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'Ignorant Christians in This Country are to Blame More Than Anyone.'
Submitted by Kevin Tuma on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 11:40
Good column by Doug Newman, Christian libertarian, at the Fount of Truth: » |
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I think it is more the Catholic Church that will align with the
NWO. The Catholic church is the one who changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, God commanded us to rest on the seventh day of the week, not the sixth. It is mentioned in the book of Daniel. "They will change time and Law." The Catholic church still performs sacrifices on a weekly basis, by offering up the flesh and blood of Christ every Sunday. Sacrifices were suppossed to be done when Christ, the ultimate sacrifice died for us. Catholics believe in the Virgin Mary being a Saint. They pray the Rosary to her consistently. They also have confession, in which they confess their sins to a priest to be forgiven. Jesus said the only way to the Father was through the Son. I would strongly suggest we look at the Catholic church as the one who will decieve us, they are deceiving millions already. I think the Catholic church is the one to watch out for as far as aligning with the NWO, the Pope already said we need to align with the UN a few months back. Some Christians yes, will be a problem, but I think it is the Catholic church who will be the one to look at.
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!
I am a Christian and
i approve this message..Thank You Kevin
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master... George Washington
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master... George Washington
I've heard some of you talk
I've heard some of you talk of the 'remnant' referring to those of us fighting for freedom in this revolution. We are frustrated much of the time by those still sleeping/ignorant to the things we've been awakened to.
Consider that the same is true in the 'christian' world. There is the visible 'church' and the invisible, the latter being the 'remnant'. The remnant = true believers. Those in the 'visible' church, Churchianity I prefer to call it, are among the deceived. It takes an act of God to remove the scales from their eyes. He knows our hearts and knows what will awaken each one. He also knows there are some who will never see.
It is the Believer's duty to spread the message. Conversion is God's job.
Trust in God, but tie your camel tight.
"Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another,they both march in the same direction." - Paul Proctor
misguided Christian leaders are the problem
"Christian" pastors have been and are currently being used by the Globalists to promote there agendas. Hitler did this, here is a link where Chuck exposes and warns other pastors of this:
http://www.chuckbaldwinli...
(start at about 40 min in)
Christianity can be the Globalists worst nightmare or best friend. It will be there worst nightmare in the sense that they do not want us to be loyal to anything but them. True Christians will put their loyalty to Christ/Jesus/God before their government leaders. However the Globalists strategy is to buy out the pastors who will then deceive their congregations to blindly following the NWO, this is where the danger lies! and Chuck Baldwin sees through and will expose their tricks!
I would not say ignorant Christians
I would say ignorant people who think they are Christians, but in fact are not followers of Christ in any way shape or form. A true Christian would not shove their principles on anyone. A true Christian is a follower of Christ, not someone who is forced into following Him. With all that is going on right now, it is getting more obvious to me by the day that the true Christians may have it right, looks like this world is about to go to hell in a handbasket.
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!
could you entertain a thought for a moment?
What if instead of the Christians "have ti right" what if the Christians are about to fulfill their part of the NWO plan as conceived at the Council of Nycea?
I mentioned it this AM, I will bring it up once more. How is it that you all can believe the Banking Cartel /NWO infiltrated every major government, runs the education systems, they healthcare systems, in corporations... but they left the churches alone, the Bible is holy and unchangeable...
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
check this out
a response to a pro-Baldwin article from a Christian republican:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/71191#comment-771475
Help me answer this if you are able!
Thanks
I'm not a christian, but ...
ignorant collectivists of any belief system who do not understand the nature of their own individuality are to blame for what ails the nation.
I'm going to go with IGNORANCE
is to blame...
Just so happens most people in the country are Christian.
So Yes, Ignorant Christians are to blame.
They are trying to make the state enforce their religion on society
and it has backfired and is destroying their religion and freedoms.
IT is Karma baby..
One Voice, One Vision, One Love ~ Liberty.
Good Thoughts, Good Words , Good Deeds.
