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Open Thread: How do we solve the crisis?

By we, I mean "we the people."

What has become apparent so far is that the large institutions that we have tasked with running our society have been inept in 1) anticipating the crisis, 2) understanding the crisis and 3) taking steps to solve it.

The government's answer is the same as ever: Print more money. But you can't solve the problem of inflation with more inflation. That will just get us deeper in the hole. And look at the response of corporations, which has been no better. GM hasn't built a decent car for 40 years or more. They're washed up as an organization, and they're begging for money, too.

I've heard stories of credit card companies that are lowering responsible customers' credit limits - to below customers' outstanding balances - then saying, "You're over your limit." Then they raise the interest rate and charge a hefty monthly "over limit fee." I cannot think of a better example of parasitic corporate behavior.

I will be away for the weekend. In the mean time, this thread is a place to discuss alternative solutions to the crisis. The problem with the "solutions" we've seen so far from the government / the Fed is that they seem to have absolutely no understanding of the myriad problems we're facing. Credit is one problem, but it is a symptom, not the root problem.

In your comments, please address what you believe to be the root of the problem, and then how to we solve it?

Also, I'd like to hear comments on something I've been thinking about recently - alternative currencies. As we head into what is likely to be a Second Great Depression, a problem we'll see again is: a lot of people looking for work; a lot of work to be done; but no money to pay them. Alternative currencies are a parallel system of exchange that bypasses FRNs and I believe they are tax free. They are usually community based, but with the internet, we could have a big community!

For example, check out this article:

Money is like an iron ring we've put through our noses. We've forgotten that we designed it, and it's now leading us around. I think it's time to figure out where we want to go - in my opinion toward sustainability and community - and then design a money system that gets us there.

Has anyone here ever used alternative currencies? What can we learn from the Feds' raid of the Liberty Dollar, which was a gold-backed currency? What role could these currencies play in solving the 'crisis?'



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My idea:

My idea: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/73473

Doc Holladay
Nashville, TN
http://www.myspace.com/docholladaymusic

www.reverbnation.com/docholladaymusic

Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

Withdraw your support of institutions not aligned with values

Head right on over to http://solari.com and watch Katherine Fitts' DVD on how to create a sustainable economy.

Support localism, invest in your network, your community. Build local social institutions. Withdraw your money from New York and DC.

Don't be a hermit but make sure your money and your time are working for you, not them.

Over-the-top legislation

got us where we are today. Restrictions, prohibitions, and phony morality.
There are no excuses for the feds trying to push their morals onto the general population.
How do you resolve that? Follow the constitution. Get the gov off our backs. Live and let live.
Competing currency? How about a hemp based dollar. Gold is worth so much now that I'm not sure how we could possibly survive the deflation of the current FRN if it were suddenly backed by gold.
Hemp is probably the most valuable crop in the world. It is green technology at it's finest. Everything from clothing to ethanol can be made from this fast producing crop. Easy on the environment too.
Too many people want to tell us how to live. Too many people are trying to preserve what we currently have. Too many people in prison for doing things that shouldn't even be illegal. Too many laws for a free country.

FED

Thank you for contacting me regarding the Federal Reserve. I appreciate hearing from you and would like to take this opportunity to respond.

As you may know, on June 15, 2007, Representative Ron Paul (R-TX) introduced the Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (H.R. 2755). This legislation would repeal the Federal Reserve Act by abolishing the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and each Federal Reserve Bank. H.R. 2755 has been referred to the House Committee on Financial Services. Currently, there is no related legislation pending in the Senate. Should H.R. 2755, or similar legislation be considered in the Senate, I will be sure to keep your thoughtful comments in mind.

Again, thank you for sharing your views with me. If you have any additional questions or comments, please do not hesitate to let me know. In addition, for more information about issues and activities important to Florida, please sign up for my weekly newsletter at http://martinez.senate.gov.

Sincerely,

Mel Martinez
United States Senator

Debbie's picture

This legislation is being talked about more and more now -

I hear about it on the radio, people saying it needs to be supported! Mel Martinez voted for the "No Bank Left Behind" bailout both times, despite his constituents being against it.

