Liberty Dollar - Is this a scam?
Submitted by Fed-up_with the Fed on Sun, 11/16/2008 - 21:13
Does anyone know what the deal is with the Liberty Dollar?
Are their claims true?
Has anyone here any experience with this?
If it is legit, what do you think of its prospects competing against the Amero?
Will the folks behind this be assassinated like Lincoln and Kennedy for promoting a real precious metal-backed currency outside the grip of the Fed and World Banksters?
Thanks for your inputs.
»





















Scam
Let's put it this way. If someone tries to pass one of those "$50" rounds as being worth $50 FRN, he is working a scam. The metal content of the one ounce round is currently under $10 FRN. Consider this: They changed the face value of the rounds from $10 to $20 to $50 without raising the silver content proportionately. That is pretty severe debasement. Draw your own conclusions.
If you want real "liberty dollars," google for "Walking Liberty dollar" or "junk silver." Those are coins from US mints, produced prior to 1965 when a US dollar was defined as .7734 troy ounces of fine silver.
You can also buy various kinds of silver rounds that contain 1 troy ounce of fine silver. They are kind of pricey compared to large silver bars right now, but they are available on the internet for $12.26 as I type this. Coins like the US Silver Eagle are commanding even higher premiums. They can be had for $14.56. Of course, the prices change moment by moment when the bullion markets are open.
The Bottomline
Yeah, it's legit if you're looking for a Private Voluntary Barter Currency. In that sense, it's no different than Shire Silver, Phoenix Dollars, Ithaca Hours and so on.
HOWEVER... if you're looking to protect the value of your money AND get the most bang for your buck, you'd be better off just buying silver and gold bullion coins and bars.
Unlike the U.S. Mint, which uses our tax dollars to pay for it's overhead, the Liberty Dollar has to raise it's denominated "base value" higher than it's inherent metal value in order to pay it's costs and make a profit.
Unfortunately, that base value is far overpriced, currently at 5x the current value of Silver. This is because the base value moved up just before the current economic troubles and has yet to move back down to something more reasonable.
Personally, I only buy interesting, low-cost items (like the recent copper dollars) from them for my collection and choose bullion as a store of value.
If their new leadership was savvy, they'd offer more reasonably-priced numismatic rounds without denominations.
One ounce of silver for $50....
doesn't sound like a good investment. What's the deal?
It's not an investment.
It's not an investment. Get bullion if you want to invest. Get Liberty Dollars only if you intend to use them amongst close friends and family you do business with or for their numismatic value.
Ultimately, the Liberty Dollar as it was envisioned is little more than a Doomsday-scenario currency. If government fails (as in "goes bottoms up, dead as a doornail, kaput.") and you're holding paper government dollars, those will be worth the paper they're printed on. Likewise with the Liberty Dollars (which are made of precious metals and will always be worth something).
Of course, you could do the same thing with bullion at a far lower cost.
Still a very bad idea
That's no way to treat a close friend.
If you want something to "use amongst close friends," use tokens that aren't priced at three times their intrinsic value.
Actually, defined...
It is constitutional money. It's not a scam but the real issue is will the feds intervene? Since they already have it's not hard to conclude that the LD certificates are not completely guaranteed safe. But I mean who is? I would accept them for payment no question. If there was widespread use amongst the populace and you had a choice. You could accept LDs when you want save that wealth and accept FRNs to pay taxes to keep the feds off your back.
In microcosm those merchants that accept the LD and end up "getting stuck with it" will be holding something of value. The worst thing that can happen by circulating LDs is a clerk or a manager will have to cover difference in the balance sheet in FRNs at the close of the business day and they themselves will assume ownership of something of real value.
Take a 10 dollar silver piece and stand outside of a fast food restaurant at lunch time. Ask any passer-byer if they have ten dollars that they would be willing to trade because the restaurant wouldn't take it. See how fast you get 10 FRNs. Since the 10 dollar silver piece has intrinsic value as soon as someone takes possession of it they have made an investment.
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."
Lawsuit pending...
I understand there is a lawsuit pending against the FBI, I believe. Anyone think they can beat the G-men?
“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost.” -- John Quincy Adams
I think there should be a
I think there should be a Liberty Dollar link at the top of Daily Paul.
