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Conspiracy vs Pure Austrian view of Financial Crisis

I have been having trouble reconciling two competing but seemingly valid viewpoints. I am sure there is a happy synthesis, but it is hard to discover alone.

#1-Austrian Economics

The fed lowered interest rates, government manipulation drove new money into housing and the rest is history. I believe this caused the crisis.

#2-Conspiracy theory

We more or less know that banks and the establishment have wanted a true global fiat currency and more importantly a global central bank. All of this is happening and would ONLY be happening at this speed given some sort of crisis. Given the textbook globalist nature of these interventions, its hard to deny any manipulative hand regarding the crisis. "They" have too much to gain by this crisis to not have a hand in it, and recent allegations as to JP Morgan's purposeful collapsing of some institutions gives credence to this.

Here is my line of reasoning.

We know that the 1% interest rates caused the cycle.

We also know that the powers that be need a collapse to carry out their vision.

However, I have no reason to believe that the powers that be believe that lowering interest rates to 1% causes business cycles. I know that about 99% of economists would likely not even admit to the possibility of lower interest rates accomplishing this problem prior to the current crisis. Even now, they ignore and downplay its significance. This leads me to believe that the powers that be wouldnt think to use interest rates to carry out their goals(at least not lowering them, maybe raising them). However, the perfection of this crash makes you wonder. Also, Alan Greenspan likely DID give at least some credence to the Austrian Business Cycle theory, and he was the establishment hack overseeing the interest rate drop. Also, Keynes was a total NWO establishment crony and he is largely responsible for the death of Austrian Cycle Theory in mainstream economics. Could it really be possible that the NWO could create a theory that fooled "all of the people all of the time"? I think fabricating popular economic theories is just about impossible to do. If it WAS done, then maybe the powers that be are all Austrians?!??!

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Google "Gold and Economic Freedom"

They know what's going on.

The business cycle theory is not difficult to understand. Maybe all of the intricate details require uncommon intellect to fully grasp, but the overall workings are pretty much common sense. If we can understand it, the bankers understand it better than most of us. It's their business after all.

Whether the crisis was engineered or the onset was just ignored in an ill-advised attempt to keep the economy "healthy" is a valid question. If you think that Alan Greenspan does not understand how low interest rates can lead to a depression, google the article mentioned above. It's an excellent article that he wrote in the '60s and a fairly short read that Ron Paul refers to ocassionally.
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Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms - should be a convenience store, not a government agency!

Agreed

This is why they over complicate problems in the MSM by overloading the viewer with too much terminology and dialogue. It's really just one little simple equation. Of course, a majority of americans wouldn't even understand that thanks to the state of our education and culture.

"There can be only one permanent revolution - a moral one: The regeneration of the inner man."
—Tolstoy

"The body is but a vessel for the soul,
A puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny.
And lo, the body is not eternal,
For it must feed on the flesh of others,
Lest it return to the dust whence it came.
Therefore the soul deceives and despises."

Good Point

No doubt the bankers hide their system in plain view by making it all seem too complicated for a mere mortal to understand. Because of that, most people never bother to try. It's a simple yet ingenious psychological game that the elites understand very well.
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Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms - should be a convenience store, not a government agency!

Food for Thought

The Fed Caused the Great Depression

Milton Friedman proved it and Bernanke confirmed it.

Do you believe they are doing the same thing once again?

BTW, I do not believe in Conspiracy Theories only Conspiracy Facts. ;)

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http://www.federalreserve.gov/BOARDDOCS/SPEECHES/2002/ 20021108/default.htm

Remarks by Governor Ben S. Bernanke
At the Conference to Honor Milton Friedman, University of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois
November 8, 2002

On Milton Friedman’s Ninetieth Birthday

“Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You’re right, we did it. We’re very sorry. But thanks to you, we won’t do it again.”

They have this

planned to the last detail. Just my two cents, don't care what people call me as long as they call me to supper. LOL

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

Why not seek a potential motivation?

I don't like this deal because NOTHING in their world is too complicated to understand...least of all economics. The man who requires complexity is the man who hides from simplicity and I suggest...truth.

To the point.

October crash had nothing to do with anything Austrian or otherwise.

There is no GD conspiracy. It is the publicly stated goal of the CFR, the Bilderbergers, the Trilateral Commission and the rest of the alphabet soup of NWO morons that they want one government. This is not UFO's this is powerful people who have all the money wanting something. Cheerist they discussed it in the fourth republican debate with Dr. Paul on national TV. The Texas legislature BLOCKED the NAU land taking process last year.

This is not a conspiracy...it is real and they think it is the best for humanity which is fine EXCEPT THEY FORGOT TO ASK HUMANITY if it was OK with them.

October crash was engineered and it doens't take that much research to confirm it.

Merrill
Countrywide
Bear Stearns
WaMu
Wachovia
Lehman Brothers
National City
US Trust
AIG
Bradford and Bingley (Who the hell are they?)
Sovereign

All went down because of some lousy mortgages.