"We will never give up. We will never give in." Congressman Dr. Ron Paul

Debbie

The John Birch Society

The JBS has the tools set up in place. The creater Robert Welch was a genious. Every month there is a meeting and everyone gets together and writes letters to the editors and representatives. The JBS has stopped more unconstitutional laws then you are even aware of, like the Con-con in 87 and the NAFTA superhighway construction. Just by educating people. It is real easy now to contact reps through their website. The JBS has been fighting for the constitution for 50 years. They have never told a false truth like other freedom institutions.

Debbie's picture

Very true, and what a great idea to have

monthly meetings or get-togethers to write your editors and reps!!

"We will never give up. We will never give in." Dr. Ron Paul

Debbie

Abolish the FED....

The root of all of our problems in my opinion, is the fed. If the spending congress has no access to fiat currency, they would be forced to stay within financial boundaries. No gold, no bailouts.
I wrote my senator in Florida, Mel Martinez concerning Dr. Pauls bill to end the fed. He actually responded in a favorable reply. I think that there are folks out there who might actually back a bill to end the fed.
A sound currency and ending the fiat monetary system is where we need to concentrate our energy.

Debbie's picture

You are right, but I must tell you, Martinez reply is neither

favorable nor unfavorable, it is a non-committal form letter that all reps send you. They just describe the legislation to you that you just wrote them about, thank you for sharing your views, and tell you they will keep your comments in mind and share it with their colleagues. Martinez would vote against any legislation to abolish the FED. He voted BOTH times for the bailout against the wishes of his constituents. He unfortunately was not up for re-election this time, but next time - THROW THE BUM OUT!!

Debbie

Duped

Thanks for the insight Debbie. I didn't think Martinez was such a slug.
Yeah, he goes too.

The truth never sleeps

The truth shall set us free.
On November 17th, 2008 RawfoodLiberty says:
The vast part of the world population has access to and is "on" to truth . . . . . The truth never sleeps . . . . . it's nudged by radio and satellite. The truth shall set us free. And that's good for everybody, including "them".
"If it's to be, it's up to me." I love you all. - RawfoodLiberty.

And never forget, “Humans, despite our artistic pretensions, our sophistication and many accomplishments, owe the fact of our existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.”

How to Solve It

We cannot solve this crisis. We need to welcome this recession; after all, it is just the market correcting itself from all the malinvestment. However, we can protect ourselves as individuals. Following the advice of Peter Schiff and opening a portfolio with Euro Pacific Capital would be a great way to preserve your wealth.

Unfortunately, I believe the only way sound economic theory will be recognized by the majority of Americans once again is through the fast approaching financial crisis. The dollar's position as the world reserve currency will make this crisis felt worldwide; and end with the destruction of our currency.

This much, as I understand it, is certain. However, it remains to be seen what will become of popular opinion in the United States after our inflationary depression. Perhaps finally the sheep among us (Napolitano shout out) will become wolves and no longer be misinformed by our looters in Washington.

There is ONLY ONE

way to solve the crisis...WE NEED to re-seat all of the original jurisdiction governments, State and National (period). If we continue concentrating our efforts in these small battles, we will not win the war. It's like shooting bb's at a rhinoceros...

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/72962
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/72290
http://teamlaw.net/Government/usmap.htm

"We dare not forget that we are heirs of that first revolution" -JFK

I have been reading this thread:

since it fist came up and finally decided to make a comment.
I like the way you think. I have taken as much time as I possibly can to read at the team law website and I have found it most intriguing. Over the past year or more as I watch what is going on and continue studying the history that has put us where we are now, this site makes great sense to me. It is what I have thought all along and as our constitution says, we have the right to institute a new government. But in order to do just that, it better be done right.
All of the "I's" better be dotted, all of the "T's" crossed. I believe that time is of the essence. We know we can't do it using the system that the corporation has set up, but maybe it can be done the way the true law is.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love my country
I am appalled by my government

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love my country
I am appalled by my government

It's like being donkey punched in the gut

after realizing the facts and history behind it.

