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What are the good arguments for not bailing out the auto companies?

An argument that may be able to change a few people's minds.

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The problem with this debate is that is assumes

we are operating in a rational environment.

the money that will be given to the autos is NOT OUR MONEY.

it is printed by the fed at will and pumped into the economy by "monetization activities." Ie, loaning money out to whomever. I would assume that that banks will be "given" money by the fed (let's guess $30,000,000,000...the banks will then "fractionalize" the $30B and voila! lend the autos $300 billion and list it as a performing asset and put in on the asset side of the balance sheet.....whoa! Nice!

Damn I wished I owned a bank. What a gig.

Now if we get into the constitutional argument we are all nuts because there is no constitution for the government. They walked on the thing long ago.

So what is the argument for the autos?

I am a businessman. I have lost businesses. Ford Chrysler and GM should go under...see ya!

They are incompetent and a danger to society for the following reason. They suggest to people that they are going to take care of them for life through bankrupt pensions and they make people move to where their manufacturing facilities are and pay them to build obsolete junk that nobody wants and then lay them off and destroy the local economy....

By the way i own Buicks and I think they are great cars.

Meanwhile at Ford:

"Hey Roscoe?...the oil supply is paper thin and the people who have most of it either hate us or are ready to have a war...let's base our very survival on a Chevy Tahoe...it gets 14 MPG what the heck. If the oil price goes up, let's make sure we don't have ANY good small cars....I mean NONE ...the Japs and the Koreans need the money more than we do...right?"

Drive a Chrysler Sebring? That car has very little chance of competing with anything....If you only make money on trucks and the trucks use a lot of gas....why don't you make a truck that gets 35 mpg?

Your gas mileage ratings have NOT CHANGED FOR 40 GD YEARS. What you guys been doing in Detroit besides figuring out how to build cars that get lousy gas mileage IN OTHER EFFING COUNTRIES?

The engine in my Buick was designed in 1897. Oh wow it has fuel injection now!...Gee the spark plugs are modern...no more points...ooooh...it doesn't pollute as much...amaaazing!...the transmission is different...golly!

It is same same basic design. A 1919 Ford got about 22 mpg highway. 2007 Tahoe gets about 22 mpg highway. So in 110 years we got nothing besides air bags and navigation. Farmers have made more advances in the last 110 years than the car companies! Hell, fly swatters are plastic now and they come in colors!

If you suck you should go under. My Buicks will become collector's items and some American guys with real ba%$s will start to build a competitive car.


"the money that will be

"the money that will be given to the autos is NOT OUR MONEY. It is printed by the fed"...

On the contrary, this is exactly why it -is- our money. The money the Fed prints gets its value by stealing value by from the money already in circulation.

but who pays the interest to the Fed on that money?

that is the question.

Well I am against the bail

Well I am against the bail outs 100% but in my opinion its better to bail out the auto industries than some stupid bankers. The auto industry at least exports something which can bring cash into this country. Now the banks well thats another story to say the least. The auto industry is going to have to get real competitive and I mean real soon so We might actually see something that uses alternative fuels or possibly even water. I think the auto industry has finally realized their little understanding with the oil companies is not going to work. We might see some real inovation in the future. As a matter of fact We might see quality once again. Oh and so sorry for the people on retirement but thats got to go and the american people have spoke. The cars are to expensive and the quality sucks ass so thats why no one is buying.

Oh I bought two mustangs in 2006 and I have to admit the metal in them is about as thick as tin foil and gets dinged up all the time so thats what I am refering to with quality.

ive got a good reason...

if you were paying attention this past week, you would have noticed that GM has just released to the press the finalization of a $300M auto plant in Russia. That makes 3 plants for GM, 3 plants for Ford. in Russia (or so i believe).

You, the tax payer, just funded 25B to GM not too long ago (and theyre asking for more by basically threatening that theyll be out of cash by next year. any respectable private company would NOT do this for fears of abandoning investors and stock price goes in the tank) Theyre using scare tactics holding the jobs of some odd thousands of jobs to secure more free cash.

that 300M dollar plant in russia was bought, and paid for, by you, the tax payer. and now it will house some near 2000 foreign employees to build the cars that it cant afford to build and ship here in the US to other markets.

as many here have posted already, the real question is, why on earth are auto companies receiving bailouts at all?! its sheer lunacy. all of it.

The burden of proof lies with those who want to bail them out.

That being said, these are some reasons not to do it:

1) It's unconstitutional. There is no power granted to the Federal government to make payments to support failing businesses.

2) It's bad for the economy. The bailout money will be taken from people who earned it, and given to companies that didn't earn it.

3) You get what you pay for. If you pay companies for taking excessive risks, then a lot more companies will do so.

4) The auto industry isn't in trouble at all. Three particular companies are in trouble, not the industry as a whole. If Ford, GM and Chrysler go belly-up, we'll still be able to buy American-made cars if we want, from plants in Ohio and California owned and operated by Toyota and Honda.

5) The facilities can be put to better use. If these companies go belly-up, the bankruptcy will result in their assets being sold at auction to people who will risk their own money, not the taxpayers', on profitable use of the factories and equipment.

6) The money can be put to better use. Money given or lent to failed automakers isn't available to fund businesses that make products that people actually want to buy.

7) Unions need to understand that if they make unsustainable demands, they might just lose the whole ball game when the company goes belly-up. This will make them rather more reasonable in negotiations, which reduces labor costs, which makes cars cheaper for those of us who eventually buy cars.

Hope this helps,


"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel

A more simple example of why

A more simple example of why this is wrong:

If the people you are debating this with have kids, ask what they think about rewarding their kids when they are bad and punishing them when they are good.