That is the Ron Paul rEVOLution Creed.
One Louv. ;-)..
Wrong I have not tried to
Wrong I have not tried to enforce my Christian beleifs on anyone.. The choice to be a Christian comes from your heart.. not what you are taught or told to do! Ron Paul is a Christian. He is a true Christian.. many call themselves Christiansd and have no idea how to become a true Christian.. just because you go to church every sunday or whatever makes you no more of a Christian then a rat a fish!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
MANY OF YOU ARE RIGHT
Statistically speaking this argument seems [SEEMS] solid.
97% of Americans claim to be religious and 78% of that number claims to be Christian and 51.3% of Americans are Protestants, 23.9% are Catholics, 1.7% are Mormons, and the rest "others."
However, the concepts of Liberty were developed by Christian men (the percentage of Mormons, Jews, or "others") was zero among the founding fathers.
Jesus teachings were based on Individual Salvation or Individual Spiritualism -- Politically Christ was an Individual-Anarchist (demonstratively) and even his collective congregation was non-conformist and 100% voluntary / non-violent (non-coersion).
If the bulk of the populace were in even a tiny way connected to Jesus' message the country would never have had slavery nor the gov't situation we have now -- the fierceness of "rugged individualism" would not be imaginable.
So -- I'm going to argue that the bulk of Christians are not really (by definition) "Chrisitans" -- which means "little Christ."
Modern Christians are therefore "atheists" or at best their first cousins (Agnostic) who gather socially at a building and all read from the same book, yet posses not the "heart" of Christ.
Conclusion -- Atheists/Agnostics are ruining the U.S and Christians are non-existent or in less than 2%!!!
Octobox
Wisdom is the anticipation of consequences! Tara Mata
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it." Thomas Paine
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
The people of America are not to blame.
We need to get some perspective and stop blaming each other and religions for the present crisis. In fact the people of America are not to blame.
The present situation has been created by International Bankers who want World control. Taking down America is an important step in the agenda.
Now is the time to stand together for freedom as a nation and as a global community, because this crisis is global. What the Money Masters hope to achieve through this crisis is World Government and one Global Monetary currency.
I disagree. If we had a
I disagree. If we had a vigilant, intelligent and/or hard-working population, like the Founders did, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today.
The people are largely to blame, despite the fact that they are being manipulated.
I can't picture David Rockefeller and Barack Obama manipulating Thomas Jefferson or Patrick Henry.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Kevin Tuma -- I'm only posting under you not admonishing you
We had a lot of hard working slaves and Irish -- Back then we were redistributing Indian Wealth to a few priveledged whites (the concept of whiteness was just being invented). It meant "those whites" who owned land -- it meant only white men. Non-whites was all women and men who did not fit in the above definition.
Even in South America during this time a mulatto could purchase a certification of "whiteness" -- while other people we'd now called white were not considered "white."
We've been bass akwards since the beginning.
Jefferson owned slaves for Pete Sake. Yes he could be manipulated and he was -- he owned slaves!! Adams didn't, but he was manipulated as well.
We have to stop looking for a period of time when "perfection" or "liberty" reigned because it never did.
Liberty is a present tense and futuer tence word -- it does not exist in the past. Liberty Evolves -- One must adapt and change with it. Any time where there is coersion and protectionism is a time when there is no adaption and thus no "true" Liberty.
Liberty can only be found in Anarchy and Self-Rule. So, tell me when those two things ever existed in America or anywhere in the world.
Octobox
Wisdom is the anticipation of consequences! Tara Mata
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it." Thomas Paine
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
jefferson and adams fought
jefferson and adams fought to exist as free men. and they weren't blind to the hypocrisy that existed in their movement -fighting for their right as free men to dictate their own destiny, while women and non-whites weren't part of that equation.
they recognized it . they were men ahead of their time. they did their very best.
as Ron Paul would say something to the effect that if people are involved, then it's fallible.
anyway, no one is looking for a time of perfection or liberty. no one that I would consider credible on this board.