" When policemen break the law there is no law, just the fight for survival"
~ Quote by Billy Jack www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQWCAVzM384
NO!
No, no, no.
Why not do some research?
http://www.google.com/search?q=liberty+dollar&ie=utf-8&oe=ut...
___ _____ _____ _____ ______ ______ _____ ___
“Revolutions never go backward.”
Wendell Phillips
≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈ ≈
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make
violent revolution inevitable."
John F. Kennedy
i ordered from them.
never got my product or a refund. yet they are still in business taking new orders.
you make the call.
--------------
if you build it he will come..........Ron Paul 2012.
digg http://digg.com/autos/First_Genuine_Chevy_Volt_to_be_Complet...
You're being disingenuous.
You're being disingenuous. The only reason you likely didn't get your order is because the FBI robbed them, taking all their gold, silver and copper as well as their computers and whatever else.
If you really wanted what you were owed, you must have signed aboard the lawsuit to get the stolen goods returned.
Liberty Dollar is
Liberty Dollar is debatable..
But I got one of the silver Ron Paul liberty dollars before NORFED was raided. I even got Dr. Paul to sign it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHjacK3lnxY
couldnt help but post some of these success strories...from web.
" I couldn't believe the overwhelmingly positive response I got tonight. "
Matt Whitlock, Gainesville, FL
I couldn't believe the overwhelmingly positive response I got tonight.
I ordered some pizzas online from my local Domino's and the total was $14.89. I had three tens and three ones in my wallet, but I felt like spreading some Liberty, so I left two of the tens on my desk and took a $100 bill from my drawer and added it to my wallet. Thus, I set out to pick up my pizza (I never have it delivered) with $113 USD and $2 ALD.
When I got there and the guy at the counter told me the total, I opened my wallet and thumbed through the bills and told him, "I'm a bit short on small bills at the moment. I can give you fifteen if you take Liberty Dollars," and I put the fifteen on the counter, "or I have this," taking out and holding up the hundred, "if you can break a hundred."
The guy smiled and said, "I don't know if we take Liberty Dollars, let me ask," and he went back to the prep tables to ask the manager.
They both came back to the counter and the manager picked up the bills I had laid on the counter and held them up, and they both began to read the text printed on them. I just stood there quietly and calmly while they read the text to themselves. The guy was smiling and nodding as he read.
When they finished, the guy made a comment like, "that's awesome," and I told them briefly about how it's a private competitor to the Federal Reserve like FedEx is to the postal service and how it's inflation-proof because it's backed by silver, which has real value, rather than being backed by nothing. And the manager said, "that's really cool," took a couple of dollars out of her pocket, put them in the cash drawer, and said, "there, problem solved." She went off into the back, still holding up the Liberty Dollar certificates and reading them again. The guy was smiling the entire time.
This was my first attempt at spending Liberty Dollars, and I'm amazed at the reaction I got. It seems people really are concerned about the state of the dreaded FRNs and are ready and willing to accept a better alternative.
" It's happening "
Dan Doering, Cheektowaga, NY
As you know, I am dedicated and a true believer in the Liberty Dollar. Thirty years ago when I was in my late teens and then twenty's, I was a customer of a gas station in Buffalo, NY. Three brothers owned it and they were all bachelors. Robert, who was in his 40's at that time told me that the money system was corrupted. That the Federal Reserve Note was not owned by the government. The green paper that I worked all week for was not "lawful money."
I couldn't believe that I had been deceived by the schools system and the media. At first I thought that Bob was a fool or at least had his facts backward, anyway that conversation prompted me to do the research. What I found was so unbelievable, but what could I do about it?
There was no solution till Mr. Griffin and you came up with a solution. I found that alternative at Clarita's Hair Salon on Transit Road, Clarence, NY about 8 years ago. I have been a supporter since then.
Yes, it takes effort. Yes it is difficult to educate the people. Yes, some of them don't believe what I tell them. Yes, sometimes they think I'm a nut.
But, the satisfaction of seeing the faces glow when they see the beautiful Liberty Dollar makes the effort worthwhile. More and more people are learning the truth. I guess that about 70 percent of the people that I show it to give me positive encouragement.
I give credit to the internet. It would be much harder without it. The article from the Clev. Fed. By Bruce Champ hasn't hurt.