First would probably be that

First would probably be that it is ILLEGAL. The federal government has zero constitutional authority to do such a thing. The constitution can be changed to permit this sort of action, if the people want it, but as it stands now these bailouts are unconstitutional and, therefore, illegal.

Next reason is that if the companies that were terribly mismanaged fail then that will wipe out their debt and their assets (factories, intellectual property, etc) will be bought up (maybe for pennies on the dollar) by companies that are operated in a fiscally responsible manner. We would end up with better/stronger auto companies as a result.

Bailing out the losers only gives incentive to a losing behavior. When we do not value and reward fiscal responsibility by the good companies then we could end up with even more companies being operated in really bad ways. The strong companies have positioned themselves to scoop up the assets of the failures, that is their reward for being responsible and these bailouts take that reward away from them.


In a word ...


I don't know

They don't want to bailout the auto industry, and as a grandson of an american auto dealer I really am worried about our cars. I wish we could do something.


1. Every dollar you spend

1. Every dollar you spend on bailing out Ford or GM, is a dollar you steal from someone who did the right thing.

2. No Bad Company Left Behind. No Good Company Gets Ahead.

3. Reward the stupid. Punish the smart.

4. Who told Ford and GM that they could lend money at firesale prices to just about anyone?!!! Greed told them. Fear's on the phone. He's not very happy...

5. Ford and GM used to be in the business of making necessary transportation. Now their into selling status symbols. Let them fail, and we can get back to basics.

6. Give them millions now, they'll be asking for billions later.

"Ford and GM used to be in

"Ford and GM used to be in the business of making necessary transportation. Now their into selling status symbols. Let them fail, and we can get back to basics."

Huh?? Since when are Ford and GM brands status symbols except for Cadillac, Lincoln, and arguably Saab?

since they found out that

since they found out that making cars wasn't making them rich, so they got into the business of FINANCING cars for as long as 8 years.

using cheap credit.

to do this, they needed a better carrot.

I know many families who combined total car payments = nearly half their monthly income.

So they can ride around in $45,000 suburbans, their sons in fully loaded Ford F350 1 tons, and their daughters in nifty little sport coupes.

The suburbs are filled with these idiots.

Big three bailout

The free market has determined that the U.S. auto makers are inferior.
Now they want the people to co-sign a loan for them. I think not...
The free market has determined that their borrowing rate should be 10-14%.
because of their credit risk. This is a corporation (individual) according to the IRS. This person called GM can not secure loans at reasonable rates because of a low credit score. Too bad!! I was a builder at one time and moved on to a new city and new career unrelated to building. That is the beauty of free enterprise. This bailout is just another entitlement program from the dems to secure the votes from Michigan residents in the next election.
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel recent results for Auto bailout 72% no 28% yes.
About the same results as the bogus bank Bailout.


This one is an easy one. How bout the fact it is unconstitutional. The government is never supposed to use tax payer money to fund anything except to run the government and for roads, defending the borders, etc. Remember the phrase "no taxation without representation"?

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unions today suck

because the current auto makers are all strapped down by uneducated, unskilled people making 80k a year turning bolts on assembling lines.
They are always getting bailed out and always seem to fail. Why??? Because they make big ass gas guzzlers that all look like boxes with wheels. They lose value the second you drive it off the lot and they rape people by saying you get a 1% interest rate while they charge you 10% more for the new car smell.

In the marketplace, the most effective regulation…

…comes from the consumer base. The government sticks its big old ugly butt in—messes up everything (surprise). This should explain.

--Cliff, Sioux City, Iowa

One thing about my logic; it almost always sounds logical.
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I'd rather give inner-city

I'd rather give inner-city crack whores welfare money than failing multinational corporations.

Crack whores are cheaper and serve more of a useful purpose.

Support the Constitution of the United States

Support the Constitution of the United States

You are quite a misogynist.

You are quite a misogynist.

"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

Hey that's not fair

Kevin is nothing like a mysoginist. Not by a long shot.

*Bah* I'm too tired to be witty.

Stupid is the new sexy -- me.


*Bah* I'm too tired to be witty.

Stupid is the new sexy -- me.

When the rapture happens - can I have your car?



How is it misogynistic to give money to crack whores? Is it not misogynistic to take money from crack whores and give it to auto whores? And what would make auto whores more deserving of stolen money than crack whores?

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That's easy...

It's unconstitutional, just as the original bailout is/was.

Write to your so-called

Write to your so-called political representatives and give them hell. While you're at it, send a note indicating your displeasure to our president elect. He needs to know why we're pissed also.

"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore

ecorob's picture

its already been proven...

you would be wasting your time...

O Captain, My Captain, rise up and hear the bells!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

America has no money to bail out anyone?

We are broke! Busted! No Money for anything. Americans think that their creditcard bill get lost and no one has to pay them.


A. There is absolutely no justification for gov't to prop up a failing business in the private sector big or small,........ZERO! It is outside govt's lawful jurisdiction.

B. It won't solve the REAL problem the big 3 have chosen not to address FOR DECADES...........they continue to be content building vehicles most if not all of which are below the quality and long-term reliability of much of their competition, particularly Honda and Toyota.

who killed the electric car?

and had they not killed it, would the fascist be bailing out the car companies right now?...probably not.

Sorry, cognative thought.

is tough when all you can muster in your head is profanities, especially knowing how much the auto industry and oil has suppressed technologies and stifled freedom for humanity by trapping them in an oil addiction because of their greed and lust for power..

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Here's a great line of reasoning ...

thats simplistic enough to share with everyone you know.
The comments on the blog with this article are well worth a quick read through too.

Ask yourself:

"How many bailout checks have I received from any of the auto makers"?