What!?

They went illiquid and had to be bailed because of some lousy mortgages?

You have to be kidding me.

We are supposed to accept that 25% of Wall Street went bankrupt over the course of 120 days because of some bad mortgages?

Talk about "scale" issues huh?

A PERCENTAGE OF ONE SEGMENT OF THE US MORTGAGE MARKET HAD PROBLEMS.

A percentage of a percentage of a market absolutely vaporized, Bear, Merrill and Lehman. Do you have any concept of how large these banks are?

So I am supposed to accept the media "line" that 12% of the subprime mortgages which represent 9% of the overall mortgage market in the United States is going to wipe out three of the ten largest banking houses in 90 days? That is a fraction of a fraction. Merrill had some mortgage backed "paper" like the rest of them...

What?!

Their entire liquidity profile got vaporized by some lousy mortgage paper?

That entire list of gigantic institutions lost their effing minds all at once and destroyed themselves BUYING investment instruments that were backed with mortgages held by people who couldn't pay them back?

Is their anything to invest in this world besides crappy mortgages? Do you think Bear Stearns got up one morning a year ago and said "F all those stupid municipal bonds! We want bonds backed by the scariest possible IOU's on the market today! Screw balancing our portfolios! F the last 70 years of prudence! Let's just stop buying anything unless it is backed by a weak borrower! Yay! Load up! Single mother with zero down! Perfect! 3 to one salary to payment ratios! Buy them all and then package them and leverage them again!...Pass the Tequila! $54,000 a year salary? $395,000 mortgage? Two kids? Single parent? Lousy credit? Nothing down? LEHMAN BROTHERS WANTS YOU! But not only do they want you...they want all of you and they want all of you NOW!

The entire list of companies were a couple of mortgage bonds away from being sold to BOA, a Japanese bank, a Spanish bank, an English bank, Buffett and the fed. As of Jan 1st 2008 1/4 of the entire US banking system was a few ticks away from being sold for a nickel on the dollar to effing ANYONE who would step up?

I don't buy what the media says. I don't buy that George Bush needs to meet with the president of effing France to discuss some lousy mortgages and the Dow coughing up a fur ball. France?

You have got to be kidding me.

Unify

ha

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"Better to be flexible like bamboo than rigid like oak, for when the storm comes bamboo will bend and survive, where as oak will crack and die."

"The world is a dynamic mess of jiggling things, if you look at it right." - Richard Feynman

Malinvestment

Malinvestment is always based on some deceit. It is usually the most basic deceit of created money.

The malinvestment bubble always pops suddenly and dramatically. People feel they have been deceived often not knowing how or by whom.

There is often a chain of deceits and widespread participation. The inflated assets get sold to the greater fool.

What we are seeing is classic and has been described by Austrian economists.

The Keynesians deny the existance of malinvestment as such, but they are smart enough to want to sell to the greater fool before the crash.

This malinvestment was going to be revealed one way or another.

Yes, there are probably some who find they will get some advantage by nudging the malinvestment out into the open after they have cashed the check given to them by the greater fool.

Meanwhile, new money creation proceeds at an accelerating pace. You can bet on massive new malinvestment which in turn will be revealed in a future crash.

At some point the crash will be the US Dollar and other fiat monies everywhere. What an irony it will be to watch a generation that thought debt and other problems were being put off for future generations to handle. But it all lands in one Presidential term (2009-2012). The long term all arrives now.

ac

liberty yields harmony; tyrany yields chaos

liberty yields harmony; tyrany yields chaos

Well done

"There can be only one permanent revolution - a moral one: The regeneration of the inner man."
—Tolstoy

"The body is but a vessel for the soul,
A puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny.
And lo, the body is not eternal,
For it must feed on the flesh of others,
Lest it return to the dust whence it came.
Therefore the soul deceives and despises."

Excellent

Excellent

Evil or Stupid?

Great debate!
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My liberty-minded home base of thought:

www.ponderthis.net

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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity

Evil AND Stupid.

That's what I conjecture.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
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I think the elites are incompetent idiots.

I reject the notion that this is an "engineered crisis" to set up a one world banking empire. The elites are not mental wizards who are scheming the demise of the planet while chuckling and rubbing their hands together in glee, saying "Everything is going exactly according to plan.. heh heh heh heh heh!"

They don't need to do anything like that to bring about the changes they want. They have control over the American people already. The people are docile. If they want to have an Amero state or a World Bank, all they need to do is create it, get their pet poodle MSM to sing its praises, and to hell with anyone who complains. Sort of the same way they engineered the modern police state.

The financial empire is collapsing because it's unsound. It's out of their control.

Most of the people who run the world do so based on power from inherited wealth. They didn't build their grandfather's financial empire.

They don't know anything more about business than the "Piano-Playing Chicken" at the State Fair. The chicken knows that if it bangs the piano keys with his beak, a handful of corn will slide down a little chute and he can eat it.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

Calling everyone dumb is just ridiculous

These people are experts and know everything down to the nucleus of every angle.