I think of that radical intellectual Thomas Paine who used his own capital to have his book "Common Sense" printed some 235 years ago. But he did it and it helped to affect change for the better. That is our charge today.
To answer your question, I have not been paying too much attention to the California Liberty. I have been out in the field, spending Liberties on every day items, food, clothing, gas. However I shall do some serious study this weekend.
"these Silver Libertys are spending like hotcakes"
Nicolas Leobold, New York City, NY
I'm experiencing incredible success spending with Liberty Dollars. In the past two weeks, I've made the following purchases with $10 or $20 dollar Silver Liberty, all at face value (I've NEVER been offered LESS than face value for a LD in my life):
1. 5 taxicab rides in Manhattan, received change
2. Paid for popcorn, bottle of water and a candy at the movie concession stand.
3. Bought a table lamp today for a $20 Liberty plus four FRN dollar bills.
4. Bought half a dozen donuts at Dunkin Donuts yesterday.
5. Purchased a signed copy of John Chodes' "Destroying the Republic: Jabez Curry and the Re-education of the Old South" when he spoke at the Manhattan LP meeting on Monday.
6. Bought a bagel and cream cheese for $1.50 with a $10 Liberty across from Grand Central Station at a Korean grocery, received $8.50 change. The Korean guy was laughing in joy the whole time holding the coin.
7. Spent 3 $20 Liberty pieces over the past 2 months at a local Ukrainian diner.
8. Tipped the bartender after the Manhattan LP meeting with a $10 Liberty and gave her a brochure.
9. Exchanged a $10 piece for $8.50 for an Associate we met at the screening of Aaron Russo's "From Freedom to Fascism" on Long Island.
Folks, these Silver Libertys are spending like hotcakes. It's all a matter of attitude. We're doing people a favor and restoring value to America. Typical conversations I've had using the Liberty Dollar:
"What is this?!"
"It's a $20 dollar silver piece. It's pure silver."
"Is it real?"
"Yes, it's real. It's pure silver."
"This is new, right?"
"Yup. 1995, 1996. Pure silver. It's a Liberty Dollar."
"Can I use this?" "Sure, you can use it to buy anything. You just can't pay your taxes with it."
"Is this legal to use?"
"Absolutely. It's 100% legal. The U.S. Treasury, the U.S. Secret Service, and the Federal Reserve all confirm that it's completely legal and legitimate. You just can't say that it's 'legal tender.'"
"Can I buy that one from you? Do you have any more?"
"Sure, I have a few pieces here, and some certificates. Give me your email, I'll send you some more information."
"I'm keeping this. I'm buying it for myself."
"It's a greatlife"
S. Coerper, Raleigh, NC
Got my Starter Kit today, also visited a restaurant and they want 10 Libertys in a week. I'm very nearly out. It's a great life.
"It was awesome"
M. Symonds, Dallas, TX
I am writing this to Liberty Dollar in hopes that it can be used to help with
support. This weekend I had the honor of attending a rally in my
state capital (Austin). I had the chance to meet face to face with
other RC's. I had a lot of fun and got to help educate a lot of
people. It was awesome.
I am also proud to say that my entire trip was funded with The Liberty Dollar. I used it everywhere I went. My main reason for
writing this is to let the people, who are RC's and are not active
know. It's time to get active and get the currency into the hands of
the people.
I read the news letter from last month and was a little disturbed at
what the news paper article said. I am here to tell you that the
major chains and businesses will accept them. Here is a list of some
of the places I used them.
Joe's Fina Mart / Placido TX
James Texaco / Lolita TX
Jack In The Box / Austin TX
Chevron / Schulenburg TX
McDonalds / Port Lavaca TX
Wal-Mart / Port Lavaca TX
Reeds Grocery / Odem TX
Exxon / Odem TX
H.E.B. (a major grocery store through out Texas) / Sinton TX
Dos Hermanos Mexican Food / Edna TX (They also got $80 worth from me
before I left)
Texaco / Richmond TX
Baskins Outlet Mall (Tommy Hilfiger Store) / Livingston TX
Pizza Hut / Sinton TX
To name just a few......
I used only Liberty Dollars at each of these places and as you can
see most are major chains. On my road trip I spent over $700 in the
Liberty Dollars. I only had one place reject it because they had
received it before and their bank said it was not accepted there.