I have to give credit to FreeManOnLand, Samuel Howell Jr., and Habit4ming for trying to keep this topic alive...I have just barely broke the threashold with this. I found that teamlaw's forum is a great place just to go and read everything there...chaulk full of info.
http://www.teamlawproductions.com/phpBB/

It just bothers me that this topic gets buried and can't remain on the front page when it has EVERYTHING to do with the issues we face today.

Spread the word and lets put this in hyperdrive!!!

"We dare not forget that we are heirs of that first revolution" -JFK

It is ironic that it gets

It is ironic that it gets buried and/or ignored. There are many people in this movement that love conspiracy theories, but when faced with the facts that can be verified as a matter of public record, they simply cannot believe it.

However, just because someone doesn't believe a particular assertion which that person never endeavored to verify the sources of, does not make it untrue, only unknown.

WE cannot solve this, so WE can only protect ourselves..

WE cannot solve this, so WE can only protect ourselves..

at this point in time. It is foolhardy to think otherwise. It is OBVIOUS, or should be by now, that with TOLITARIAN CONTROL of our MEDIA TV for propaganda WHICH WORKS, and with TOTAL control over our politicians (the majority thereof), we have zip power, folks.

The only thing we can do at this point in time is protect ourselves. By that I mean the following:

STOP ALL "unneccesary" PURCHASES---like TV's, keep your car & just fix it if needed, stop buying ANY crap out there

STOP eating out so much---I guess instead of going to fast food, or expensive restaurants, you can cut that easily by 50% or MORE

STOP risking your money in the stock market, or if you do, play with only very small amount of shares

START paying off ALL your debts. Use the "fold down" theory where you concentrate all your extra money on paying 1 debt. When it's paid off, move all your money into paying off the 2nd debt. This means that while you are focusing on paying huge amounts on 1 debt, you pay the "minimum" monthly payment on your other debts.

START buying non-persihable foods for the future, like canned goods or Ramen noodles.

GOOD LUCK to my Ron Paul friends...

I suppose you have stock in noodle companies?

hmmmm.

Unify

The Easy Solution to the Crisis

Every citizens of the US should apply to become a Bank Holding Company and apply to Henry Paulson for a Treasury bailout.

Why not?

Exactly...

:)

Or just take out loans from the overnight window at the fed. Help them break the dam the rest of the way down by forcibly helping push and pull the water through! The faster we help them break it the faster it will get to a point to actually build something proper with the manure left over. ;)

The only way out is forward!

How about

if we set up citizens banks and do banking right.

banking Right

For along time now we have seen the problems with the federal reserve, the IRS/ What is Income?/Labor and what we as free people consider LIBERTY.

We need a Bank of the People where SSN are not required and all data is private. Really, Not even government is allowed to know. Then we can begin to accumulate power back from the system that has swindled USA.

HOW TO SOLVE IT!?

wait till it goes deeper ... so we can resolve it with a creepier solution!

haha April fools will be indeed funny!

The root of the problem is

The root of the problem is what we call our government is a private foreign corporation (USA) owned by the IMF. The solution is to finish reseating the original jurisdiction government. This is happening whether one wants to believe it or not: http://teamlaw.org/Government/usmap.htm

solving the housing crisis and restoring confidence

Just my two cents......

Begin at the beginning. Follow the paper trail backwards and undue the process of packaging the faulty loans and selling them multiple times. It is not the fault of who eventually ended up with this worthless trash, it is who ORIGINATED the loans.
*Track the original borrowor and lender down. Shouldn't be hard as a foreclosure should be in their names and the original loan officier.

APPLY CONSEQUENCES for FRAUD to the lender and homeowner.

GREED should be punished with fines and jail time to lenders (more than a handful of foreclosures directly attributable to any individual loan officier) sieze their personal assets and access fines multiplied by 10. Why should they personally profit at Americas expense?

Homeowners borrowing the money - original applications should be rechecked and if fraud was present then jail time for fraud should be sought and all credit stripped from indivduals borrowers so they never again have the chance to SPECULATE with other peoples money.

Oversaturation of homes on market. BULLDOZE them. If the population does NOT support the oversupply of homes on the market anyway, then all that we have is the homeowners equity that is being jeopardized who actually in fact paid their mortgages and took their responsibility seriously.

