Why do some RP supporters now support Nader?
Could someone explain to me why some people who supported Ron Paul, now support Ralph Nader? I agree that Nader is a fighter and he's "fighting the good fight" but I don't see how his policies align with Ron Paul very much at all. Yes he's on board with investigating the Federal Reserve, but he just seems to be another one of those good guys who is basically saying "government can be good. You just have to vote for me, and I'll make sure the government does good things, not bad things". Is it really even possible for Ralph Nader to create/fix all these regulations and problems? He has two arms and two legs, and 24 hours in a day. He obviously can't fix everything single-handedly, so he would have to also make sure that all the thousands of people in the federal government were just as trustworthy and competent as he is. Though, this dilemma can exist with any president, even Ron Paul. But Ron Paul wants to eliminate a lot of government, which eliminates the problem of finding trustworthy government workers and legislators.
I just don't see Nader's philosophy as being practical. I'm tired of hearing politicians say that the government can be good, as long as they are voted into office. I firmly believe that less government will allow things to correct themselves in the long run, but we have to correct our monetary system first.
I think there's also something to be said for self-reliance. Sure, government can be good and help people. But think 100 years down the road. Will people be more self-reliant or less self-reliant because of it?
Nader likes regulations and believes in the possibility of government being good. I just don't see it that way... What are your thoughts?
i will vote for chuck baldwin..but
i believe ralph nader is an honest person and sincere what he believes and tells you exactly what he thinks.... that makes him also an unique person in politics... i believe he is a good person.... i just don't agree with his positions.. but i respect him as a good politician because of his honesty
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master... George Washington
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master... George Washington
IF McCain wins...
(and I know, that's a big IF, but don't forget the Bradley Effect!)
...the margin will be much smaller than Nader's vote totals. Can you imagine the poopstorm that would erupt when Nader is (falsely) blamed for the defeat of The One?
I still don't know who I'm voting for, but I'm leaning Nader, mostly through process of elimination.
All third parties should be working in coordination to undermine the democrats and republicans. I wish Ron Paul had asked all of the third party candidates to encourage their parties to coordinate on future ballot access, ie, if a Libertarian volunteer is getting signatures, also carry forms for Greens and Constitutionals, etc. Maybe we could unite to destroy presidential ballot access by getting dozens of names qualified across the country. Bwaaa ha ha ha!
hear me now and believe me later
McCain WILL be our next pres. The same machines that got Bush elected will carry on the same policies with McCain. The fake polls are close enough to excuse the upset with the Bradley effect, the Hillary factor & a Nader spoil.
Live Free or Diebold
and you thought the Bob Barrs were trolls
Yeah stub gate about did me in on Bob Barr. Then not debating Baldwin and Nader........
I think Nader won a lot of respect when he debated Chuck Baldwin. Baldwin is not on the Indiana ballot and if I have to write someone in it is going to be Ron Paul. I will vote for all other Libertarians at all levels of government and against most incumbents when in doubt.
Nader loves suing the feds
and that's why I love Nader most.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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Did anyone see today that Zinn
the big Obama supporter has changed his ways and is now supporting Nader?
Howard Zinn now says he's voting for Nader.
The famous historian lives in Massachusetts, where Obama is ahead by 20 points.
Zinn created a stir earlier when he said he was voting for Obama.
He legitimately took some heat for supporting the corporate Obama.
But late last night, Zinn admitted in an e-mail to our campaign that he made a mistake and now says he will vote for Nader.
And Zinn urges all people of conscience to vote for the true progressive in slam dunk states.
Of which there are now many.
(Zinn says that in non slam dunk states, he urges people to vote for Obama. We obviously disagree with that bit of advice.)
Or as Ralph Nader put it today:
"A vote for Nader/Gonzalez on November, rather than being wasted by piling onto an Obama landslide or McCain implosion, will produce a stronger hammer and watchdog for what millions of Americans want -- including public Medicare for all with private delivery and a living wage for the one in three workers who don't make one."
"Unless millions of voters of conscience choose the progressive hammer and watchdog of Nader/Gonzalez, millions of votes will be tactically wasted and serve only to increase the mandateless landslide of Barack Obama."
So, if you are ambivalent about this election, fear not.
Colchester, New London County, Connecticut
Not this RP supporter
Not this RP supporter it is Chuck Baldwin all the way!
If Ron chose Chuck you should too.
im considering throwing a
im considering throwing a vote for nader, and it really has nothing to do with me supporting nader. he just happens to be the best 'NOTA" vote on the ballot. honestly the ballot this year might be the worst in recent history if you can imagine that. i think nader has one of the best shots to gain a small piece of the voting pie nation wide to make a voice. so i agree with zero of his policies (or close to it at least) but i appreciate his drive at the very least. so no im not voting nader as a president. im voting against barrack mcbama.
i still havent ruled out writing in RP honestly.
when you see that Jesse Ventura
attended Nader's rallies spoke on his behalf you can see that to prepare the ground for strong Unity Against Fascism movement begins with a vote for Nader.
10/20 million votes MSM can't ignore.
peace
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
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"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul
Im one who happens to agree with everything ive ever heard Ron
Paul say. I honestly havent heard him say anything that I disagree with philosophically- and everything else he says stands on its own when measured against the Constitution. Occasionally I hear people say "well...I agree with most of what Ron Paul says..." and it tends to put me on the defense lol- "What dont you agree with?!". I can accept that some people have a different world view- that they were attracted to the revolution enough to hang out till the Convention and then choose Barr or Nader etc is cool with me. Though I disagree with the Nader people- they are among the most educated supporters anywhere- Im glad to be working against the 2 party system with them. We can politely agree to disagree and focus on the common denominators.