"There can be only one permanent revolution - a moral one: The regeneration of the inner man."
—Tolstoy

"The body is but a vessel for the soul,
A puppet which bends to the soul's tyranny.
And lo, the body is not eternal,
For it must feed on the flesh of others,
Lest it return to the dust whence it came.
Therefore the soul deceives and despises."

If they were smart, they

If they were smart, they wouldn't be fascist-socialists in the first place.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

I'm not so shure.

Intelligence and wisdom are two different things. After all, we do have nuclear weapons, yes? Very, very intelligent weapons, but not exactly wise.

A fool and his money shall soon be parted.

Those who are in control are no fools, yet it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven.

'Poverty is your greatest asset.' -buddha
---------
"Better to be flexible like bamboo than rigid like oak, for when the storm comes bamboo will bend and survive, where as oak will crack and die."

"The world is a dynamic mess of jiggling things, if you look at it right." - Richard Feynman

I agree with some but

they lose control of absolutely NOTHING.

They control what we know.

If they 'say" markets are out of control then they are producing an illusion of "out of control" to get what they want....globalization.

Yes, they are stupid in some ways and smart in others.

I don't see it as an unstable system in that they can create what they want...boom or bust. This tells me they have control.

They would not put a fool in charge. They have some smart guys around.

Suggesting they are dumb rich kids whose fathers were smart sounds like something "they" would want us to believe. I have met my share of them and they are prudent and capable.

Calling them incompetent in one breath and affirming they basically have control over all of us just tells me that they do in fact have control.

I disagree with "dumb elites."

I completely agree that they will F it up and are in that process as we speak.

They will all face a judge and that day approaches.

It will be such a cool TV show to watch. I'm going to buy a DVR just to record the Hannity part of the trial...."Did you execute Mr. Murdoch's orders to trivialize Dr. Paul's view when interviewing him?"

That is gonna be some fun, brutha.

Unify

They do have control---over

They do have control---over the population. That doesn't make them smart.

Money controls everything, and people unknowingly worship those who have it and control it, especially in this country. That's why the elites are in charge; it's the only reason.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

The elite are not all idiots

Although some of their kids are due to centuries of inbreeding.

First, we must understand the TRUE nature of evil, not the way the MSM portays it (your description of chuckling and wringing hands reminds me of Dr. Evil). Evil people do not do this (well maybe some do behind closed doors), nor walk around with a sign on their foreheads saying "I'm evil".

And I don't think a plan this complete, perfect and pervasive could have even been thought up by a human mind. It could only come from Satan himself. I still believe that the collapses are deliberate and controlled.

____________________________

13 Bloodlines of The Illuminati
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bloodlines/

The Biological Basis of Elitism and "The Divine Right" Rule
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_div...

Two-seed theory: The origins of the psychopathic elite
www.dailypaul.com/node/68954

Political Ponerology and Psychopaths
www.dailypaul.com/node/53506

The Secret Order of The Illuminati (good overview)
www.illuminati-news.com/moriah.htm

Secret Societies and the REAL driving force behind the New World Order
www.dailypaul.com/node/59200

Interesting NomDeGuerre ArmorOfChrist777

1. I agree with you (Saint LeoPetraea), the elite are not all idiots.

2. I would add the true 'enlightened' (whether by Jesus, Allah, Satan, Mary Poppins or the Black Pope) elite are wise enough to realise that it is the real wise wo/man whose ego does not stand in the way of enabling them to see their own idiocy.....

3. In a world desperately attached to the certainty of their infallible non-idiocy and sanity; there is huge freedom in non resistance to recognising and appreciating the relief from being profanically idiotically insane (out of our fucking minds!!)

Interesting (NoSuch4NovDateAgency) Signature

A Girl Named JMCSwan
The Wimbledon TinPatriot ET's say a "Free 'Hope', Vote DemoPublican" Demockery RoastChicken Feast of 'Bon Voyage SubPrime MooMoo's' might be an interesting funeragasmal!
____________________________
"Luther was a profoundly spiritual thinker who was driven to revolt by worldly and incompetent Popes." + "Roses are red. Violets are blue. I'm schizophrenic and so am I" = Practicing Radical Hon(our)sty ColtLaw...

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CommonSism: Common Sense Guerrylla Laws 4 a Sustainable Commons

Not really competing

The NWO conspiracy (which is factual, not a theory) is the driving force behind what you see happening on the surface (lowered interest rates, government manipulation)

Good thread.

I'm a huge fan of Austrian economics AND I think most people (who are not Ron Paul supporters) would call me a "conspiracy theorist".

I think it suffices to say that the status quo is screwed up. Many people actually benefit from this. These people are highly organised. They will fight to defend it.

http://www.mises.org/Books/mysteryofbanking.pdf

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.pdf

Fluoride anyone?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0he-LZNzVg0&feature=related

Tell them

that they can call you a conspiracy theorist if you can call all of them "coincidence theorists".