"liberty is a present tense and future tense word"
nonsense.
people learn from their mistakes, and all mistake are a part of the past. so therefore we have to sometimes discuss the past.
"liberty can only be found in anarchy and self-rule"
nice decree. but it's found lacking...not even a follow up to try and persuade people that your statement is in fact...true.
nice appeal from authority, but the validity of the claim does not follow from the source...
I'm not trying to beat you up here, you made excellent, if not isolated, points about non-whites and women.
trying to tie it to other things and to Kevin's quick quip....well, I wasn't sold on the whole. But I appreciate parts.
dfwrider -- Thanks
I was not building a structured debate - I assume people can connect dots -- if not they can ask me; don't hold me to Hoyle!
Do a search on DailyPaul and you will find more "past" seeking examples of "liberty" than you will find "present tense" or "future tense" arguments. Too much history not enough pragmatic action in the NOW.
The "ignorance" in this nearly 1-yr approach to proving the validity of the "liberty-based" leadership of the founding fathers or the "purity" of the Constitution is that back then the wealth of the Indians was being stole(redistributing it), we had a few million slaves (chattle slavery meant: rape, sodomy, murder, sinilicide, laws against education, and selling off of children), and women could own no property or vote.
Most Americans (outside of Misesean Libertarians and Ron Paulites) see this as an incredibly negative period of time that directly lead to where we are now. No evil force crept in -- it was there from the beginning. Every argument for the "liberty of men" was meant only for a few land owning white men (as I said before not all white men were "white"). The Founding Father's "theory of liberty" and not the Founding Father's "liberty for all." It was a philosophical setting up exercise, "what could be if we were all free" was reduced to "freedom for the few," and it really really sucked!!!
The argument for "Liberty" and the argument for Misesean Minarchism/Libertarianism should be in the present-tense. Simple arguments
DPers get really ignorant when they start selling the idea that Lincoln was "evil" and Robert E. Lee was a "beautiful soul." When you are a slave - and for whatever reason a man says from today forward people can't rape your daughters, sodomize your sons, sell off your wife and children -- You Love that Man. The Man that fights against this (regardless the logic and Fights to keep Slavery Alive) - if you are the slave, you hate this man.
Nostalgia is not going to win the hearts of modern people who hated highschool and history.
Where are peoples minds: Video Games, Sex, Television, Internet Porn and Religion, Work, and Food -- maybe some hobbies (maybe). You want to take "modern man" and teach him "deep" Constitutional and Monetary Analysis.
All modern mans problems exist today not 200 - 400 years ago!! That was the time of slavery and to find "liberty" amidst slavery should be the least amount of debate time -- the amount of history that needs to be taught is lost on modern man. The people who know it is the "choir" stop preaching to the choir!!
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
all good points. i'm
all good points. i'm careful to not idolize people from the past. i try to learn from their mistakes and revelations ....if such things can be gleamed.
anyway, there are many failings in our movement. mainly because we're human.
no doubt one can read these forums and critique pretty hard....i've been a real jerk, and have not really held back....and people have responded in kind.
that said, there's not another forum on the net that the people frustrate me so much, yet at the same time, inspire me, educate me, and ultimately have as-a-group my high regards
i think your desire for more pragmatism and less history is a sign that you personally are well informed and are ready for more action less words....but you have to remember that many of us are new. And it takes time to get educated.
Which goes to my pet peeve....people are in a hurry, many want to take shortcuts.
So now we have your pet peeve and mine. ;-)
thanks for the response, it was quite good. and reminded me of a few things to keep in mind.....
Manipulation is the name of the game
and it has been going on since the Federal Reserve came into being.
You mention
"If we had a vigilant, intelligent and/or hard-working population"
Government has actually aspired to keep the populace ignorant and uninformed via the media and advertising. If you have a TV and watch it without thinking, you are being brain washed.