After a brief explanation on how to use it as a Liberty Merchant at a
profit he gladly (the owner) took the info and one Liberty Dollar and
was eager to look at it from that standpoint.
This was one of my most enjoyable trips in a long time. My wife even
spent some along with my grandmother. My mother is the manager of a
chain of Pizza Huts, she is going to bring it up at the next board
meeting about the profit that can be earned by becoming a Liberty
Merchant. She was real excited about it believes that this is the
answer for all the problems we experience today. She will gladly
accept them at her stores and put them back into the hands of the
public.
So as you can see, this is the time to start spending and bring this
country back to value on dollar at a time. The people I encountered
are FED UP.... And again it's fun...
"I'm so pumped..."
A. Haas
I'm bursting with excitement and I just have to tell someone about this.
I got my packet on Friday. I had made up a 2-page FAQ in anticipation of the kit, so I printed and made several copies. Then I attached a brochure to each FAQ. Then, Saturday, I nervously I went to the local Giant Eagle grocery store.
On my way in, a guy from one of those portrait places stopped me. I struck up a conversation with him, showed him the Liberty Dollars and left a informational kit with him. He was reading intently as I walked away.
I picked up the groceries I needed, and then headed to the checkout line. The total was $18.37. So, I pulled out a $10 FRN and a $10 Liberty and casually handed it over. The cashier ooohhed and aahed, but she had to check with the manager, to which I said sure. She came back with the manager following and said she couldn't take it, since they didn't know about it and the bank wasn't open.
I said that's ok, it's been used only 4 years, so many people still haven't seen it yet, but here's some information about the private currency and you can contact the organization or visit their website. I then paid in FRN�s.
Just now, I went to the local Sav-A-Lot grocery store. The total was $11.19, so I pulled out a $10 Liberty and a $10 FRN. The cashier was intrigued and said she had never seen these before. I nonchalantly said it was a new silver-backed private currency being used for 4 years, and the piece she was holding was genuine silver. I also handed her a information kit so she could do some reading about it.
To my complete and utter surprise, she handed me change - in FRN's. I acted like this was completely normal, though I was so excited. I slowly walked out of the store, though half expecting someone to collar me and tell me I had to come back and pay in FRN's.
Then I came home, and handed an information kit to my next door neighbor, showed him the currency and told him to spread the word.
I had a good day. I'm so pumped. That first one was hard. But, Giant Eagle has some items I want on sale next week, so I going to another branch and see what happens.
"I had no idea it could be this easy"
J. Pratt, Austin, TX
I've had great fun and great success using the Liberty Dollar since I came across it a few months ago. It's a simple and easy way to be an activist for change in America.
I've used the currency in restaurants, shopping malls, as charitable donations, and in a ton of convenience stores. I always carry around a couple of Silver Libertys and look forward to taking them out of my pocket. The person on the other side of the counter is always impressed when you drop it into their hand. If the store is not too busy, it's a great way to talk to them about the nature of money.
I had no idea it could be this easy to switch to a different currency. I'm planning to work hard to get the word out in Texas - I want as many Liberty Merchants to accept the Liberty Dollar as possible!
"One lady was amazed..."
R. Olson, Alcoa, TN
I just went to three different places this morning. Each time I handed the cash register person a $10.00 Liberty (one troy ounce silver round). No questions asked, they just handed me change in those dreaded NON-federal NON-reserve NON-notes. One lady was amazed and put it in her pocket & put a $10 FRN from her purse into the cash register. Also for the last three days I had someone trade me a $10 FRN for a $10 Silver Liberty!
"We can make a difference!"
B. Ibarra, Austin, TX
Hey folks, Just another message about my recent use of the Liberty Dollar, especially for the Austinites out there.... Get ready to add a couple of more locations to your list to spend the Liberty Dollar at...
Thursday night at the Exxon Tigermart by IH 35 and 7th street...
A cop was talking to the girl at the register as I paid for two bottles of water... the cop immediately saw the silver and said, "What in the world is that?"
"Ten dollars in pure silver!" "Holy cow (or words to that effect)!! If I had ten dollars now I'd buy it!"
He ended up making a deal with the cashier for the silver, because she wanted it as well... I let them both have one, since I had another in the car!!