Live Free or Diebold
good post
Ron is not perfect(no one is)
Ron himself stated that he used to support the death penalty now he does not.
Still Ron Paul is pure spirit and Ralph has the very same qualities.
Anyone who for 35/45 years fights like they do deserves presidency.
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
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"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul
Umm...
You might want to visit the quickly growing Lyndon Larouche thread if you believe that sheer length of time at tilting toward windmills grants the right to presidency.
~jaq
~jaq
I stay away from that guy
I like a lot of what he says but my gut feeling and some things he says/said make/made me cringe...
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
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"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul
Precisely my point.
~jaq
~jaq
but at the same time
He was persecuted.
Lyndon stood tall...he made millions awake to the NWO...
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
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"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul
It is confusing. Here's what Ron Paul said in front of Nader:
September 10, 2008:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/69482
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
the whole part sounds different
Ron used words probably and not planning to but said quote "I want him to get as many votes as possible(Nader)"
Why Ron DID NOT choose Chuck to be with him on CNN? or any MSM for that matter?
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
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"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul
I don't think the mainstream media wants Baldwin on.
The point is, overall, Ron Paul and Ralph Nader support different philosphies.
Ron Paul wants Nader to take as many votes from Obama as possible, and he wants to work with Nader in supporting third parties in general, but he does not support Nader's campaign.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
That's sort of it
but not quite. The point that Ron was making was not about this election per se, but about the idea that we are faced with a false choice at the voting booth. If a vampire asks you, "Bitten or impaling?" It's not a big difference between that, and saying, "Biden or Palin?" That's not a choice, and that was Ron's point.
~jaq
~jaq
That's what Ron Paul actually said in that same interview.
He said he wants to get Nader as many votes as possible, because that will take away votes from Obama, but he doesn't necessarily support Nader's campaign.
But, yes, overall the idea is to support more fair debates and elections and join third parties together to that end.
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
Ron Paul's Convention Speech
terrific point
to break up the duopoly you CANT make it all alone.
Unity is the ONLY way to win this fight.
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
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"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul
Unity
You are so right. Any 3rd party vote is exceptional, but if we can all get behind one candidate and make a number, it will become news.
Colchester, New London County, Connecticut
The message was stronger
when Ron chose to hype someone he explicitly didn't support.
The talking head interviewing them sure was boggled!
~jaq
~jaq
probably mostly a protest
probably mostly a protest vote although i seriously hope they don't support socialism ... oh god!
misnomer
"protest" vote is not a protest vote. A protest vote is "voting for the lesser of two evils." That is a protest vote. What most people call a protest vote is really a vote of conscience. It is a vote for principle. People who cannot vote their own conscience because it is not the popular thing to do will put down conscientious voters as "protesters." It is a negative propaganda comment to keep us from voting our heart. Not saying YOU are the cause of this semantics game, just wishing we would not allow our vote to be labeled a "protest" vote.
Depends
If I voted for anyone on the ballot, it would be a protest vote. I can't honestly support Barr, McKinney, Nader, or Baldwin.
Actually, I will be voting on local issues, but skipping the presidential ballot. That, to me, is the ULTIMATE protest vote. "I came, I saw, I threw it away."
~jaq
~jaq
As Lew Rockwell said on LRC today
It's like deciding between Grima Wormtongue and Saruman to carry the One Ring to Mt Doom. It's not a protest vote, it is a conscious vote.
Colchester, New London County, Connecticut
Because
1. He's not a scary NWO freak.
2. He's not overtly religious, borderline xenophobic, or other socially conservative position that makes Chuck less savory to some folk.
3. Bob Barr is a RISO (Republican In Spirit Only).
4. Cynthia McKinney is, well, Cynthia McKinney -- borderline nuts and bombastic beyond all reason.
5. A write-in vote for RP is probably a vote for McCain, using Diebold math.
6. Some people feel they gotta vote for someone.
I seriously considered voting for Nader. Trouble is, he's not on my ballot, and plus, he's just a tad too paternalistic/statist for me. But at least I honestly believe he means well.
~jaq
~jaq
Wow.
My thoughts exactly. I took an online vote test, and I was 81% Nader and 81% McKinney, but I will be voting Nader because he still seems closer to my ideals as well as having name recognition. He is the only 3rd party candidate who will be mentioned 11/4 in the MSM. Make it mean something.
I was for a short time Barr supporter, but he has no plan to leave the Middle East, and besides, he is so pompous he makes me wince.
I have no feeling towards Baldwin at all. I am not religulous, I carry my own spirituality, and it has no bearing on my patriotism. I could not in good conscience vote for someone who, running for office, sells religion. It's all about the Constitution. Not the Bible.
Colchester, New London County, Connecticut
love your post
I could not say it better.
cheers!
German beer to your health!
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57925480@N00/2660779139/sizes/l/
Website:
http://www.libertypoet.com/
Twitter:
http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
"How can we justify to the unemployed and underemployed in the United States the incredible cost of maintaining a global empire?" - Dr. Ron Paul