Lending institutions where the bad mortgages originated. Return THEIR worthless paper to them. The buck started and stops here. They had the responsibility to manage and oversee their employees instead of handing out and taking staggering bonuses. Their consequence should be to FAIL. How dare they send their dirty laundry across the financial network of our country, correction....globally without consequence. Any profits made during that period of time should be accessed and repaid to the taxpayer even if we have to garnish their executives compensation to do it.

While I do not think that it will be even a drop in the bucket for returning what funds are missing, I do believe that a task force putting these people in Jail, recovering their stolen assets and bulldozing their white elephants will RESTORE CONFIDENCE in this housing crisis.

We need to punish the right people. The taxpayer is being gutted with this responsibility of rescue as well as having their equity disappear in their homes. The rest of the world is watching that toilet flush with no one seeming to know what course of action to take.

THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD ACT WITH FAIRNESS/FIRMNESS IF THEY WANT OTHER COUNTRIES TO INVEST IN US AND FOLLOW OUR LEAD OUT OF THE TOILET.

JMHO

Republicae's picture

Thats pure New Deal....kill

Thats pure New Deal....kill the livestock, plough under the crops...don't think that is a wise option.

http://www.1776solution.blogspot.com

I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. Barry Goldwater

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

bulldoze homes?

Sounds like you're a little bitter from losing the "equity" in your house.

Houses were never meant to be "investments". Once the price of an average home was far beyond my modest means I knew a bubble was starting in the housing market. If an average guy can't afford an average house then something's not right.

Let's start the blame game where it belongs- the Federal Reserve, Freddie/Fannie. The Fed's have been loaning money at absurd rates to banks. The funny thing is if a bank was run conservatively over the last 15 years they have probably been getting their butt kicked in the market.
The Gov't at all levels continues to overspend. If "deficits don't matter" to the government, why should they matter to the citizens? The only way to reverse course is to reign in government spending, lower taxes and start letting innovative companies rise up from the ashes of government subsidized monopolies and mal-investment. It will mean pain, which means it won't happen by design- we'll go down kicking and screaming "give us our bread and circuses"

But what if they orchestrated the 'crisis" in order to assist

them with their goals?

The plan is not for anyone to lead anyone out of the toilet.

The plan is to eliminate US sovereignty and that is what is happening right now.

Unify

Some fallacies you should consider

1. Individuals and household debt is partly to blame for the crisis.

Only in rare cases. Part of the credit cycle is ever rising prices for necessities. Most peole are unable to avoid paying higher and higher prices for house and cars - the biggest contributors to personal debt. This is a function of FED INFLATION. Most individuals are simply making a rational decision to use credit offered them by the fraudulent banking system to survive. In the credit cycle, debt is forced onto people in many ways.

2. The Gold Standard

This was a creation of the bankers. It is a bankers scheme. Government should have no involvement in the definition of money. The US mint was established to provide free coinage to encourage commerce. Money should be anything you and your counterparty agree upon. What we want is an end to all types of counterfeiting. This includes all fraudulent promises to pay including notes, bills, stock certificates, shares, futures contracts, derivatives, etc. For example - a short seller of stock or gold futures should have the ability to deliver or pay up if he loses - no bank, CFTC, SEC, FED or TREASURY market rigging and rules changes. The market can define money just fine without government legal tender laws and other definitions. Money can be gold, silver platinum, salt, fertilizer, corn, oil .... whatever.

3. Just stop printing money and let the economy correct itself.

This leaves all the chips in the hands of the bankers. They will own everything. One ethical solution to the crisis would be the printing of enough money to make up for the purchasing power stolen from the people and distribute it to the people is was stolen from. This would simultaneously repay victims, bring the dollar to fair value and extinguish debt. A solution that encourages the hoarders of fiat money will perpetuate the system. Be wary of Wall Street people preaching austerity - they are only interested in preserving the purchasing power of their fiat based bonds and preserving the FED.

4. Unbridled capitalism always fails.

Unbridled capitalism has NEVER failed.

Very good points

You obviously have extensive knowledge of the way the system works, so would also like to ask if you or anyone else who has thoughts on wether it is ethical to refuse to pay off credit card debt? There are several programs out there that claim they can legally invalidate debt.