Today, Austin Liberty Dollar Users, I spent it at:
BW3's, 6th street - food and beer
24 Hour Store, 6th Street - gum and a lottery ticket (I won $2)
Solera - 4th (?) and Colorado - beer
The Solera one was great! It's a new bar/Restaurant right by the Alamo drafthouse cinema and Miguel's La Bodeca. The bartender, Pat, thought it was great... took it back to the manager who ended up buying it for himself... came out and asked me if it was real... I said it was .999 pure, just like it said... a waiter came up to look and said, "That is so cool!! We should go back to that!!"
Even waiters at upscale Mexican food restaurants know the value of silver!!
http://www.libertydollar.org, folks if you're interested!! Real money, guaranteed value!! We can make a difference!! Liberty Dollar rules!!
"Agreed to accept the Liberty Dollar from anyone riding in his cab"
C. Athanas, Austin, TX
I have one important number to add to our list: (512) 825-2325.
This number belongs to Dwayne Schmidt who operates a cab here in Austin. I recently exchanged some silver and paper so he could have samples in his cab. I also mailed him the silver labels for him to put in his cab, because he has agreed to accept the Liberty Dollar from anyone riding in his cab. I promised him that we would advertise for him.
"The COSTCO Connection"
Marcel Bendshadler, Portland, OR
My wife Susan and I were at a local COSTCO warehouse club and had made what is usually a small purchase of $128 in various food and other items. We went through the checkout and were rung up then Susan ran her ATM/Debit card through the machine, but since the card was new, she couldn't remember the new PIN! What a state we were in, she kept trying, but kept getting rejected. So, I asked cashier if they accepted "Cash" and "Travelers Checks" and was greeted in the affirmative. I pulled out $60 in Liberty Checks and the rest in ALC and was greeted by the usual looks of "What is this?"
After being "kicked upstairs" to TWO managers, one of whom calls the Liberty Dollar but it was after hours, they come back and tell me they will accept it as cash. This is my largest purchase with the Liberty Dollar to date.
"Thanks!"
M. Day, Simla, CO
Mr. Bernard Von NotHaus, sir, There is a word for people like you. That word is "patriot". I realize that in some quarters this has become akin to an insult but believe me I do not regard it so. I thank you Mr. Von NotHaus, from the bottom of my heart for your effort to restore our monetary system to "We the people". I am not a man of great means, however I will be joining the Liberty Dollar, and becoming a Liberty Associate as soon as I can collect a sufficient amount of fiat to do so. In the meantime I shall be "shouting from the rooftops" to let people know that there IS in fact a means by which we as Americans can fight an unjust system, without blood in our streets. Thank You!
"Moving this money left and right"
C. Athanas, Austin, TX
I gotta tell you, I'm moving this money left and right...Sac-N-Pac, retreat centers, students!...I'm going to start sharing it at the cafeteria lines once I get my stash from von Nothaus...
Stealing = success?
Those "success stories" relate how to work a scam that fools someone into accepting an insufficient amount of silver for payment. Stealing is not "success" in my book.
Yeah well
You're the stupid fuck that pushed Bob Barr on the Daily Paul for a couple of weeks..
I remember everything... I'm sick of this dimension now.. so get used to the truth for a while... It will be coming more frequent an with out warning..
And most of all have no fear...
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Not me
I have never said anything positive about Barr, but I have said plenty negative about him.
Dallas/ Austin
I have met Rob Gray who covers the Dallas/Austin for Liberty Dollar. You should contact him yourself. He explains the system very well. I have no complaints against him.
don't know if it's a scam or not but
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Creator_defends_illegal_Ron_Pa...
"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul
Here's my hearsay
Pete Hendrickson at Lost Horizons has mentioned the Liberty Doller several times. It is what it appears to be: an alternative, asset-based currency. If I understand correctly, the feds have seized their assets on charges of counterfeiting (ironic, isn't it?) and they are currently in a court battle trying to get their property back.
I believe Ron Paul has mentioned this case when introducing competition in currency legislation.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free. -Goethe
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free. -Goethe
I guess you might have missed it.
Okay, i didn't get down and examine the site but I can tell you that Norfed got shut down for making Ron Paul silver dollars before the primary. I am the proud owner of one myself. It was an illegal seizure and if you were holding a silver certificate from Norfed it entitled you to a stake in the lawsuit which followed and am currently unaware of current status.
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."