Our populace is brain washed on a daily basis and milked for profit by all the big money corporations including the Federal Reserve and the Pharmaceutical-Medical Industry, to name only a few..
The American people have been made slaves to those who use the masses for power and profit.
I agree, we study the bible
I agree, we study the bible and are decieved. The bible is clear "be not decieved". The churches were deceived with the 501c3, they became state churches and the bible states "chose who you serve" "no man can serve 2 masters"
so the churches sold thier souls to the devil, now we have marriage licenses, pastors have licenses, all of this is to control and keep the church quiet. I appluad churches who are standing up to this, they will face the dragon (the irs) for standing up.
Heres a couple links, send them to pastors many pastor dont know they are not walking in faith. Many more dont want to because it will challenge them to make a stand. I also sent this to my church friends.
http://hushmoney.org/501c3-facts.htm
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4096944125079342774
Christianity in America
is where the globalist movement began. They started out in the US by infiltrating the churches and teaching the ministers to preach in a way that would steer the congregations towards their ends. The National Council of Churches is their organization. Of course, the end intention is one world religion. Before a person gets involved with a church, he would do himself a service to ask if they are a member of the National Council of Churches. People can call themselves whatever serves their purpose. By their fruits, you shall know them. Obama's Poverty Bill and his stance on abortion and the way he speaks of the Bible, tell me he is no Christian no matter what Reverend Wright says. We all know now that Bush is no Christian. If there is one thing these people are very good at, it is lying. We should have known Bush II if we had paid closer attention to Bush I. I actually thought Bush II was at odds with Bush I, but I should have considered deeper.
We all need to take responsibility for the mess we are in.
Research it and talk to your church:
http://www.ncccusa.org/about/about_ncc.htm
By the way, there is no excuse for global poverty. With the money the elites have, any one of them could wipe out global poverty. It is the way it is because it is the way the want it. Reducing the global population is their plan, along with a lot of other wonderful stuff.
When I say, "Where globalism began"
I mean, "Where globalism began in the United States." It was their first step here.
You are right...
Also, Christianity had to be destroyed and to accomplish this, it had to be destroyed from WITHIN!
The once-Catholic Church is now pretty near Marxist if it's not already! "By its fruits..."
Answer for Catholics....find Traditional Catholic Churches that do not go along with the changes of Vatican II - the turning point for their destruction.
"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom." Patrick Henry
Classical socialism is
Classical socialism is explicitly globalist as well, though. It only took on a nationalistic slant once its leaders realized that the nation state was where military strength was concentrated, not in some transnational proletariat.
And also, it is quite possible to be Christian, and believe abortion to be wrong, yet still realize that giving the federal government enough funding and power to do anything about it, is infinitely more wrong.
This article is for idiots
How gullible atheists are, to be sure. Here is a perfect, though by no means isolated example of idiotic "reasoning":
"In 1933, millions of gullible Germans welcomed a young, energetic charismatic Fuhrer as their national savior. Some of the most enthusiastic support came from Christians."
One must be completely void of rational thought if one doesn't recognize that, in 1933, outside of Jews, Germany was nearly 100% Christian! So, duh, Hitlers' support came from Christians. So did almost ALL of Hitler's opposition!
so as a Christian, answer
so as a Christian, answer your own conundrum that you've painted...
why is that Christians are unable to deal with Evil in their midst?
In fact they rally behind it?
The evil in this country is coming my friend. And from one Christian to another..."The Christians" are putting it on their shoulders and promoting it.
If we're to expect Christians to stomp this evil out, most of them will have to come from outside this country.
Your very own layout of the facts shows no other way...
That makes it redundant, not
That makes it redundant, not idiocy.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Kevin, the truth is hard to
Kevin, the truth is hard to swallow. They won't accept it.
No,it isn't redundant, it's false, therefore it is
for idiots who can't see through a syllogism.
I'm going to guess you
I'm going to guess you didn't even read it all the way through.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Excellent point, Pearl
Thank you...