I think the big boys in the US have already prepared for the worst on their balance sheets....thanks to a direct line of credit with the fed. WaMu was only dropped because of billions of dollars in withdrawals over a short period of time.
The banks that are really at risk of toppling are the small and medium sized banks, and very few of them are heavily involved in derivatives trading.
Perhaps a few big international (non-US) banks will take some hurtin...but they'll be bailed out by their respective People's Republics.
You aren't going to see bank failures in masse until the commercial real estate market begins it's serious tanking.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
optimism strikes a good balance
You certainly keep the banter going jzneff. I would not want you as my money manager though!
Maybe not..but
If you had taken my advice around Memorial Day, you'd be sitting on 1000% profit margin right now.
Hate to see this forum go one sided. The bottom for the Dow this year should occur this week, if it hasn't already.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
now I know you don't know anything about business
Gross margin expressed as a percentage can't exceed 100%. I could have given you $10 and you could have turned it into $10,000 it would still be at 99.0% gross margin. You should consider enrolling in adult education and leave business to those who understand it.
It seems neither one of us understand margin
In your example, margin is undefineable since you're not talking about the profit from a sale, but an investment.
Honestly, this is semantics.
You know what I was saying.
What do you think about the war on drugs?
How about Operation Wall Street?
Shout it today!
http://www.youshouts.com/index.php
Have a link?
thanks
Well, we already know what the insurance execs will do
if they get bailed out.
http://webcast.aot.com.au/holidaysforsale/images/category/he...
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"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."
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send there emplyess on a
send there emplyess on a greek mediteranian cruise?!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
(check
the link.)
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"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."
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bump
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"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul
Yep, tomorrow should be
Yep, tomorrow should be another interesting day in the markets.
http://www.1776solution.blogspot.com
http://militantjeffersonian.com
"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes
I just wonder what insurance
I just wonder what insurance company or comapnies are going to take it on the chin... then what systemic problem will that produce!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